The Japan Playbook

[questioneer]

Still didn’t answer my question to the counters I posted.

Well maybe we’ll have to wait til we play on tripleA to find out. :-D

[questioneer]

I’ll agree with this: that it is a gambit.  I don’t doubt that eventually that Japan can get Calcutta- I just don’t believe they can get 6VCs with coordination Allied pressure.

Also, your opponent not building anything on the Euro side is foolish- he was right to lose- especially when you have free access to both sides now and making 75+ bucks a turn 2-3 rounds earlier than normal- no excuse- pathetic. :lol:

[Cow]

I did answer. Ignore the russian inf stack up top. Hawaii does nothing, out of range of your naval, j4 I buy fighters. J5 10 inf on japan if USA insists.

USA at war round 1 instead of round 2 is little difference. He has to replace the sub and dd he lost in pacific along with that fighter.

USA can’t take over africa with his 1 transport and 1 cruiser… come on now.

The only attack USA has on round 1 is brazil… and technically that is non combat movement.

USA collects his 73 round1, buys and places round2, moves it out round 3, then has to move it out again to be in position…

Even then we are only talking about +23 worth of stuff, which is probably 3 dds (techically he already lost this on J1 but now gets an option to replace or to get something else)
~

I always DOW J2, because there is no reason to delay.  and you are only speaking of +23 bucks. He did spend stuff in the atlantic, but once I took calcutta he had to go all pacific, because I was mobilizing to take hawaii.

Try to keep things in perspective please. You blow everything out of proportion.

Yes this is gambit, but it is not much of a gambit reallly.

I always DOW J2. Why would anyone wait till J3? … afterall J2 you can get 4 islands… that’s 15 bucks right there…

[questioneer]

So you addressed round 1- big deal- USA can’t do huge damage past round 1???  C’mon now.

Didn’t address beefing up India from Africa units and Russia.  With the help of these, India can put up a fight by round 4-5 easily with combo of Russian stack dancing around China.  If you ignore than maybe I just take Shanghai since you don’t care.  This strategy of yours is starting to fall off the wheels… :roll:

[Cow]

I did address this issue. It’s called minor complexes making inf and just containing UK pacific to 7 ipc a round.

Plus if you are sending reinforcements from africa and russia… I am sure you are having trouble in say idk, maybe, Africa?

Your infantry move 1 space at a time. round 4 you are in korea or manchuria (actually if you are in manchuria you are super dead). Round 5 you are manchuria. round 6 jehol. round 5 is usually where I all inned calcutta or decided to contain. in which case round 6 or 7 I setup to deal with it.

yes you are bieng annoying up top, but are you gg’ing japan? nope.
~
USA is not any stronger than it would be had I waited to J2 or J3 to go to war. The pitfall has to do with china and not USA contrary to your flawed logic.

You are not accounting for the naval japan kills, battleships tilt and repair, he lose dd and sub, he has to replace. it is not a +23 benefit. you -2 pinoy, you -14 naval. please do math. also fighter -3 there assume it get 2 hit.

he lose 19, 25 if you add 2 usa inf on pinoy. he get 23, where is the huge benefit for usa??? i do not see. l2 add and subtract. :X

Yes there is a pitfall with china, it has to do with the burma road. Yes there is another pitfall up top because of the russian inf. Does this have an impact? yes it does, but you are trying to take out a country to make up for it. That is the idea.

There is no pitfall with America. In fact USA should never be a determining factor for your decision to go to war or not, it is better for your income to climb sooner than later.

[seth4god]

This is very interesting and if I ever did this I’d threaten sealion and then go hard on USSR. Maybe G1 Barb? If you can take UK or push on USSR G1 then US has a choice. Try to save UK/USSR and build in atlantic or try and contain Japan? That’s a tough balance right there to maintain. Too little of US in either theater will likely doom the allies.

[questioneer]

With all due respect Cow, I just gotta see it on the board.  I do think that it is a good strat to gun for India right away, I’m just not convinced that the Allies can’t make a fight out of it and/or if Japan can sack a 6VC win every time.  If that is true, the game is broken.  You’re reasoning for attacking right away is strong.  Personally, I may try the J2 route, but I think there are counters the Allies can come up with.  Also, losing Africa is no different then losing China.  I see that as the same.  Moving the African Brit forces over to India should stabilize it a bit til the US brings the heat by round 3.

