New Tax System, how would you do it?


  • The wealthy often know or learn how to play the $ game(e.g., Kennedy’s.)
    Typically after three generations they don’t pass this wisdom on.
    Companies know how to play the game, too. But, again after a certain time, technology, war, etc., most of them fail or become a minor player.
    Politicians also know how to play the game. Yet it seems that this wisdom is also lost after a few generations.
    For example, Gov. Taft of Ohio is the great grand whatever of President Taft. Now the current Taft became governor of Ohio, but has shown, through the handling of the Ohio state budget, that he is a mediocre politician. I could have told you that before he was elected Gov. the first time. :cry:


  • @BigBlocky:

    Beneficial monopolies? Ummm, I doubt there are many examples and NO examples were this behaviour lasted long. People point out the Microsoft is a beneficial monopoly…… Beneficial? Only to MS shareholders, ask the shareholders of pret near any other software competitor.

    How is a $400 tax (MS OS and basic software) or $1000 tax (MS OS and MS Office) on a $500 computer good for any business but MS? MS is stagnent so they come up with new ways for you to pay for what you thought you already owned.

    You buy a new computer with windows… you don’t own windows… If you sell the computer you can’t include windows by the terms of the contract you accepted by opening the shrinkwrap plastic in order to read the contract (nice how that works eh…). Hell, if you buy a new computer you can’t even use the windows from your old computer, if you do you are a software PIRATE and a threat to western civilization… snickers.

    MS has made and still tries to make companies sign contracts that state they must purchase a copy of windows for EVERY computer they sell regards of what OS actually shipped with it… Hey, nobody puts a gun to Dell’s head, if they don’t like it they can ship all their dells with say Dr. Dos or Beos or maybe even Solaris or something…

    Name one good monopoly and I’ll show you a company that prevents innovation and spends lots of money on lobbyists…

    BB

    gets down off his soap box…

    The United States Postal Service.


  • Couldn’t just qoute his last major line, could you!! :roll:


  • Deviant:Scripter Do you realize how much wealth the top 1% owns in this country?? Almost half!! between 40%-45% depending on who you hear it from. What will happen when they own 90% and leave the rest of us crumbs?? I’ll tell you what will hapen. Tyranny. Then revolution. The rich can’t keep grabbing all the wealth and leave us with nothing and expect us not to do something about. I have some problems with Marxist thinking but Karl Marx did have point. Captialism will collapse in on itself if it contunies to keep getting greeder and greeder!!!

    And for monoplys picking the U.S. postal service is a bad choice, the only reason they still around is mainly cause of letters. The day U.P.S. can do letters the postal service is in trouble!


  • What will happen when they own 90% and leave the rest of us crumbs??

    What is your source?
    Who is saying that they will ever own 90% of the wealth??

    Do you realize that the MAJORITY of wealthy people in this country today, EARNED their wealth throughout their lifetime? Contrary to what socialists would have you believe, most people did not inherit their wealth, but rather they EARNED it.

    Now, back to the “death tax.” :wink:
    1.) The existence of the estate tax this century has reduced the stock of capital in the economy by approximately $497 billion, or 3.2 percent.

    2.) The Death tax is the #1 reason that families and businesses GO BROKE! That’s according to the Joint Economic Committee (United States Congress, 1998)

    3.) http://www.house.gov/jec/fiscal/tx-grwth/estattax/estattax.htm


  • Deviant:Scripter:

    The US post office is hardly a monopoly, UPS and Fedex ring a bell? Moreover, it’s government so is hardly vicious against competition. I doubt the US post office makes a profit, even if it did at what expense. Just because a monopoly earns a buck doesn’t mean it’s good. It means better hands don’t get a chance to work on the problem.

    BB


  • You’re right Blocky, I’m sorry it’s a crime to be successful in this country…


  • Get rid of the income tax. That will solve all the problems, especially the debate about which is better a progressive or flat income tax. It won’t happen at the Federal level because the government spends too much damn money.


  • @Deviant:Scripter:

    Name one good monopoly and I’ll show you a company that prevents innovation and spends lots of money on lobbyists……

    The United States Postal Service.

