People are ignorant to it for the same reason why people can’t understand that Italian and German Americans were also in camps.
Japanese Invasion of America?
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Perhapse I jumped the gun in comparing the 2 opposing forces in this speculative scenario, perhapse I should have better established the parameters of this speculative scenario first. So let me describe the conditions that would have to have been met to allow these to combatants to come face to face on the North American continent.
Early when planning the war against America admiral Yamamoto hatched upon an idea; rather then just sink the US pacific in the harbor, why not remove the entire facility from American use. He wasnt talking about just destroying the facility itself, but removing all the ships, equipment, supplies, tools and personel from American control. Yamamoto and his staff we planning on a massive air attack on Pearl Harbor, but would then, after a feined retreat, follow up with the comboined fleet bombarding the island and invading Oahu itself. With the forces Japan ear marked to capture the south-eastern pacific territories used here instead Japan could be certian of victory. The Imperial armys high command disliked Yamamoto( and the naval staff in general) and refused to support the plan so it was abandoned. For the sake of this scenario lets say they hadnt and Japans opening strike on America included this plan to.
So on the morning of Dec. 7th the Japanese combined fleet sits in the waters off of Hawaii and launch their strikes against Pearl Harbor, only this time nagumo is forced to launch the thrid strike and dose even more damage to the port, repair facilities, subs and their bases and finish off the Hawaian air forces, all while taking relatively light casualties. US forces on the island, stunned by the damage and ferocity of the attack attempt to take stock and make repairs and slavage what they can. Meanwhile, in the waters north of Hawaii 2 of the remaining US carries, Lexington and Enterprise are steaming back to Pearl to help with the salvage and rescue operations. Along the way they encounter and shoot down a Japanese sea-plane unable to tell if it radioed the combined fleet. Remaining on full alert the answer is given when several Japanese begin attack runs on the carriers. Despite a heroic stand the 2 carriers are no match for the combined might the first air fleet and are sunk. This leaves the US with one aircraft carrier(USS Saratoga) in the Pacific to Japans 6. The Japanese then return to Oahu and launch their invasion quickly over running the island garrison. The Japanese then set about taking the entire Pacific navys staff prisoner as well as taking precious inteligence information home. Most notable would be the discovery of station HYPO and that their coded messages had been cracked. Japanese combat engineers set about destroy what is left on Oahu that could be of use to the Americans setting the entire port, naval facility, air fields and hangers and radar stations to explode. 48 hours, the Japanese leave, detonating their carefully and stratigic placed explosives and render the island useless as a staging base of the US. This scorched earth policy renders Oahu scarred husk of the tropical paradise it once was. The Japanese also take home a number of high profile prisoners like Admiral Stark and Kimmel (commanders of the pre-war fleet) and the crypto-analists of station HYPO. The loss of these men is very demoralising and leave America in the dark as to what Japans next move will be.(I will conclude this soon, just need more time)
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Japan had no incentive to taking over North America. They just wanted the Westerners out of the Pacific and Asia.
In fact, they wanted to remain at peace with the United States as a trading partner. Japanese Exports to the United States were very large and growing before the 1940s (Like Chinese Manufacturing today). It was almost a JOKE of the time in the pre-war years that almost everything was being “Made in Japan”.
You’ve made an excellent point: Japan did not want war with the U.S. The Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor represented a victory for the FDR administration’s geopolitical strategy, and Germany’s subsequent declaration of war on the U.S. represented a larger victory.
In the war between Nazism and communism, FDR was strongly on the side of the communists. Unhesitatingly. Wholeheartedly. Without any concerns or regrets whatsoever. The two pillars of his vision for the world’s future were the destruction of Nazi Germany and a long-term alliance between the United States and the Soviet Union. He liked and praised Joseph Stalin, and gaining Stalin’s approval was very important to FDR personally. FDR helped create the pro-Soviet propaganda film Mission to Moscow. But when FDR showed the film to the Soviet dictator, hoping for compliments and praise for having presented communist propaganda to the American people, all he got in return was a grunt.
FDR’s pro-Soviet and anti-Nazi perspective was the foundation for the U.S.'s entire political and military strategy of the late '30s and early to mid '40s.
Japan had launched aggression against China in 1937. That war was of secondary or tertiary interest to FDR and his administration, which is why little or nothing was done about it at the time. The equation changed in the spring of 1941 when Germany invaded the Soviet Union. The danger, at least from FDR’s perspective, was that Japan would launch a second invasion from the east. A second front would tie down a portion of the Red Army, and would interfere with FDR’s ability to ship weapons to the Soviets via Vladivostok. Japanese forces would be very strong near the coast due to its powerful battleships and to the fact that the Japanese had a powerful air force in 1941, whereas the Soviets’ air force had been almost completely destroyed by the Germans.
If, however, Japan were to attack the United States, it would divert Japanese military strength away from the Soviet Union. If the Germans were led to believe that the United States was too weak to fight a two ocean war, Germany might also be tempted to declare war on the U.S. (Especially because doing so would allow Germany to sink the massive quantities of Lend-Lease Aid that FDR was sending to the Soviets and the British.)
Shortly after Germany invaded the Soviet Union, the FDR administration enacted an oil embargo against Japan. At that point, the Japanese knew that they had less than a year before their oil reserves were exhausted. The most logical source of new oil was, as Malachi Crunch pointed out, the Dutch East Indies. The FDR administration worked to create the impression that, if Japan attacked British or Dutch holdings in the Pacific, the U.S. would declare war. (Whether Congress would have gone to war to protect European colonialism in the Pacific is another matter.) In addition, the FDR administration altered the military’s strategic posture in the Pacific to make it far more threatening to Japan. Strategic bombers were sent to the Philippines–bombers with the range to hit Japanese cities. That base was threatening–but also was something which could be taken out by a surprise attack had the Japanese chosen to launch it.
The United States had cracked Japan’s diplomatic codes. FDR knew that if he asked for moderate concessions to have the oil embargo lifted, the Japanese would agree. But if he asked for steep concessions, the Japanese would go to war. His administration asked for very steep concessions indeed. The breaking of the diplomatic code also meant that FDR had two weeks of advance notice about the impending Japanese attack. He did not know the exact hour of the attack or its targets, but he knew an attack was coming. The American military was not put on alert, and the military commanders at Pearl Harbor were specifically forbidden from ordering patrol flights. FDR’s administration later scapegoated those in charge of Pearl Harbor, blamed them for the U.S. having been caught by surprise, ended their careers, and publicly humiliated and attacked them with Congressional hearings.
Two weeks before the Pearl Harbor attack, an important U.S. government document was leaked. This document made it seem as though war between the U.S. and Germany was inevitable and that it was only a matter of time before the U.S. turned its full military strength against Germany. Over the short-term, however, the U.S. was (it was claimed) too weak for a two ocean war, and had an 18 month - 2 year period of vulnerability. After this period of vulnerability had ended, the U.S. would of course make Germany the primary target of its war effort. This document was pivotal in persuading Germany to declare war against the U.S. in the aftermath of the Pearl Harbor attack. The German plan was to defeat the Soviet Union before the U.S. could significantly participate in the European war. Germany would then have the industrial capacity necessary to hold off a D-Day invasion or the destruction of its cities. It would then negotiate an end to hostilities from this position of relative strength.
Evidence suggests the above-described document was leaked by FDR personally. Its release certainly helped FDR achieve his objective of turning a war against Japan into a war against Germany.
Shortly after the Pearl Harbor attack, Stalin sent 100 divisions west across the Trans-Siberian railway. They arrived in the middle of winter, and proved to be a complete surprise to the Germans. He was able to do this because the Pearl Harbor attack meant that Japan could no longer launch a major attack on the Soviet Union. In 1942, Americans landed in Algeria, and began fighting the German Army directly. In 1943 Hitler called off his attack against the Soviets at Kursk, in part because he was concerned about an attack the Americans and British had launched in Italy. In addition, Hitler never had the chance to turn Germany’s industrial strength fully against the Soviet Union. A significant portion had to be retained both to build fighters to defend against Anglo-American attacks against German cities, and to continue building up Germany’s industrial capacity to counter increasing levels of American aircraft production.
