Dreadnoughts - National Advantage for Japan

[B.AnderssonGameMaster]

@Kaladesh:

i admire your energy in providing us with your ideas but personally i think your latest ideas are a bit too powerful in my opinion. i do not want to say that they are destabilizing the game, but i think that those ideas are that strong, i can’t judge their impact on the game without testing it a couple of times. as i said before i do not have that much time to play (unfortunately) but i want to encourage you to keep up with your ideas. nevertheless i will state my opinion in a critical way and that is not because i do not like your ideas, but i want to make you think about it in order not to put up some things that will become not as good as your first ideas (and i guess one would realize that after at least a couple of games)
so my objections are just to tweak your ideas and to make you look at it from a different point of view.

so with this bbs. yes they are quite expensive, but if japans has even more than its 2 starting bbs i fear us won’t stand a chance against japan in the pacific. maybe this advantage might favour the axis too much if used right. the three hit bb sounds best for me. not to strong, but strong enought to make a difference in the pacific … (even with your starting bbs) thus allowing japan to spend more ipc in asia.

Three hit BBs is an awesome advantage and even stronger than the 5/5 advantage;

5/5 BBs
The increased effectiveness in combat for a 5/5 BB is that it stands a 17 % chance better to hit something that at least cost 8 IPCs (6 IPCs if Liberty Ship Program) and for at least two cycles of combat. If we simplify it one can say that’s worth some 2 times (can take two hits) 1/6 times 8 IPCs, and that is 2,7 IPCs (2 IPCs if Liberty Ship Program) in additional damage caused.

3 hit BB vs 5/5 BB
In the case of a 3 hit BB one can say it might save a casualty worth at least 8 IPCs, which in turn can fire one additional time on a 1 (at least)! That’s worth some 8 IPCs saved and some additional 1,3 IPCs (1/6 * 8 IPCs) (or 1 IPC if transport purchased with Liberty Ship Program).

I like the idea of 3 hit BBs; maybe I should remake this poll and include this variant! :wink:

Thank you for sharing your intellectual capacity! What do think about the kamikaze poll I just wrote???

[Dreadnaught]

Do I spell my name wrong? Ehh…

IMO any units that hit on 5 should be forbidden! I use 4 as a maximum and to give units more power I suggest one to use the opening fire! My vote is on variant 1!

By the way Mr. A, thank you for sharing your splending ideas! :wink:

[B.AnderssonGameMaster]

@Dreadnaught:

Do I spell my name wrong? Ehh…

IMO any units that hit on 5 should be forbidden! I use 4 as a maximum and to give units more power I suggest one to use the opening fire! My vote is on variant 1!

By the way Mr. A, thank you for sharing your splending ideas! :wink:

If you ment Dreadnought, then you are wrong!

Well, since the battle board does not have a square for 5’s I agree about no 5 hits should be allowed! But then one does not use the hole register of the possible outcomes of the dice that will create a bigger variety in the rules! However, variant 1 is a good one! And if you vote in the Heavy Tank thread then I suggests that you go for No3! :wink:

[MuthaRussia]

@B.:

It might seem very powerful, but how many battleships will Japan buy in a game! And if US have Liberty Ship Program and Lend Lease Program it will give US and his Allies cheap cannon fodder.

4. Dreadnoughts (variant 1)
Dreadnoughts or leviathans like Yamato and Musashi were the largest and most powerful battelships the world has ever seen.
Your battelships have a first-strike capability (both attack and defense qualify). This capability is for the first round only. Any casualties are destroyed and removed from play, with no chance to counter-attack (it does not disrupt the special ability of a submarine).

4. Dreadnoughts (variant 2)
Dreadnoughts or leviathans like Yamato and Musashi were the largest and most powerful battleships the world has ever seen.
Your battleships attack and defend on a 5.

4. Dreadnoughts (variant 3)
Dreadnoughts or leviathans like Yamato and Musashi were the largest and most powerful battleships the world has ever seen.
Your battleships can take three hits. Use control markers to keep track on the hits.

Its a good idea, but Japan has a powerful enough navy, I think this would make the game uneven! :-?

[B.AnderssonGameMaster]

@MuthaRussia:

Its a good idea, but Japan has a powerful enough navy, I think this would make the game uneven! :-?

Well, it is an advantage and I really would like to know what you mean with a “powerful enough” in statistics!

