How to counter J3 India Crush?

[calvinhobbesliker]

No, the carrier is stripped down and the planes are replaced by planes from Japan

[jim010]

1 tav, 1tank, 1 art, 2 inf are more than enough to take Phi on the first turn.  The carrier in sz42 gets 2 fht

[WILD BILL]

@calvinhobbesliker:

No, the carrier is stripped down and the planes are replaced by planes from Japan

Ftr/tacs from Japan can’t make it to sz42

@jim010:

1 tav, 1tank, 1 art, 2 inf are more than enough to take Phi on the first turn.  The carrier in sz42 gets 2 fht

Yea Jap should win the battle, but it could cost them a couple of precious ground units. What are the odds on this battle. Better yet what are the odds that it goes two rounds.

[calvinhobbesliker]

Sorry, I confused it with Z44

[jim010]

Yea Jap should win the battle, but it could cost them a couple of precious ground units. What are the odds on this battle. Better yet what are the odds that it goes two rounds.

You should win with the tank and tac.  I don’t need the 2 inf and art to take Ind

Ftr/tacs from Japan can’t make it to sz42

I take the fht from For and sz33.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@jim010:

Yea Jap should win the battle, but it could cost them a couple of precious ground units. What are the odds on this battle. Better yet what are the odds that it goes two rounds.

You should win with the tank and tac.  I don’t need the 2 inf and art to take Ind

Ftr/tacs from Japan can’t make it to sz42

I take the fht from For and sz33.

What if the ftr dies in Z37?

[jim010]

I’ll lose a bmb instead.  sz42 must have both fht.

[jim010]

I don’t often get attacked there anyway, and when I do, it is usually bad for the UK, not me.  I take it to prevent the Allies from locking it down with planes, or doing a fht transfer.

[jim010]

Yea Jap should win the battle, but it could cost them a couple of precious ground units. What are the odds on this battle. Better yet what are the odds that it goes two rounds.

I win 83%, usually should be with the tac and tank.

[Buckeyeboy]

@jim010:

I don’t need the 2 inf and art to take Ind

Indiana?

Sorry, I failed geography.

(Disclaimer: This is Kaufschtick, I’m in Dayton at Buckeyeboys place…don’t ask me how many beers I’ve had… :-P)

[jim010]

The abreviations used are from the battlemap used here to play online.

Phi is Philipines
Ind is India

[Buckeyeboy]

@jim010:

Yea Jap should win the battle, but it could cost them a couple of precious ground units. What are the odds on this battle. Better yet what are the odds that it goes two rounds.

I win 83%, usually should be with the tac and tank.

Jim, Tim and I set up the game, played OOB. Can you give us some idea of a typical situation on J2 as far as what Japan has in SZs 37 & 38, ship wise?

We felt that there existed the possibility of a B1 (2) x DD buy, to then attack into one of these two SZs and possibly close the front door on the Japanese to India.

PS- This is Kaufschtick, sitting here with Buckeyeboy, we’d offer you a beer, but it’d be warm by the time you got here.

So we already drank it. :-D

[Buckeyeboy]

@jim010:

The abreviations used are from the battlemap used here to play online.

Phi is Philipines
Ind is India

Sorry, we’re in the Big Ten.

[jim010]

Without seeing where the Allies are, I really can’t say.

[Buckeyeboy]

@jim010:

Without seeing where the Allies are, I really can’t say.

We had the US at start at Pearl, of course. 2 x US bmbr, ftr & Db at Queensland.

China counter-attacked Yunnan (and won, 3 inf survived)

Britian bought 2 x DD

ANZAC Queensland ftr to Singapore, the rest of the ANZACer ftrs to Queensland.

[WILD BILL]

@pusfilledwart:

India Crush doesnt mean game is over. i got “crushed” and still won as the allies. Korea is the weak link for Nippon. some may disagree with that but in time you will see,young ones. 8-)

I think Korea could be the best move for the allies. Would you be ballsy enough to try it US3, while Jap navy and air force is out of range (doing India crush).