WWII succeeded in placing most of Europe under communist domination. That state of affairs bothered Churchill, but did not concern either FDR or Truman. At Yalta, both FDR and Churchill agreed to hand over refugees from the Soviet Union to Stalin, regardless of their consent. Nearly 5 million refugees were affected by this arrangement.
Tolstoy described the scene of Americans returning to the internment camp after having delivered a shipment of people to the Russians. “The Americans returned to Plattling visibly shamefaced. Before their departure from the rendezvous in the forest, many had seen rows of bodies already hanging from the branches of nearby trees.”[10]
FDR’s willingness to help the Soviets unjustly imprison or murder millions of innocent men, women, and children represents the natural culmination of his pro-Soviet foreign policy.
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Kurt, that is a very intresting and insightful post and was a very entertaining read. Seems a bit out of left field though, what’s it got to do with a possible Japanese invasion of the US? Or were you just trying to answer Dylans question? Either way cool read
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Kurt, that is a very intresting and insightful post and was a very entertaining read. Seems a bit out of left field though, what’s it got to do with a possible Japanese invasion of the US? Or were you just trying to answer Dylans question? Either way cool read
Thanks for your compliments Clyde. :) In answer to your question, I felt that a discussion of a Japanese invasion of America has two parts: 1) what Japan could do. 2) what Japanese leaders had hoped to achieve back when they’d decided to go to war. My most recent post was more relevant to 2) than to 1).
I agree that the scenario you’ve outlined earlier is within the realm of possibility. (I’m referring to your post about the potential destruction of most of the U.S. Pacific carrier fleet and the neutralization of the American naval base at Pearl Harbor.) I don’t personally feel this would have opened the door to a potential Japanese invasion of the West Coast, for the reasons I outlined earlier. But I’m happy to read any thoughts you or others may have on the matter.
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Thank you Kurt :-D I will attempt to conclude my theroy here.
The Japanese combined fleet has delt the US a crippling blow in its opening offensive. The entire pre-war fleet (excluding the carrier Saratoga and the cruiser Indianapolis, with a literal handful of destroyers and frigates) has been wiped out with no way to recover any piece of it. Whats worse, Americas forward base in the Pacific, Pearl Harbor, has been completely neutralized. The Japanese now hold the senior commanders and their staffs prisoner along with the startling revalation that their codes have been broken. The have also taken home with them knowladge of Americas new weapon, radar, which is passed over to Japans top sicentists to see what they can learn about it. On its way home, the combined fleet and the S.N.L.F. the took part in the occupation of Oahu, make a brief stop at wake to help finish off what had been a heroic and stalwart defense of the island. Along with this, the Japanese Empire has also taken guam and invaded Hong Kong, Malaya, the Phillipines, Burma, and has sunk the British fleet in the waters of the south China sea. By early 1942 all, save for the north of Burma and, will have fallen to the Japanese empire.
When departing from their breif occupation Oahu they issued a “scorched earth” directive and let the island a ruined of its ones beautiful self. Thousands lie dead and the surviors tell stories of the horror of the Japanese occupation. The stories that reach the mainland, while afirming the peoples resolve to fight, has an enormously negative effect on the homefronts morale. People begin to wonder aloud whether their goverment and armed forces can protect them. The US high command send 2 more carriers, the Hornet, the_Wasp_, and their escorts to reinforce the Saratoga in the pacific. This nascent carrier force is all that stands between the entire Japanese combined fleet and the west coast of the United States. As such it is kept close to coastal near the newly created west coast command on the Treasure islands off of San Farnsisco.
The next stage of Japans offensive beging almost immediately after their attack on Pearl Harbor. Taking tips from their German counter parts, the Japanese naval staff organize “wolf-pack” style submarine fleets and set them on raiding all shipping comming from the Western coast of North America. These ookami packs, patrol in an arch from the Aleutian Islands in the north to the Panama canal in the south. The Japanese submarines were some of the best seen during the WW2 ear and had massive range. The Japanese merchant raiding is massively successful as shipping from the west coast is brought to a near halt. Lend Lease equippment intended for Australia, China, India, and the Soviet Union sits on pier unable to get ot their destination. The Carrier force dose all that it can to protect costal shipping but the Joints Chiefs unwillingness to risk Americas last remaining power in the Pacific means that any deep water protecting is impossible. Also the massive expanse the Japanese wolf-packs are operating over is just too wide and the Carrier force (named Task force Halsey in honor of Admiral Halsey who went down with the USS Enterpirse on Dec. 7) can not be everywhere at once.