However I think you are wrong, since any of these wont be something big! To have any of these BB variants of mine wont be more than having any extra DDs. An extra DD is worth more than any of these variants, it would be like having them all at the same time. Even a submarine would be more. And finally, how many BBs do you think Japan can afford! This would be enough to explain why any of these advantages wont break game balance at all! :wink:

You could also compare it to some other advantages that I found even more powerful like Superfortresses! :wink:

By the way, what did you vote MuthaRussia?

[Linkon]

You can balance the 3-hits by allowing attacking, not defending subs hits against the Dreadnaughts to count double.

As always, the defender should pick where to allocate hits.

Realistically, the range of their guns scared away the Allied surface ships.

Superior US intel often prevented these Japanese monsters from finding their prey, so it would be safe to say that they were not effectively used in attack. Superior USN air power allowed us to pick the battles where we finally sunk them.

The Japs developed pellet spraying shot for their big guns, but I think the regular hull-mounted AA’s were better against air. I think they also had other specialized shore bombardment shells, but by then, they were defending rather than conducting beach landings.

[B.AnderssonGameMaster]

@Linkon:

You can balance the 3-hits by allowing attacking, not defending subs hits against the Dreadnaughts to count double.

Too complicated!

@Linkon:

Realistically, the range of their guns scared away the Allied surface ships.

Superior US intel often prevented these Japanese monsters from finding their prey, so it would be safe to say that they were not effectively used in attack. Superior USN air power allowed us to pick the battles where we finally sunk them.

If US have LRA and a lot of aircraft they may be able to avoid ANY major naval combats with any Japanese Dreadnoughts and US ships. The opening fire variant is not just realistic, but also balanced! So you actually says that you prefer the opening fire variant! I agree with you that it is the most realistic and at the same time it is balanced!!! :wink:

[DukeMikeIII]

id have to say no3 - the yamato was very big but not much more powerful that the america battleships - as to the american ships had just as many 18in gun as the yamato had 18.1in guns - and the yamato took some work to sink but not even nearly as much as the bismark - and the yamato was just as vulnerable to air attack as anything else - though in my game the Jap ships just have +1 defense, but i also have advantages to the lesser Jap ships and fighters

Plus there was only two Yamato class battleships ever built - but that can be changed by your strat

[Guerrilla Guy]

I vote 2… yeah it’s powerful but one would overwhelm alto of solo allied units and 3 would make them invincible… possibly attack at 5 and don’t add the defense roll…

GG

[Jennifer]

I vote 3 hit BBs and attack/defend at 5 but cost 54 IPCs. (You can repair damage at 18 IPCs per pip/dmg point)

[B.AnderssonGameMaster]

@Jennifer:

I vote 3 hit BBs and attack/defend at 5 but cost 54 IPCs. (You can repair damage at 18 IPCs per pip/dmg point)

I could not possibly think anyone would buy a BB to a cost of 54 IPCs, and why 54!? By the way it is too complicated! :-?

[Amon-Sul]

My opinion is that it should be 2nd variant.

the 3rd one is simply too powerful and the first one is really good to.

2nd one isnt that strong it increases battleships power to 5 but its just on 1

so battleship from 4 hits on 6 tries now has 5 six from 6 tries

i dont say it doesnt worth anything but its very weak compering to the oders

[B.AnderssonGameMaster]

@Amon-Sul:

My opinion is that it should be 2nd variant.

the 3rd one is simply too powerful and the first one is really good to.

2nd one isnt that strong it increases battleships power to 5 but its just on 1

so battleship from 4 hits on 6 tries now has 5 six from 6 tries

i dont say it doesnt worth anything but its very weak compering to the oders

Well Amon-Sul, if you think all variants are weak, what other NAs do you compare it to? At the same time you say variant 3 is too powerful and mention that variant 1 i really good! Why not variant 1? Hmmm… confused! :-?

[whoman69]

Yamamoto never made it to fight against the American fleet. For a leviathan, it sure sunk quickly. Battleships were an idea whose time had passed by the time the war came. Airpower ruled in the Pacific.

[AgentOrange]

Why not have it so that they hit on a five on just the first round, whether attacking, defending, or doing shore bombardment? For plain atk/def, I don’t know about the whole first strike deal, but to tell the truth, I’m happy with the naval setup as is anyway.

[B.AnderssonGameMaster]

Variant 3 will make subs more or less useless against a Japanese fleet with at least one BB. So I think it is better to not mess up too much with the rules and vote for variant 2 or 1. In plain english, it is not worth fixing a rule that is supposed to fix another one. Things can get too complicated if one does! :wink: