Japan and Industrial Centers



  • When and where do you want to build them?  Too many and/or too soon, you’ve hurt yourself at the bank.  Too few and your transports are even more nonexpendable.



  • @Scalenex:

    When and where do you want to build them?  Too many and/or too soon, you’ve hurt yourself at the bank.  Too few and your transports are even more nonexpendable.

    A Japan IC at India is gold.  Manchuria, Kwangtung, and French Indochina are all servicable by Japanese transports operating from Japan.  However, it takes two Japanese transports to chain to India, and India is a good location for reinforcing Germany in its attack on Caucasus (or even producing units to transport to India with devoted transports set aside for that purpose).

    Generally, I will not build Japanese ICs on J1.  I build transports on J1 to empty the islands.  Often, I will build one or two transports on J2 as well to bring me up to 5-6 transports.  If I see a US1 Pacific build, transports 4 and 5 (and 6 if applicable) are used early to empty islands, and later for naval fodder.  (I can probably only handle filling three transports later on considering the navy and air I’ll want to buy).  If I see a US1 Atlantic build, I build 6 transports, use 4 to transport from Japan, 1 to transport from nearby islands, 1 to pick up infantry from far islands and possibly attack Hawaii/New Zealand/Australia/Africa (roughly in that order).  By the time J3 rolls around, you can start thinking about saving a few IPCs and cracking India and putting an IC there.  Often you won’t quite be able to handle India early, but J4 is a good time - if it looks like you can’t swing it, drop an IC in French Indochina instead.

    Early on, you want transports, so you can’t produce over 8 units.  Later on, you want infantry, so you can press sustainedly on Russia - you probably want a few artillery and/or tanks in the mix.  But you will start building up some IPCs in the bank, while you are still producing 8 ground units a turn; that’s when you want to start saving for an IC.  Note that although tanks are pretty good, you should probably deliberately avoid tanks early - late game tanks can catch up to early game infantry/artillery.



  • 8-)
    I agree 90% with you NPB.
    Only differance with my strategy is to build my first of two complexes in FIC on J3. followed by my second complex in Manchuria on J4.
    India has proved to be too risky if the USA goes all out in the Africa Shuck-shuck, so I rarely put that factory in anymore. Also, I’ve had Russian players go after it with left over UK forces if they have been doing well in Eastern Europe.
    Of course if the allies go after Japan first, then building complxes is not on my agenda until I can either neutralize or destroy the allied fleets. 😉



  • @Crazy:

    8-)
    I agree 90% with you NPB.
    Only differance with my strategy is to build my first of two complexes in FIC on J3. followed by my second complex in Manchuria on J4.
    India has proved to be too risky if the USA goes all out in the Africa Shuck-shuck, so I rarely put that factory in anymore. Also, I’ve had Russian players go after it with left over UK forces if they have been doing well in Eastern Europe.
    Of course if the allies go after Japan first, then building complxes is not on my agenda until I can either neutralize or destroy the allied fleets. 😉

    Mm, yeah.  If America has pushed up through Africa, an India IC may be vulnerable to attack.  So I suppose I should amend my earlier post to “An India IC is great IF you don’t have to worry about a boatload of US Marines coming up in your base.”

    Generally, I should add, players will only be able to get an early - or even late - India IC BOTH through a strong strategy and a little luck.  That is to say, even if your strategy is totally badass, it can still fail to crack India early; there’s too many ways for the Allies to bounce back and forth what with UK air plus infantry in the area, Russian reinforcements, and US coming in through Africa.

    Practically speaking, I see a French Indochina IC in more games than I do India ICs.



  • In the games we have been playing so far (just started playing) we’ve played with all special rules enabled, which means UK gets a colonial garrison which pretty much always gets placed on India.  It’s been a bad deal for Japan so far because they always get drawn off so much fighting a prolonged war over indochina with the British.  So if that’s the case #1 priority, maybe even more important than pearl harbour, is taking India. Then you have an IC in an excellent position to start drawing Russian support away from the caucus.