A argument breaks out between the joint chiefs and the white house. The joint chiefs want to use the carrier force to protect areas of high strategic value, like the panama canal, and also to try and set the Japanese off balance by striking at the Japanese bases a Truk or other critical areas to Japan. Some more radical elements in the army command even want to try bombing the home islands themselves, an idea being championed by Lt.-col. Doolittle. However the political leadership refuse to allow the carriers to be risked and know that the presence of the carriers on the west coast is the only thing keeping an out right panic from gripping the people there. This impass leaves US Forces in the Pacific and west coast to sit and wait at the mercy of Japan to see what will happen next.(Sorry, I know I said I conclude it here, but I will finish it very soon!!!)
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If everything was different and all of Hawaii had been invaded and somehow Japan found massive depots of oil then what? Well, lets put this in axis and allies terms. I will grant you all that. So, Japan’s first 100 dice rolls are all 1s scoring 100 hits out of 100. The US rolls 100 6’s and don’t score a single hit.
So now what? An invasion launched from Hawaii say. Compare that to the D-Day invasion launched in early June 1944. Considering Hawaii is 2400-2500 miles away from California versus Europe (Calais) being 19 miles from England. Normandy was chosen for a variety of reasons, one of which was the HUGE distance of 110 miles. Yeah, 110 miles was so far away the germans didn’t really suspect Normandy was the target. Compare that with 2400 miles at the closest point.
So ya gotta figure that since they have to:
A) Cover 20 times the distance and staging the operation from a hostile assembly point versus an allied nation like England
B) The landing point is a hostile USA versus a somewhat ally in occupied France.
C) Invading the worlds largest economy with more oil than god at that point in timeI can’t imagine Japan being ready for their version of D-Day within 5 years of the allied D-Day….
So like, how do ya think the imperial fleet would fare against nuclear bombs?
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So this is a speculative scenario, I get you really dont like the idea of the US’s sacred homeland being invaded, but im trying to present the best case scenario and conditions under which an invasion COULD have been possible. I dont understand all the hostility.
I dont know what A-bombs are going to be around in 1942 so they dont really factor in.
Also, the reason that the allies waited soooo long in invading France was because Churchill was scared wit-less of the Germans. After the disaster at Dieppe, He has grown fearful of the power of the Germans and their defensives. We could have invaded France way earlier, but Churchill was too scared and didnt want another Dieppe, Also he was warngling to get an invasion of the Balkans going to increas British influnce in the region.
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Thats a great scenario when is the book/movie coming out
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While I hold a successful Japanese invasion of the US for entirely unfeasible for all the solid reasons mentioned by several people on this thread, I do like Clyde’s speculative scenario. If I may make a suggestion there: to overcome the huge logistic problems that the Japanese would face if they attempted a direct invasion from a far-away vantage point such as Hawaii, I’d say they could try a phased approach by first enlisting an ally on the American continent. Mexico would be ideal, and after Japanese successes in the Pacific along the lines described by Clyde, maybe the Mexican government could be convinced to join the Axis. This could be attempted by a combination of diplomatic efforts similar to Germany’s World War I Zimmermann Telegram, financial backup, and a genuine Japanese military presence.
The invasion would then come from the South rather than the West, the Texas oil fields being a tempting target. Germany might be able to lend a hand in such an operation by means of submarine operations in the Gulf.Of course it’s very unlikely that the US would sit by and watch the progress of such very obvious preparations, and it’s also not at all sure the Mexicans would cooperate in the first place - but then again, it’s all highly speculative anyway.
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So this is a speculative scenario, I get you really dont like the idea of the US’s sacred homeland being invaded, but im trying to present the best case scenario and conditions under which an invasion COULD have been possible. I dont understand all the hostility.