    Is that a privately owned company or a gov’t owned one?
    If it was the second… then you surely would love a gov’t run monopolistic heatlh insurance etc. (there is this notion of “state monopoly capitalism” in the solcialistic theories).


  • @Yanny:

    Because you already own part of that company. The company has already made the money. Now, they simply are giving out money to the owners of a company.

    Ok, this reasoning says it should not be taxed.

    Your not working for the company, you are the company. Any money received still counts towards your total income earned for the year, it just isnt taxed.

    This last sentence i don’t understand. So, it is income, but not taxed as income? Then it is only fair that it is taxed before (btw, are the tax rates for dividends lower than for money earned by work? i have no idea, but i would guess: yes, they are lower.)


  • @BB:

    The US post office is hardly a monopoly, UPS and Fedex ring a bell? Moreover, it’s government so is hardly vicious against competition. I doubt the US post office makes a profit, even if it did at what expense. Just because a monopoly earns a buck doesn’t mean it’s good. It means better hands don’t get a chance to work on the problem.

    ERROR:
    I have worked for the USPS. The USPS sets the prices for UPS and Fedex.

    Gentlemen,
    Corporations, businesses, nor companies(redundant, aren’t I?)pay taxes.
    People pay taxes. If a business pays taxes, it passes the cost on to the customer!


  • This last sentence i don’t understand. So, it is income, but not taxed as income? Then it is only fair that it is taxed before (btw, are the tax rates for dividends lower than for money earned by work? i have no idea, but i would guess: yes, they are lower.)

    Yes. Dividend tax is a flat tax. Income tax flucuates depending on your overall income (which includes non-Paycheck related income such as Dividends and other investments).


  • To whoever it may concern( I’m refering to the “Guest”)

    The idea that super rich familes getting more and more money will help the common family how?? Cause a billionare gets a paycheck doesn’t mean he earned it. Tell me someone how the CEO of Ford earns his fat paycheck when he hasn’t built one car?? All that guy ever does is sit on his @$$ behind his desk that his line workers would have a hard time affording wearing his suit that would take a line worker 6 months to buy, thinking of ways to screw his workers OOPS sorry cutting costs.

    I have no problem for small time millionares families keeping their money, I have nothing against small business owners!

    But for those FAT CATS who got their money through the stock market, like when guy or girl gets a big boost of money cause some company sent jobs to another country and their stock goes up. Not caring what happened to the small town those jobs were in. :evil: :evil: It really gets me mad when the company does it when they were already making huge profits :evil: :evil:

    Those decisions are made by the rich and the super rich.

    Maybe if the rich wouldn’t be so greedy and think of other people, then maybe I wouldn’t be upset with them. How much does the rich need??
    By the way “Guest” you earn money by doing a job not by sitting behind a desk wearing stuff your workers can’t get.

    IM AGAINST BIG BUSSINESS, BIG GOVERNMENT AND BIG MONEY!!!

    None of those 3 are good for the common man or woman!!!

    Xi the postal service was a monoply in the begining,but now All they have going for them are letters, but with E-Mail that could be in danger. You are right about the company passing its costs to the customer but then again if you think about it the cost of taxes and profits are relative along with everything else in the bussiness


  • war__, I’ve worked with bulk mail(packages and mass mailings.) I’ve seen how poorly your packages are treated. I only use Fedex and UPS. I hope to see the day these are competive! Your letters and all bulk mail are keeping the USPS afloat.

    So, why tax a business if it’s all passed to the comsumer?
    And then the consumer pays taxes on his purchases!


  • @waraxis:

    To whoever it may concern( I’m refering to the “Guest”)

    The idea that super rich familes getting more and more money will help the common family how?? Cause a billionare gets a paycheck doesn’t mean he earned it. Tell me someone how the CEO of Ford earns his fat paycheck when he hasn’t built one car?? All that guy ever does is sit on his @$$ behind his desk that his line workers would have a hard time affording wearing his suit that would take a line worker 6 months to buy, thinking of ways to screw his workers OOPS sorry cutting costs.

    I have no problem for small time millionares families keeping their money, I have nothing against small business owners!

    But for those FAT CATS who got their money through the stock market, like when guy or girl gets a big boost of money cause some company sent jobs to another country and their stock goes up. Not caring what happened to the small town those jobs were in. :evil: :evil: It really gets me mad when the company does it when they were already making huge profits :evil: :evil:

    Those decisions are made by the rich and the super rich.

    Okay, well are we discussing corporate ethics or taxes? Becuase I’d be happy to debate corporate ethics with you, but save it for another thread.

    The CEO of Ford has the knowledge and judgement to run a company that someone working on the assembly line just DOES NOT have. I don’t know why you see absolutely no difference, but it doesn’t surprise me.

    Why are you under the impression that the only respectable way to earn money in this country is to “get your hands dirty” with manual labor?

    Maybe if the rich wouldn’t be so greedy and think of other people, then maybe I wouldn’t be upset with them. How much does the rich need??

    That’s a really bad generalization of the rich. Do you really want me to counter this argument with FACTS? :roll:

    By the way “Guest” you earn money by doing a job not by sitting behind a desk wearing stuff your workers can’t get.

    Do I?

    Who are YOU to judge how people earn their money? If it’s not illegal or immoral, then I have no problem with it. The President doesn’t fight in the wars he must wage, does that mean he is not earning his money?


  • You bad, DS.
    You know it.
    You bad, DS.
    You show it!
    8)


  • Deviant:Scripter If you are working of course you deserve a paycheck but I think you need a wake up call if you think the rich havn’t screwed the working class. I noticed you totally side step my example about a company packing up a factory in a small town and sending the jobs out of the country.

    Don’t confuse a CEO with a small business owner. Small bussiness owners tend to work for a living as in working everyday in their bussiness, I doubt a CEO knows anything about the line work. Though I’m sure some do. If you had read my posts you would know I have nothing against millionares who built up a bussiness from the ground up. But billionares who go around looking for tax loops that is disgusting.
    With all the poor people in this country please explain to me you siding with the rich??

    Have you seen what Big Business has done to small town America???
    Do you realize What happens to small businesses when WAL-MART shows up?? You ever think about those people who lose their job to over seas cause the company decided that a billion dollars in profits was not enough?? Screwing people over to increase profits in immoral THAT I WILL JUDGE ON. Saving a company is one thing, sending jobs out of the country and not thinking about those families who depend on those jobs is wrong.

    And about me generalizationing I HAVE MET SOME REAL RICH PEOPLE, MY WIFE HAS MET ALOT MORE!!! She attended a private small university where quite a few Rich kids went to. My problem with the rich came from the attiude these people had. Not all of them were that bad. But even some of the kids would admit that their parents would get happy if the stock went up cause people lost some jobs!! As You can see I HAVE LIVED THE FACTS!!!

    Answer this question: Why does the rich need more money??

    The Whole debate started about death taxes. The idea of some famlies getting more and more powerful is a scary thought. Power corrupts. Its just that simple.

    All I ask from the rich is for them to stop complaining about their taxes. Have them live a regular life and maybe they will realize how good their lives are. Try living paychech to paycheck.

    One last thing, my wife going to that university was a big mistake we indebt to our eyeballs. So be careful on what universtry you choose. And make sure it won’t break you. My wife was denied some grants in her last year she thought she would get to pay off the school. Don’t count your chickens before they hatch I guess would apply to that.


  • Deviant:Scripter If you are working of course you deserve a paycheck but I think you need a wake up call if you think the rich havn’t screwed the working class. I noticed you totally side step my example about a company packing up a factory in a small town and sending the jobs out of the country.

    Do you know why they pack up and leave? Becuase they can find cheaper labor elsewhere. They’re not doing it to intentionally “screw” the employees. The only responsibility of a business is to MAKE MONEY. Whether that’s to it’s shareholders or it’s private owners is irrelevant. A business must put the financial success of itself ahead of EVERYTHING else, otherwise those people you care so much for wouldn’t have a job!

    Don’t confuse a CEO with a small business owner. Small bussiness owners tend to work for a living as in working everyday in their bussiness, I doubt a CEO knows anything about the line work.

    The first part I agree with…
    …but you blew it on the last part. :wink:

    I find it hard to believe that a CEO can make it to the top of a company without knowing how his company works…

    Though I’m sure some do. If you had read my posts you would know I have nothing against millionares who built up a bussiness from the ground up. But billionares who go around looking for tax loops that is disgusting. With all the poor people in this country please explain to me you siding with the rich??

    You know what’s disgusting? People trying to blame the world’s troubles on rich people.

    I hate to break it to you, but rich people aren’t the only ones who look for tax loops. So, why should one group of people have to feel guilty about trying to keep the money they have, and another group doesn’t?

    Answer this question: Why does the rich need more money??

    Who said they need more money? I’m saying that they should KEEP THE MONEY THEY EARNED.

    I’m getting an eerie feeling that you want to go back to the days of Eisenhower, and his 95% top tax bracket.

    You bad, DS.
    You know it.
    You bad, DS.
    You show it!

    Please send all fan-mail to…. :wink:


  • @Deviant:Scripter:


    The CEO of Ford has the knowledge and judgement to run a company that someone working on the assembly line just DOES NOT have. …
    Why are you under the impression that the only respectable way to earn money in this country is to “get your hands dirty” with manual labor?

    I don’t think waraxis said that. What he said was more “why is this knowledge worth this much more than the manual labor?”. D:S, you show this reflex of attacking any critics against the super-rich as socialist, from my european point of view one of the worst US stereotypes.
    I counter your question with this one:
    Why is the work of the Ford CEO so much more valuable (say factor of more than 300, right?) than that of his line workers? What does a line worker get if he works poorly and ruins a car? What does the CEO get if he works poorly and has to fire 30% of the line workers to consolidate his corporation?

    Who are YOU to judge how people earn their money? If it’s not illegal or immoral, then I have no problem with it.

    He doesn’t judge the “how”, he judges the “how much”. And the immorality is a point to discuss here. Is it defendable on a moral basis to raise your own income by firing employees (which for whatever reason raises the value of the companies shares, and probably some of the pay you receive is in form of these shares)? Or is that a simple misuse of your power?


  • @Deviant:Scripter:

    The only responsibility of a business is to MAKE MONEY. Whether that’s to it’s shareholders or it’s private owners is irrelevant. A business must put the financial success of itself ahead of EVERYTHING else, …

    Great. Fanatastic. Super.
    This dooms the human race as a whole, are you aware of that?
    Some recipes for financial success:
    Environmental friendly behavior costs money, though you can make a profit if you have educated and enough-earning customers to sell to at a higher price.
    Education costs money, and raises critical voices who might not see the must of making a profit over anything else. These actually might think that humans are more important than the cash flow of the company. Much better instead of education is making people apprentices to our believes.
    Unfortunately, if we follow the second, then we lose the potential customers of the first. Ergo, environmentally friendly products won’t sell and are to be avoided.

    I know D:S, you will claim that this is some kind of “weird leftist conspiracy theory”, but you have not heard anything about the reforms in the educational system over here in germany, right? One of teh main arguments of the ones like you is that the university has to “produce” people who are better prepared to work in the industry. (We have special universities for that, who emphasize not the research but the application, but that is not enough for them it seems). If there was a bigger need for “different” university graduates, then the market should fix it, shouldn’t it? Why do the companies not just employ gradutes of the “applied universities” and leave the “regular” graduates where they are? That would be the way economics should work. But, it seems like the guys working there don’t trust their own theories and want to influence each and every part of society.
    And there is more, so keep back your comment until you inform yourself on it.

    BTW, the term “human resource” is violating human rights (as a resource does not have any rights, but is there to be exploited). Whoever invented it should be sent to court for that.

Suggested Topics

  • 28
  • 198
  • 4
  • 1
  • 8
  • 7
  • 11
  • 56
Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures

40

Online

17.6k

Users

40.3k

Topics

1.7m

Posts