    Course with all special rules UK has that stupid radar which makes it kind of tough…



  • Japan is my fav nation to play. Revised i am still working on, it’s such a diffrent game from the last version that i got some bugs to work out in my strat. i have not found weather to go with the IC or not on main land early. but i do know one thing, some times UK makes the call with India early and i have never minded other then when it that darn garison, that slows me down a lot.
    i think though, most of the time it depends on the situation. if the allies are going full blown for Germany (KGF) then i think it a good idea to do first turn to just get the troop flow faster on main land early. as for location, it depends on situation. FIC is good, but only so long as it’s safe to do. but not so safe that India can just be walked into, then you might as well wait and put it in India if it is a safe move.
    too much relies on the situation. you need to be able to make the call if it meets critearia.
    1: are the allies gunning for you first? if so, then it’s a bad idea.
    2: is it economical in your stratagy?
    3: is it safe? you don’t want to build it for the allies after all.


  • Moderator

    I agree with the waiting on J1 people.  I’ll buy 3 trns on J1 and look for an IC on J2 which pretty much means I would have had to earn about 32-33 on J1 (take Chi and Bury).  That way you can still use all trns and place the IC.  But I also don’t have a problem with a 1 trn and 7 land unit buy on J2 and waiting until J3 for the IC.

    I’ll usually place my first one in Man or Fic depending on the game setup.

    Like the others have mentioned I’m usually a bit hesitant to place in India since it could be threatened with armor from Cauc and if it is bought too early it locks you into a strong southern push.  So when I do buy an Indian IC it is usually my third and a little later in the game when I just need something extra to finish off the push on Cauc and I was able to make sure I could protect it.



  • I usal do 3 tranny on J1

    if i hold india round 2 il purcase 2 ic, 1 for india and 1 for FI. ore else just 1 FI and as soon as posible for india. Then il purcase 12 units a round, and make my main push for persia.



  • A Japanese IC in Egypt would be intreseting( especially with the battleships and carriers in teh med) but usalully the only place i put an IC is in India. I try to make it fall as soon as possible then put one there but if India holds out, i put in FIC very very reluctantly.

    edit: anyone every put an IC in egypt and sent their navy into the med?



  • Japan is also my favorite nation to play (hence my username) because it offers the most flexibility in the game. In classic I often went with an IC in Manchuria, but in revised I almost never build an IC. I kinda started to see the wisdom in what peeps had often said about it taking a couple turns to get an IC going versus transports. In many close games where Japan’s final thrust might be just one turn ahead of… or one turn behind Russia for the win those extra turns started to really make a difference. So anymore I favor the quick deployment and flexibility offered by good 'ol transports. Much like with the UK, our gaming group doesn’t see ICs built as Japan very often anymore unless it’s late in the game and Japan is having a tough time placing all their IPCs usefully. ~ZP


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    Cyan:

    Yea, Mollari and I like to put British Industrials in Egypt when Africa is good and secure and Germany’s gone into 100% defense mode.  It’s a good way to A) stop Japan from assaulting Egypt around your stacks and B) put British units on the ground in a useful spot.


    Quothe the US Marine after crossing the Sahara, storming the Nile Valley and plowing through the middle east: “All your base are belong to us!”



  • @Cmdr:

    Cyan:

    Yea, Mollari and I like to put British Industrials in Egypt when Africa is good and secure and Germany’s gone into 100% defense mode.  It’s a good way to A) stop Japan from assaulting Egypt around your stacks and B) put British units on the ground in a useful spot.


    Quothe the US Marine after crossing the Sahara, storming the Nile Valley and plowing through the middle east: “All your base are belong to us!”

    I meant a Japanese IC in egypt. that way the can put use of thier nacvy and intervine in teh Med, secure africa and put pressure on the caucuses.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    Nah, if you are big enough to put a Japanese IC in Egypt, you already won the game.