I dont know what A-bombs are going to be around in 1942 so they dont really factor in.
Also, the reason that the allies waited soooo long in invading France was because Churchill was scared wit-less of the Germans. After the disaster at Dieppe, He has grown fearful of the power of the Germans and their defensives. We could have invaded France way earlier, but Churchill was too scared and didnt want another Dieppe, Also he was warngling to get an invasion of the Balkans going to increas British influnce in the region.
Malachi Crunch is Canadian, and my sense is that his patriotic feelings are pro-Canada, not pro-U.S. (As an aside, the Canadian Army would have been another thorn in Japan’s side, at least if it had chosen to invade via the Alaska route.)
A successful Japanese invasion would require four things: 1) Japanese naval superiority, 2) Japanese land-based parity or superiority, 3) Japanese air superiority, and 4) Large-scale Japanese shipping and logistical capacity. You’ve shown how the first of these things might have been temporarily achieved. But my sense (and possibly Malachi Crunch’s sense as well) is that it’s going to be difficult or impossible to paint a realistic picture of how the latter three could be achieved.
I’m willing to keep an open mind, and I have to admit that Herr Kaleun’s Mexico idea is a good one which hadn’t occurred to me. But based on the data I have thus far, my sense is that a Japanese invasion was never a possibility, and that Japan’s leaders understood that.
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Cylde85, your refined scenario is interesting, but KurtGodel7 is correct, my loyalties are to Canada as I am a Canuckian. The Mexican angle might help, but then again the mexican mainland is that much further away from Japan.
It’s not that I am hostile to the idea of the US being invaded, heck, Canadians…errrr, the British as Canada didn’t exist…The British and what would become Canada did invade the US mainland and burned the US capital to the ground. I just think its too much of a stretch to contemplate a sustained Jap invasion.
If I hear you correctly, you feel the allies were ready to invade europe ibefore June 6, 1944…but it was Winston Churchill who was scared of Hitler and didn’t want to? Interesting, fictional but interesting.
My point was, the allies were not ready to invade europe until about 14 months before the atom bomb was ready, there is NO WAY Japan would be ready by June 6, 1944 or June 6 1948. By the time they built up enough of an invasion force say a few years longer than the allies required for D-Day they would be facing a nuclear armed enemy. The fact is, the US had such a huge production advantage its just too implausible for me to entertain seriously.
I think perhaps if Japan had NOT done pearl harbour. Had just gone after the British and commonwealth countries, the dutch east indies…that the US might not want to fight for somebody else.
By attacking the US in the way they did…only pissed them off. It made it easy to put the entire continent on a war footing in production which the Germans NEVER did pull off until it was much much too late.
Now, you spin a scenario in which the US never enters the war, europe collapses, the axis owning everything but the americas… The both the US and Germany get nuclear weapons and a stalemate along the lines of the cold war develop. Still no Jap invasion could occur.
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I think if you look at the history of the Pacific war, you’ll see that time and again the Japanese pulled off amphibious landings that were thought to be impossible at the time. Look the Malaya campagin, no one thought the Japanese would be able to land in that kind of terrain in the first place, let alone skillfully and quickly fight their way down the lenght of the pennisula and invade Singapore. Also remember, the Japanese regularly out paced and out maneuvered the Biritsh and did so with out using Malayas limited roads but sticking to the hills, jungle and woods. The Japanese also managed to invade places alot further away from Japan then the west coast was, like the solomon islands, and, until the allies reallly started focusing on disrupting Japanese supply convoys to the island, were able to keep their army there well supplied
If I hear you correctly, you feel the allies were ready to invade europe ibefore June 6, 1944….but it was Winston Churchill who was scared of Hitler and didn’t want to? Interesting, fictional but interesting.