2 Minor ICs- ok fine- but that just cost Japan the money they just earned on J1, while US is making $75 a turn way too early.  With that much cash I could bomb Germany from round 3 on constantly from England and just ship the rest of the cash to the Pacific.  I can break the Pacific starting with Carolines with $52 a turn.  What makes you think I can’t do it with $75.

Point being, by the time you sack Calcutta- which will be costly.  As the US, I’ll be taking back Phillipines, 18inf will be rushing through China (unless you attack the stack- in which case you will lose 10-12 units on average to do so, stalling Japan down even more), and the Aussies will be cleaning up the leftovers.

Boy, I can’t wait to play you in TripleA- fresh meat. :lol:

[Derek]

You will not ever win against an equal opponent attacking USA round one. Baring absurd dice of course.
You do know that USSR can declare war on Japan and move planes and mech/tanks to the VCs like India to protect them right ?
Not mentioning the 18 INF up there in the East.

This is a game of economics, and by attacking USA round 1 you just gave all the advantage to your opponent.
If your playing a lesser opponent, or just hoping for amazing dice, then go for it. Otherwise prepare to get handled.

The Axis hope of winning is to take and hold as many territories as possible before USA enters, thus making at least the same if not more money than the allies. You do not have much time as it is.

This has been discussed before in many different threads.

And honestly i hate the rule of victory on one board for the axis, this is an incredibly stupid rule in my opinion. You might as well just ask the Axis player which board he wants to play on then throw the other one away :P

[Alsch91]

@Uncrustable:

And honestly i hate the rule of victory on one board for the axis, this is an incredibly stupid rule in my opinion. You might as well just ask the Axis player which board he wants to play on then throw the other one away :P

If this rule didn’t exist, then the US could devote 100% of its income to one side and crush it before the other side can make a big enough impact.  This rule is very necessary.

[Cow]

Again I do not see how USA at war round 1 or 2 or 3 matters much.

I generally do the J2 DOW every game, because I can nab 3 isles, while killing an yunnan stack / pushing on china. The biggest issue is china and uk merging on yunnan with a J1 DOW… it is troublesome.

USA gets 23 but lost 19 on the first round. so it is a moot point, I am tired of repeating myself. usa is not in range to threaten anything yet either. on USA1 he goes to hawaii and then his japan threat is still minimal. 2 air 1 bomber 4 guys… usa 2 and beyond, maybe he can buy all naval for pacific or europe, one side suffers more than the other (usa can already do this, just with 23 extra bucks for 1 round, woopy do).

Yes russia can reinforce india along with the african air etc… but that’s stuff not being used on the other half of the board, germany should be making quick gains considering russia is already short on firepower to forgo 3 air units to india.

Also you get 3 more islands on j2 so your income goes up as well.

You guys talk about this usa advantage, but I just don’t see it. He loses stuff round 1 and they kill nothing. So for usa the DOW is a moot point.

This is very interesting and if I ever did this I’d threaten sealion and then go hard on USSR. Maybe G1 Barb? If you can take UK or push on USSR G1 then US has a choice. Try to save UK/USSR and build in atlantic or try and contain Japan? That’s a tough balance right there to maintain. Too little of US in either theater will likely doom the allies.

I appreciate this. Give it a try :D . you can also send all available units to do pearl harbor and all transports on philippines and the rest of the naval there. do the same transport buy and take hawaii the round after (unless usa buys strait subs or something that would cause you to leave the area).

Problem with this is not having anything to defend the transports in spice islands… you end up killing lots of hawaii stuff with no counter, but end up losing transports to take all the islands. It is still fun, if anzac is buying sub/dd combos, after hawaii you can move down and then blast off with your transports and drop australia and merge with the naval down under.

It is really funny to take out anzac players, anzac is very limited and it is difficult to predict japan moves with it (if japan is unpredictable or if you have not faced that player before).

Yes, on the europe side of the board, I assume everyone does sea lion bluff by now, as the carrier and boats you buy ease the novgorod situation and get infantry / art into the fight sooner (instead of mech / tanks which is more costly)… Also you can follow through with a UK takeover if UK sends out all his air.

`to those italy skeptics.

As far as italy / africa goes. germany has a ton of air that can hit usa should he come into the medit sea also usa can’t enter the medit sea and supply UK with naval at the same time, he has to do one before the other. generally speaking Italy 1 you can save up Italy 2 you can get naval Italy 3 you drop alexandria and pwn egypt no problem.

You can usually race and take egy/transjordan and when usa enters you can stay tucked away . At this point you stop buying naval and get ground forces, your extra income pays for it.

