Can Russia survive? (Alpha +3)

  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 '13 Moderator

    Anniversary. And we all loved that game!

  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Japan’s willingness to throw away 3-5 planes to kill the Flying Tigers, in my mind, proves that they do not need an NO for killing it.  Just like we do not need NOs for taking Washington DC, Tokyo, Rome, Berlin, etc.

    For the British submarine NO (alpha 2 I believe) I’d definitely keep it limited to the North Atlantic.  Yes there were submarines in the South Atlantic, but most of the trade was between the Eastern Seaboard and England, wasn’t it?  And Submarines in the Baltic/North Seas are not exactly out raiding shipping.  I could hear arguments about submarines in the Med/Suez.

    I too don’t really like the dice rule for convoys.  A lot easier to count up 1 for surface warships, 2 for submarines and maybe 2 for planes (although I don’t really like planes doing raids either.  Planes are on patrol, wtf are they doing skimming the waterline looking for merchant ships?  Who’s protecting the carriers from attack then, tug boats??? HUMOR!)

    As for the Pacific Island NO, since so many of the islands are already NOs or just in ridiculous locations (Samoa, Line Islands, Fiji Islands for instance) asking Japan to waste time going for them seems less than optimal.  So if we add one I would say:  Midway + Wake + Solomons + Guam for +3 IPC, if all 4 of those island chains are NOT captured, then ANZAC, India and USA each get +1 IPC.  That way there is some encouragement to hit the null value islands, it’s not overwhelming income (half the cost of a submarine isn’t too huge given the shear volume of IPC spent in any given round in this game) it spreads the focus of Japan a bit and encourages historically accurate game play.  My opinion of course.

  • US NO’s are a bit jacked if you ask me.

    I’d remove the America Influence in Asia (Flip), the National Sovereignty Issues (Alaska, Aleutian, Hawaii, Line and Johnston) and the Defense Treaty & Trade Obligations (Mexico, SW Mexico, Central and West Indies) NO’s.  Thats 15 IPC less for the US.

    Instead, replace with Pacific Island Clusters:

    Control 2 of 3: Midway, Wake or Iwo Jima
    Control 2 of 3: Flip, Guam or Oki
    Control 2 of 3: Johnston, Line or Caroline

    Each would be worth 5 NPC NO for either the US or Japan, whoever controls 2 of the 3.

    The US would most easily control the Johnston, Caroline and Line section indicating supply support to ANZAC.  It would create a lynchpin fight over Midway and Wake and the Flip / Guam would be a mostly Japan controlled NO.  So US gets 1 easily controlled, Japan the other, and the third is a see-saw.

    If Japan just took Flip, like many J1 moves include, the US would get 10 IPC, Japan 5.  Alternatively, Japan could take both Flip and Midway, giving Japan 10 IPC in bonuses, and the US only 5 from these NO.  I don’t think its a terrible imbalance, but provides a significant incentive for Japan to aggressively fight the US for control of the Pacific - which the current NO’s do nothing for.

  • Can we keep this about Russia instead about the unnecessary gimping of the US?

  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator


    Can we keep this about Russia instead about the unnecessary gimping of the US?

    I feel the US was made quite so ridiculously over powered primarily due to American pride felt by the creator and the main testing group.  If you want my honest opinion.

    If I were to have made this game, Russia would be the world’s super power with the US coming in second (they wouldn’t be quite so far apart as they are now, but the Russians certainly would be superior.)

    For instance, I think Russia’s short 7 or 8 armored units, at least 1 but probably 2 in the far eastern territories and about half a dozen on the German front.  Russia had a peace accord with Germany, but they were not complete idiots, they were using that time to prep for their own wars, hell, for part of that time it was taking the land Germany said they could take without initiating a war.

    Russia’s probably short a couple tactical bombers too.  I wouldn’t say their fighters were really FIGHTERS, they were more flying tanks.  So I’d take the fighters out and replace them with +3 tactical bombers.

    Ukraine (each part) should be at least as valuable as Romania and Hungary, especially for the Russians as this is their prime ground for farming.  So I would up these to 3 IPC each.  Maybe 4 IPC for S. Ukraine.  Stalingrad/Leningrad also should be worth 3 IPC each.  (Yes, I am bumping up land value, Russia’s historically been super underpaid in these games it’s ridiculous.  I attribute this to fear of communism felt by the game creator and his testing team.  Of course, I could be wrong, it’s just how I feel things are being seen, I could be wrong.  They could just hate Russia for some other reason…)

    Norway and Finland should be MONDO national objectives for Russia.  I mean these two territories would be on par with the capture of Berlin.  Long history of bad blood for the Russians here going all the way back to before the Great Khan invaded and conquered the Russian princes.  +10 IPC for control of Norway and Finland if Karelia, Novgorod (Leningrad) and Vyborg are held by the Russians.

    Yes, my Russian heritage is effecting my recommendations.  That’s kind of the point, I am demonstrating that if you allow your personal bias t effect your decisions, you end up with a ridiculously over powered United States, like what we have now.  Is it “unnecessary” to remove the American NO or continental US?  No.  Emphatically no.  I argue the converse, it is not only necessary but should have been done back when I first asked for it to be done in Alpha 2!  Any NO that cannot be taken away in any given game should not be an NO.  That’s like saying I get more money for preventing myself from losing the $5 in my purse!  Uhm, yea I think I can keep my $5 if it means you’ll give me $10 a week until such time as I lose the original $5!

  • Well, I did not ask for an opinion I asked for people to stay on topic :).  Btw, the whole reason why US is rich and USSR is poor is for game balance.  The US has the largest income, but takes the longest to make a difference because of how far away it is from the fight and how much navy it needs to buy to get it’s foot in the door.

  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    That is as valid an opinion as mine.  :evil:

    That’s okay, I would also increase the number of German submarines on the board and put some convoy zones out in the mid North Atlantic that hurt US Economy (and UK Economy)

    But then, if we implemented my changes, the Germans would need a significant bid again probably.  So yea, in the case of game balance, realism does need to take a back seat (that is not to say forget it completely!)

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