Its not fictional. Churchill was the man behind the Galipoli debacle in WW1, and he had pretty much seen amphibious assaults as to risky and frutiless since then. After the disaster Dieppe (valient effort by the Canadians anyhow) He had pretty much sworn off the idea. The British general staff, and Churchill, we’re the ones who pushed to dely the invasion of France again and again, fearing mass casualties which Britian could ill afford. The US, under Eisenhower, was pushing for a cross channel invasion no later the 1943 but we’re forced to push back the landings for a full year because of British uncertinty. This is not fiction, the D-day landings were a big risk for Britian and with the pounding they had taken the the 39-42 period it was taking them time to mass the manpower and equipmewnt together. If British had suffered mass casualties then that would have been it for them, they were scarping the bottom of the manpower barrel. In the end, all that catuion turned out to be for naught as the allies pushed to shore with minimal casualties. The atlantic wall was still under construction in 1943 and would have been even less of an issue then it was in 44. The allies could have successfuly invaded Europe in 1943 had it not been for the concerns and fears of Winston Churchill
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The fact is, when the allies did D-Day in June 1944 they were LUCKY it worked. So the fact it was pretty much sheer luck it worked proved they were NOT ready prior to June 1944 nor would the Japanese even under the most widely optimistic premises. I can’t see any combination of factors what would render this possible in any timeline, never mind one that provides for the conquest of the US before they get the atom bomb.
Clyde, are you from the Americas? Do you have any idea how huge the continent is? I live next to a lake that has more surface area then England. All of Japan could fit neatly in a small southern portion of my province, many US states are larger than Japan.
Again, look at D-Day, the staging area was 20 miles away from the coast, not 3500 miles. They had to sail 110 miles to the landing beach, not 3500 miles. The allies had oil, the axis didn’t.
I like movies too where the good guy runs past 850 dudes firing machine guns, they all miss, the good guy tosses a grenade and kills all 850 bad guys and gets the chick. Carry on with your scenario.
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Clyde, I’d like you to cite anything that indicated the allies were ready to invade Europe by 1943. The fact is that the operation was lucky to work, the fact Hitlers orders prevented a counter attack that was designed to push them back into the ocean would to me indicate an earlier date would have been a worse date.
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Clyde, are you from the Americas? Do you have any idea how huge the continent is? I live next to a lake that has more surface area then England.
Born and raised in New England thank you very much, and do tell what lake that is, cause that sounds like non-sense to me if you’re talking about the great lakes.
D-day was not luck, and hitlers orders to counter-attack would have been about as effective as they we’re at Anzio, only less so because of the overwhelming air superiority and concentration of naval power. Seriously you’re treating D-day like it was a long shot and seem to completely forget a number of other amphibious operations that were under taken by the Allies, and the Axis, during the war that were (in some cases anyway) under worse conditions then D-Day. Look at the Anzio landings for instance, where the allies nearly were pushed into the sea, or look at the battles in the pacific, like Japans invasion of Burma, or the Solomons and Papua. In these instances the powers involved had to over come both logisitical and distance problems as well as enemy opisition, but the landings went off with reasonable success (granted the Japanese were eventually defeated in papua and the solomons, but were still able to give battle for about a year or more in both instances, but the landings worked).
As I mentioned earlier I dont want to give things away before I post them, but I feel I should mention that while the Japanese in this scenario will in fact invade the continental US, they’re not going to conqure it and march on washington D.C., that would be impossible, they are going to invade.
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Cylde85, your refined scenario is interesting, but KurtGodel7 is correct, my loyalties are to Canada as I am a Canuckian. The Mexican angle might help, but then again the mexican mainland is that much further away from Japan.
It’s not that I am hostile to the idea of the US being invaded, heck, Canadians…errrr, the British as Canada didn’t exist…The British and what would become Canada did invade the US mainland and burned the US capital to the ground. I just think its too much of a stretch to contemplate a sustained Jap invasion.
If I hear you correctly, you feel the allies were ready to invade europe ibefore June 6, 1944…but it was Winston Churchill who was scared of Hitler and didn’t want to? Interesting, fictional but interesting.
My point was, the allies were not ready to invade europe until about 14 months before the atom bomb was ready, there is NO WAY Japan would be ready by June 6, 1944 or June 6 1948. By the time they built up enough of an invasion force say a few years longer than the allies required for D-Day they would be facing a nuclear armed enemy. The fact is, the US had such a huge production advantage its just too implausible for me to entertain seriously.
