16L G40 Talleyrand19(Axis) vs CDS(Allies+22)

[Talleyrand19]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 3

Purchase Units - Japanese
            Japanese buy 2 armour, 1 carrier, 1 fighter and 1 mech_infantry; Remaining resources: 6 SuicideAttackTokens; 0 PUs;

Politics - Japanese
            Japanese takes Political Action: Political Action Japanese To War With Americans
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Americans: Changing Relationship for Japanese and Americans from Neutrality to War
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Americans: Changing Relationship for Chinese and Americans from Neutrality to Allied
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Americans: Changing Relationship for British and Americans from Neutrality to Allied
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Americans: Changing Relationship for UK_Pacific and Americans from Neutrality to Allied
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Americans: Changing Relationship for ANZAC and Americans from Neutrality to Allied
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Americans: Changing Relationship for Americans and French from Neutrality to Allied
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Americans: Changing Relationship for Americans and Dutch from Neutrality to Friendly
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Americans: Changing Relationship for Americans and Neutral_Allies from Neutrality to Friendly_Neutral
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Americans: Changing Relationship for Americans and Neutral_Axis from Neutrality to Unfriendly_Neutral
            Japanese takes Political Action: Political Action Japanese To War With British And ANZAC
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With British And ANZAC: Changing Relationship for Japanese and British from Neutrality to War
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With British And ANZAC: Changing Relationship for Japanese and UK_Pacific from Neutrality to War
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With British And ANZAC: Changing Relationship for Japanese and ANZAC from Neutrality to War
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With British And ANZAC: Changing Relationship for Japanese and Dutch from Neutrality to War
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With British And ANZAC: Changing Relationship for Chinese and British from Neutrality to Allied
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With British And ANZAC: Changing Relationship for Chinese and UK_Pacific from Concordant to Allied
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With British And ANZAC: Changing Relationship for Chinese and ANZAC from Neutrality to Allied
                Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With British And ANZAC: Changing Relationship for Chinese and Dutch from Neutrality to Friendly
            Trigger Russians Allied Americans 5: Changing Relationship for Russians and Americans from Neutrality to Allied

Combat Move - Japanese
            Trigger Japanese Unrestricted Movement: Setting movementRestrictionTerritories cleared  for rulesAttatchment attached to Japanese
            1 infantry moved from Suiyuyan to Kansu
                  Japanese take Kansu from Chinese
            1 infantry moved from Hopei to Kweichow
            1 artillery moved from Hopei to Kweichow
            1 artillery moved from Anhwe to Kweichow
            6 infantry moved from Anhwe to Kweichow
            1 mech_infantry moved from Suiyuyan to Kweichow
            2 armour moved from Kiangsu to Kweichow
            1 mech_infantry moved from Kiangsu to Kweichow
            2 infantry moved from Siam to French Indo China
                  Japanese take French Indo China from French
            1 fighter moved from 36 Sea Zone to 44 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from 36 Sea Zone to 45 Sea Zone
            3 infantry moved from Kwangsi to 36 Sea Zone
            3 infantry and 2 transports moved from 36 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            3 infantry moved from 35 Sea Zone to Philippines
            1 tactical_bomber moved from 36 Sea Zone to Philippines
            1 fighter and 2 tactical_bombers moved from 36 Sea Zone to Philippines
            5 infantry moved from Hunan to Yunnan
            2 artilleries moved from Hunan to Yunnan
            4 infantry moved from Kwangsi to Yunnan
            3 artilleries moved from Kwangsi to Yunnan
            1 armour moved from Kwangsi to Yunnan
            4 tactical_bombers moved from Kwangsi to Kweichow
            2 bombers moved from Kwangsi to 36 Sea Zone
            3 destroyers moved from 36 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            1 battleship moved from 36 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            1 cruiser moved from 36 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            3 carriers moved from 36 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            3 transports moved from 36 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone

Combat - Japanese
            Battle in 35 Sea Zone
                Japanese attack with 2 battleships, 3 carriers, 2 cruisers, 4 destroyers, 1 submarine and 5 transports
                Americans defend with 1 destroyer
                Japanese win with 2 battleships, 3 carriers, 2 cruisers, 4 destroyers, 1 submarine and 5 transports remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
                Casualties for Americans: 1 destroyer
            Battle in Philippines
                Japanese attack with 1 fighter, 3 infantry and 3 tactical_bombers
                Americans defend with 1 airfield, 1 harbour and 2 infantry
                Japanese win, taking Philippines from Americans with 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 3 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Americans: 2 infantry
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry
            Battle in 36 Sea Zone
                Japanese attack with 2 bombers and 1 submarine
                British defend with 1 destroyer
                Japanese win, taking 36 Sea Zone from Neutral with 2 bombers and 1 submarine remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
                Casualties for British: 1 destroyer
            Battle in 44 Sea Zone
                Japanese attack with 1 fighter
                British defend with 1 transport
                Japanese win with 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
                Casualties for British: 1 transport
            Battle in 45 Sea Zone
                Japanese attack with 1 fighter
                ANZAC defend with 1 transport
                Japanese win with 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
                Casualties for ANZAC: 1 transport
            Battle in Kweichow
                Japanese attack with 2 armour, 2 artilleries, 7 infantry, 2 mech_infantrys and 4 tactical_bombers
                Chinese defend with 3 infantry
                Japanese win, taking Kweichow from Chinese with 2 armour, 2 artilleries, 5 infantry, 2 mech_infantrys and 4 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Chinese: 3 infantry
                Casualties for Japanese: 2 infantry
            Battle in Yunnan
                Japanese attack with 1 armour, 5 artilleries and 9 infantry
                Chinese defend with 1 infantry
                Japanese win, taking Yunnan from Chinese with 1 armour, 5 artilleries and 8 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for Chinese: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry

Non Combat Move - Japanese
            3 fighters moved from Kwangsi to 6 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from 44 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from 45 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Philippines to 35 Sea Zone
            3 tactical_bombers moved from Philippines to 35 Sea Zone
            2 bombers moved from 36 Sea Zone to Japan
            3 fighters moved from Kwangsi to Kiangsu
            1 destroyer moved from 6 Sea Zone to 16 Sea Zone
            1 aaGun moved from Anhwe to Kiangsu
            4 tactical_bombers moved from Kweichow to Kiangsu

Place Units - Japanese
            1 carrier and 1 fighter placed in 6 Sea Zone
            2 armour and 1 mech_infantry placed in Kiangsu

Turn Complete - Japanese
            Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 1
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 37 Sea Zone. Rolls: 3
            Japanese collect 37 PUs (1 lost to blockades); end with 37 PUs total

[cds]

I dont understand how it is possible, but you cant load transports in a hostile seazone. I was looking at politics to be sure, seeing you only attacked philipines, and I thought thats how you managed to load the transports. But I saw that uk/anzac was also in war, and that means no loading of transports. So philipines should still be american. Perhaps I am mistaken, but reasonably sure about this. Your free to ask anyone about this.

[Talleyrand19]

I was going by the rule that ships can leave a hostile sea zone during their combat move phase, which is in the rulebook…however if a loaded transport cannot be part of this then I have to redo my turn entirely, it obviously changes what I would have done

[Talleyrand19]

I’m finding some reading that states I actually can do it, so I’m not sure. I put a question up on the forums to find out the answer. If I am not allowed to do that, then I will replay the Japanese turn.

[Talleyrand19]

Found this here…sounds like it IS a loophole and what I did was legal. But we can still wait to see what some people say.

http://www.wizards.com/\AvalonHill\rules\AA Pacific 1940 FAQ_VER1.pdf

“Important exception � During the combat movement phase following the announced declaration of war,
transports already in sea zones that have just become hostile may be loaded in those sea zones (but not
in other hostile sea zones). This may occur only during the first Combat Move phase following the
announced declaration of war. Once that initial combat movement phase is over, normal transport
loading restrictions apply.”

[cds]

:-D

The rule of leaving a hostile seazone and getting units elsewhere is possible, but you didnt had units nearby, so it was only possible to load them at kwangsi. Also you didnt have enough movement to leave the seazone and come back and move again. So its impossible to load them from kwangsi in my opinion. The other rule you are mentioning, Ive never heard of. Lets find out what the rules are, before continue.

[Talleyrand19]

Read page 11, in the declaring of war section, it says you can load transports that turn as the one exception to the normal rules. Looks like it is allowed.

[Talleyrand19]

I should’ve mentioned it’s page 11 of Pacific rules, 2nd ed*

[cds]

Its very strange but I have never heard of this rule before, since when does this rule exist. I have posted in the same topic as you did, not questioning your point, but want to have some idea of what I am up against if they start changing rules. I still believe it shouldnt be possible to load or unload them, without doing battle. Think its a strange exception, because like someone else already mentions in the topic you can by pass this by pre loading (keep units on board of trn). Its a matter of planning, but this is just weird because it eliminates the possibilities for Allies by preventing you from attacking this way. Hope you see my point.

[Talleyrand19]

By preloading it makes my plan pretty obvious, so you can look at it both ways…I look at it as you load up, declare war, and sail away in one motion…we can see if we get a few more responses.

[Talleyrand19]

It’s also on page 12 of the Europe rules as an exception.

[cds]

@Talleyrand19:

By preloading it makes my plan pretty obvious, so you can look at it both ways…I look at it as you load up, declare war, and sail away in one motion…we can see if we get a few more responses.

Like its not obvious what you are going to do  :-o  :wink: Clearly with transports you are going to attempt amphibious landings, where that doesnt matter. Its just that this has always been a nice way to prevent someone from making attacks if the destroyer was there. Ill ask a moderator what he knows about this.

[cds]

Well this is just bad, because if I had known this rule excisted then I would have perhaps done things different in r2 with UK. I couldnt declare war because I wanted my destroyer in your seazone, so you couldnt load transports. I need to think about things some more now, because its clear that this changes things enormously.

[Talleyrand19]

yeah I hear ya…we have two options really, start the game over or keep playing from my last Japan move…it is a weird loophole to the normal rules but it is in the rulebook…it’s your call if you want to start over or keep going, I don’t care either way…

I know this rule would’ve changed a lot of your earlier moves which would change pretty much everything, that’s why starting over can be an option. Like I said, it’s up to you…let me know.

[Talleyrand19]

Bump #1

[cds]

Chill out on the bump please, told you i was thinking about it. Also stuff to take care off in real life, not only AA is prio 1.

[Talleyrand19]

I bumped once cause you hadn’t said anything in several days and then answered after I bumped, relax