  • I prefer transports too for Japan - 5-7 in all. One factory usually in French Indochina T4 or 5… and finally one in Novosibirsk when enough Japs to survive there - for the final siege of Moscow. 3 tanks 2 turns away are nothing like 2 arty right next to the target.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    With Japan, I like 8 transports, 2 Industrial Centers, 2 Carriers, 3 Battleships and a destroyer or two.

    Allows me a lot of latitude in what I do with my fleet.  I can even run around Africa and chase the Americans out forcing England and America to consolidate for a while and giving Germany a break.



  • I used to shun the J1 Complex, but I’ve since changed my outlook. I still prefer a 4 tran buy (2 IPC from bid of course), but the complex offers it’s own charm.

    The allies generally stall the Japanese with the starting units in Asia, or even pull some back to go after the Germans. My mission with the Japanese is to break the allied lines as fast as possible, earning maximum cash from the Russians. Japan has an entire airforce to do this with, and can generally use the two battleships for the purchase as well.

    Of the three routes across Asia the North is the quickest, and takes Russian income. It requires defense of Novo by the Russians.

    The Chinese route is more difficult (an extra territory to Novo), setting you back minimum one round. Defence for Russians is again Novo, but you may get the chance to trade Kaz as a bonus.

    Indian route is the longest, and offers no assault on Russian income. It is the easiest to protect with minimal force (Bombards) provided you keep fleet in the area. Russian defence is from Cauc, where they’ll likely be anyway (German threat). It is also the easiest for the allies to provide support against.

    You’re going to build a complex regardless by J3, and by placing on J1 you are locking in part of your strategy quite early. Indian route gains more long game reward (near shuttle to Africa) that will aid a match you are trying to win by outproducing the opponent (pulling in more IPC). It puts the least pressure on the allies in early game.

    I’ll finally get to the point. Placing the IC J1 with a 2 Tra build allows you to place 2 or 3 extra arm on the mainland J2, meaning they can reach Sink J3 from any starting territory, and Yakut if you place in Manchuria. This gives you maximum power for your J3 assault to break whichever stack you wish, not just the attack power of the tank, but the necessary fodder to allow you to bring your air support for the kills you seek. 3 or 4 Armor is significant. The best you can do with a 3 Tra 1 Arm build is 2 Arm, and the 4 Tra build offers only your starting unit.

    Is committing to a complex placement J1 worth it for the one-time bonus deadzoning/attack/suicide J3? I believe it is if you plan to push 11 units across either Yakut or China to Russia as fast as you can. If you plan to take the Indian route, I’d say probably not.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    Well, I can’t really comment other then to say the only reason you currently seem to be working is because my Russians have been inept in battle. 😛

    However, generally speaking, Ukraine + Persia is the way to go.  Threaten the 1-2 punch on Caucasus before the Allies can move in.  I’ve been going slow, cause I just don’t much care this year.  But normally, I’d have stacks of 12-14 units rolling through Persia for America by now with another 8 units a round from England.  That’s why India is a better location for the IC then going North.



  • Well, for our current game Jen Japan’s success J1 (no losses in China, which is American ineptness not Russian) made the Armor unnecessary, so my Complex did nothing for me. Using transports and adding the complex later would have no difference in result. As I recall J2 Russians shot average in Sink, and wiped me in Yakut: The success had nothing to do with poor shooting by Russians, and everything to do with so few Russians being there; The rest ran away to the Germans. Even when I moved past where the trenches should have been drawn, the Russians still refused to turn around and fight. An extra 2 Inf in China is all the +luck I’ve had for Japan, Russia needs to defend her own borders!


Log in to reply
 

Suggested Topics

  • 72
  • 30
  • 2
  • 23
  • 13
  • 26
  • 24
  • 18
I Will Never Grow Up Games
Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures
Dean's Army Guys

50
Online

13.7k
Users

34.1k
Topics

1.3m
Posts