USA, can go many directions, but he has to put income on both sides of the board so I would be careful of saying USA solves everything, because in actual game play usa cannot win everywhere. USA is not charlie sheen…

[Cow]

I think J2 DOW is standard play, because allies tend to grab dutch islands, and you have to take that cash away (or face even more infantry being placed in india and subs from anzac).

[Cow]

haha questioneer my standard j1 and j2 dow is similar to yours. I browsed some games real fast.

the allies seem so discombobulated around here though.

[questioneer]

@Cow:

haha questioneer my standard j1 and j2 dow is similar to yours. I browsed some games real fast.

the allies seem so discombobulated around here though.

What games???  I don’t DOW on J1 or J2, though I’m warming up to J2 along with a G2- that can possibly be lethal.  Interesting… :-)

[Cow]

I guess I am mistaken, I saw someone do my setup give or take a few units. I dled a bunch of games to just pop up n look at.

From what I noticed players that DOW J3 tend to get shutdown in the long haul, but russia get pwned anyway. I don’t see too much iraq with russia though or mech infantry from uk pac coming in to help russia.

I think allies will come around to it. I don’t see why not take iraq and persia with russia for the +7 especially if italy is on home defense from Italy 1 (never going to threaten it basically).

I don’t know, I feel like the longer japan waits the more mech infantry russia gets from uk pac lol, it can end up delaying things. I hate it personally, because then I can’t hold volgograd, which is 3 less units that I could drop right next to russia. I did this to someone and someone spectating did this to me… I found it frustrating -.-

[Cow]

I updated. a bit.

[Spendo02]

What do you do as Japan when:

R1 DOW on Japan
NCM 3 Inf Sakha - > Bury
NCM 3 Inf, 2 AA Sakha - > Amur
NCM 1 Ftr/Tac Moscow -> Calcutta
NCM 1 Mech/Arm Stalingrad -> Sikang

9 Inf are in Amur with 2 AA
9 Inf are in Bury
1 Ftr/Tac in Calcutta and 1 Mech/Arm are in Sikang poised for a R2 move to reclaim the Burma Road to allow a C2 purchase of Art.  Those aircraft will be able to return to Calcutta to help defend a J3-J4 India Crush if it indeed occurs.

An alternative move is to land those aircraft on Yunnan and potentially force Japan to lose aircraft trying to take Yunnan on J1.  However, I don’t like risking the Russian aircraft for that purpose, but instead utilize them as in the prior paragraph.

Alternatively, if the Crush fails to happen, those 2 aircraft can still return to Moscow in a 1 turn move prior to Germany arriving on its doorstep.

Is J1 worried enough about 9 Inf in Amur to send aircraft against it?  If so, there will be 12 Russian Inf - 3 from activating Mongolian Political Situation - countering on R2.

Thoughts?

[Cow]

How is russia putting units on calcutta when russia is not at war? Being at war with japan only allows him to put stuff on china and jap territories. No +5 bonus for warring japan. No landing on UK territories.

For UK to be your ally, germany or italy has to war you, unless I am crazy.
~

Ruskies in sikang poised to take burma road, aa guns in amur +3 inf as bait. I see what you are doing, but I am a little confused.

Ok normally russia keeps maybe 1 inf in amur, putting 3 inf and 2 aa guns means you are baiting japan to do some early russia play, to give you mongolian states.

Normally when russia does the sikang with his air there, he’s trying to assist china while germany gets his stuff together.

So you are pretty much just asking japan to do the heavy russia/china thing. OK, I’d do it instead of J1 DOW. You got me, axis double team russia! J3 DOW to take islands (because on J2 I won’t have boats ready from dealing with russia lol).

but like the sikang thing is fine,  You can have the burma road, I am still cutting UK off from income. J2 the ground forces come into kwangsi.

transports should threaten india so he has to keep something back for india.the starting shangtung and kiangsu pieces will move into position as well.

But yes you can get a big stack going on. all I can have is at most 14-16 guys with all my air vs 17 chinese 1  fig 3 ruskie air 1 mech 1 tank plus whatever uk pac can give up. that’s still a landslide lose for china.

you are right I wouldn’t throw my air at a yunnan stack on round 2, I’d drop my boats off stack up with my air. unless UK pac can send a bunch of stuff in yunnan while holding  india from. round 3 hold is not going to work out.

~
I would have to buy a naval base and airbase on J2, because the 5 extra russians  means with ukpacs starting pieces + china stack + 5 ruskies = yunnan could be a close battle…. but since ukpac only makes 10 and then 7… he can barely hold calcutta as it is.