I think perhaps if Japan had NOT done pearl harbour. Had just gone after the British and commonwealth countries, the dutch east indies…that the US might not want to fight for somebody else.
By attacking the US in the way they did…only pissed them off. It made it easy to put the entire continent on a war footing in production which the Germans NEVER did pull off until it was much much too late.
Now, you spin a scenario in which the US never enters the war, europe collapses, the axis owning everything but the americas… The both the US and Germany get nuclear weapons and a stalemate along the lines of the cold war develop. Still no Jap invasion could occur.
I dont think the U.S having Nuclear weapons is a foregone conclusion had they not been involved in WW2. No U.S involvement in WW2 means the depression likely would of continued for years to come in the United States. Building Nuclear weapons even during the war would of likely had its detractors due its massive costs, but building nuclear weapons during a time of economic collapse seems somewhat implausible especially with the United States isolationist tendencies pre December 7, 1941. Also had the Nazi’s/Japanese empire controlled basically all of Eurasia and Africa and had Nuclear weapons the Nazi’s would of had an adaquate delivery system much quicker than the United States in the form of a rocket likely derived from the V2. The United States would of had no airbase to launch a bomber to attack Germany with either had the Axis powers won the war. Provided a B-29 bomber would of ever been built without the war.
The United States rocket program only got off the ground once they brought in German engineers like Werner von Braun.
A Nuclear armed Germany who controlled more than half the world VS a United States still struggling economically and who had strong isolationist tendencies. I know which one I would put my money on. But I digress I dont think any armed conflict would of occured between a Nuclear United States and Germany/Imperial Japan, with the resources of basically the entire world outside of the America’s at their disposal the Axis powers could stir up pro-Axis revolutions in Central and South America to the point where an eventual fifth column would make the United States capitulate.
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By the time pearl harbour occured, the depression was over.
The attack on Pearl did bring the US into the War.
The scenario laid out has Japan attacking Pearl so the US would have been at war.
After the attack the US had the bomb within 4 years.
The Japs would not be ready to launch an invasion fleet that dwarfed the D-Day invasion fleet in less than 4 years.
The Japs would need an invasion fleet that made the D-Day invasion fleet look tiny.
If Japan was to invade the US, the US would not need long range bombers to attack the invasion fleet with nuclear weapons.
Therefore in my opinion, it seems a bit silly to entertain this scenario. Might as well project what would happen if Canada were to conquer the US and force them to have universal health care.
I do stand corrected, England has about the same surface area as the great lakes combined.
If Japan managed to land say, 5 million soldiers on the mainland, that would be about 1 soldier for every 2 square miles of North America. Tough to occupy 2 square miles with 1 dude.
So again, somehow this occurs. Yep, and Rambo never gets killed either.
I don’t think my skepticism should prevent this from being fleshed out however. I remain unconvinced its a serious possibility given the scenario as it started out.
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Therefore in my opinion, it seems a bit silly to entertain this scenario. Might as well project what would happen if Canada were to conquer the US and force them to have universal health care.
Intresting thoughts indeed but there is a recurring problem Im seeing with your posts. You seem to equate the word Invade to mean the same as Conquer and I think you know they mean very different things. You might Invade something you wanted to Conquer but having Invaded dosnt mean you’re going to Conquer the blasted thing. If we were talking about Japan Conquering the US i’d be right with you in the chours of unbelievability but thats not what we’re talking about. Im talking about the Japanese Invading the US and depending on how you want to count Hawaii I’ve already successfully done that and could rightfully knock off for lunch now. However, I believe im more responsable then that and do intend to resolve this scenario (just when im not at work and have my notes from home in front of me)
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Other than Dieppe, name me an invasion where they expected to lose and retreat?
Ok, so the scenario is that Japan invades the US but never planned to win and planned to have to retreat. Sure, they could sneak a sub in, land an inflatable raft and invade with 12 commandos.
Mission accomplished.
Next……
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I think I read in one of my books where Japan made subs that would carry a plane inside it, Surface assemble and load with bomb and hit the Panama Canal or another important target. Maybe even carry troops
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