Rd#1 US could buy 2 tpts and would now have 3 (figured they lost the one at Pearl) and you have the troops to load all 3.
Anz move sub towards Hawaii (target of opportunity ?), load one inf on tpt and move to NZ w/DD.

Rd#2 send US navy and all air to Midway and buy NB there for range. Jap would have to block 3 sz’s to keep you out of sz6 (and it won’t have 3 ships at home). Send 4 Anz ftrs, DD, and loaded tpt to Hawaii.

At this point Jap has bought its AB/NB on Kwangsi, and has its air/navy there ready to attack India (spent most of its $). It hasn’t bought any ships other then trps. It has to decide to come back home to def Korea, or proceed with the India crush. Chances are that it will split its force and try to do both. Maybe send some of its air home to scramble, as it will need much of its fleet in the Indian ocean to protect its transports and run blocker.

Depending on what Jap does the US must decide to go forward w/Korea plan or abort. It would have SS, DD CR, BB, CV (loaded), the 2 bmrs, and 3 trpts (loaded) to send to sz 6 to face scramble (and maybe a couple Jap ships. That’s a sizable force (absorb up to 11 hits), but Jap could easily detour the US if it wants to. If Jap returns home with 1/2 its air force (10-12 planes), would it have enough to do the India crush, or would it have to call it off. If it still does India crush will Jap loose a chunk of its air in the process (the battle would go longer).

If Jap doesn’t keep enough units at home (miss judges the US force intentions) the US may just attempt an amphib on a Korea, especially if it is unoccupied. It would have the 6 ground units to take it + the 2 Anz inf, and 4 Anz ftrs could noncombat in from Hawaii (the US/Anz could take out blocker with sub/air if there is one). Could also bring the Anz DD if you need it. Jap won’t have trpts at home (they went to India), and the Manchurian force is deep into China, so Jap can’t take it back. The next round the US brings in the rest of its air force, and builds a major IC. If US or Anz is able to block the Jap fleet from returning home, it might even get to build its 10 units.

I know its along shot that the US will succeed (or even follow through), but just the immediate threat could sway the J3 India crush, or at least weaken the Jap force involved causing Jap to loose more units then it normally would. If the Jap navy is in a hurry to get back home, it might not be able to get the DEI either.

Its rather late (after 3:00 am in Mich), so I’m not sure if this is all making sense or not, especially to the guys south of the Michigan border in Dayton (I hear they’ve been drinking again).

[Damsbo]

I would say Korea is not a viable strategy against an experienced japanese player. But ofcourse its always good to put pressure on japan and it might get you a couple of cheap kills on screening destroyers.

Having played a couple of games against Jim with this strategy i would say it is near impossible to beat at least in the beginning.
As the brittish you need to think on how to sell yourself as dearly as possible, and not how you can stop the japanese. The best you can hope for is to delay the japanese to turn 4, but even the chances of doing this are small.

In my limited experince there are two decent counter strategies for the Brittish.

One is to move everything to Burma Turn 1 in order to trade your units for japanese air units. This also requires you to use your navy to screen Burma from the japanese transports. The japanese player will propably attack you with only air, because if he doesnt you will likely be able to hold India to turn 4. With good rolls this move can be expensive for the japanese player, and perhaps help the US hold Caroline islands later on.

Another option is to buy Mech infantry the first turn in order to counter-attack yunan and Shan state Turn 2. This still requires you to screen off Burma. With this strategy you get to kill some japanese ground units witch can ease some of the pressure on the chinese. You also have a small chance of delaying the japanese to turn 4. But the biggest benefit is to help the chinese, and it can be a good oppertunity to move the brittish air to China witch enables you to drag out the chinese war a lot longer.

I know this just scratches the surface, and please do post if anyone has seen other options.

[jim010]

Here are my Jap 1 turn moves.  I can alter it a bit, as there is plenty of room to change it.

JP1.AAM

[jim010]

Here’s what it would look like after the battles running to odds and NCM.

JP1_finish.AAM

[jim010]

After that it entirely depends on where the Allies move to and buy.

I don’t claim to win every time, as s#!t happens and mistakes are made, but I do claim I’ll win 3/4.