If your objective is to save calcutta by adding 5 russians, it’d be enough to deter me,  because there would be like 30 guys there and not 25 or whatever (air inf aa mix) vs 20 air and 3 full boat 3 maybe full boat.  yeah you would deter me.’
~

funny thing is, j2 i am taking malaya and 2 more islands  so j3 I take the last island and try to set up for calcutta by holding shan state for a landing from the airbase so j4 comes… battle is still favorable but i would be so screwed after that.

[Cow]

but if germany wait 1 round to declar war on russia i can still get calcutta… but if uk is buyin bombers then germany has to buy naval to protect his transport shuck… boo.

[Spendo02]

Russia can DOW on R1 on Japan if it chooses to, can it not?  That enables them to move all around Asia.

Cow:

I employed a similar J1 attack yesterday.  I played patiently with Japan, and realistically it took a lot longer than I expected to sack Calcutta (round 5 or 6).  I had a hard time taking and holding Shan or Burma which delayed the use of all my air power.  The one BIG mistake I made was not taking FIC on J1 (I just missed it it in all the action).  This ended up hurting me because a J2 AB on FIC opened up Shan as a landing location instead of Burma (if you are coming out of Kwang) after you attack Calcutta.

I had some fun making the US chase me around the pacific.  I sent two CV with complimentary aircraft, a CR, DD and a TT with 2 Inf to Carolines early.  The US had moved up to Japan early and took Korea - but the potential of nothing on Hawaii and the US 2 moves away from it by staying off Japan forced them to retreat.  I moved that fleet from the Carolines to Line and threatened taking the Panama Canal while the US staged 10 subs off W.USA and its Pacific fleet in Hawaii.  Instead of suiciding in Panama, I took New Zealand instead, leaving a DD at Fiji to block the US fleet.  I shot from NZ to Java after that because the allies didn’t block me in at NZ.  The US cleared the way to Java (I left the CR at SZ54 thinking I could block the Anzac fleet off Sydney) and Allies got their first real battle to trade ships with Japan, leaving the Japanese fleet with just a tipped BB.

I didn’t win the game, and in fact Germany was pretty much made impotent with full US IPC purchases going to the atlantic for the majority of the rounds.  I got lucky with a german attack on the allied flotilla being lightly guarded and sunk something along the lines of 8-10 allied TT sunk (but not after they unloaded them in N.Africa).

All in all, I think if you want to try to win the game with Japan it is possible.  Even after trading ships with Anzac, I was 1 TT away from being able to hit Hawaii (US had just taken the Carolines).  I utilized the 5-6 TT to great success, and even after Russia invaded Manchuria and continued to move south to make China bigger, I was able to swing TT around and reclaim Korea and Manchuria.  I was able to utilize the Japanese aircraft after calcutta (who didn’t play defensively before it was too late) to reclaim the lost VC’s in China.

I wouldn’t suggest a J1 attack unless you really don’t like whoever is playing the German and Italian countries Europe sucked for the Axis.  They are put WAY behind the 8-ball with US purchases going all atlantic while Japan runs rampant in the Pacific for a few turns.

[Cow]

you need to be at war with germany to move into united kingdom territories right?

I thought you don’t pick up UK as an ally till germany declares war.
~

Oh f–- you forgot to take FIC round 1, that’s brutal. I made that mistake too once. ><

So what exactly kept you from hitting calcutta? UK PAC mechanized infantry retaking shan state with china in burma road or soemthing?

I have made some small adjustments to my opener lately.

starting mech goes to anhwe

kiangsu goes to kiangsi. so 5 guys plus the 1 guy that survives kwangtung are in kwangsi come japan 2. the transports unload FIC.

the unloaded transport men march to shan state (you also unload all but 1 guy there). Then you should be able to hit from FIC or kwangsi airbase no problem on india with a spot to land.
~

Also last question. G1 we sinking 110 / 111 right? 1-2 sub bship 110 + air. and 111 2 sub + air. Nothing fancy in europe, all ground units that can hit france hit france, powerslam yugoslavia, take finland and romania with 1 guy.

Even if USA goes full atlantic, USA 1 he would buy naval maybe some transports, USA 2 he moves out… but this is only like a 4 man drop you are threatened with on round 3…

So your germany situation does not change by much. Italy round 1 does not change. Round 2 you are still safe in SZ 97 as italy, but usually you are trying to take egypt round 2 (tobruk->alexandria g2 land a couple german fighters to guard it).

I mean that is how I roll.