Nuclear Iran

[Emperor_Taiki]

@Omega:

I wouldn’t put Israel in the good guys yet. Seems like they are hated by most of their neighbours for some reasons (and not just because they hate them, but it seems Israel isn’t exactly kind neither). Plus, at the moment, UN is accusing Israel of War crimes (much like the terrorists).

But even so, I still believe, based on personal feelings, that Israel is a better country than Iran to live in. Women have much more rights in Israel I believe. More freedom, etc. They can be criteria, some kinds of criteria. But I doubt everyone would agree on those criteria.
Say us WEstern. We believe in freedom of speech. So a country is “better” than another one if that freedom of speech is more guaranteed.
Now, there are cultures in this world that does not believe in freedom of speech.

In my opinion, freedom of speech is a fundamental right. But how are we to argue with someone that has a completly different logic than ours? This is usually the problem with Middle-East. Islam mostly. Their women, for example, in some countries, never knew “equality” with men. To them, its absolutely normal to be inferior to men.
Now, to us, clearly, this is barbaric. But again, its in their culture/religion.

There might be absolutes. But to find them, we must first have an international agreement. Not all countries have signed the human rights chart.
We should criticize them. But we shouldn’t try to force them into thinking like us even if we are right (I sincerely hope we are right).

Watch this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX6vyT8RzMo&feature=player_embedded

The UN is not useless, its evil, a PR tool of terrorists.

I dont want to get into an arguement about religion, but although it is important to understand somones culture and relgion to understand where they are coming from, it is not good enough to say something is okay because of religion or culture, because they are traditions and are not nessisarly logical or rational. It was the culture of the South to have slaves, it was the culture of Europe to hate Jews.

And in regards to freedom in islamic soceity, your also assuming that simply because you want to discuss these issues, that islamic extremist want to discuss these issues to. You dont properly grasp their culture, they dont want to discuss anything with you because your an infidel. To  them your part of a hedonistic culture that they feel should be destoyed and and the wost of them will fight us until we are all converted.

Even if the majoirty of muslims embrace western values, the islamists have all the power and fear, and their influence and is only growing, especailly in western Europe.

[ABWorsham4]

@Emperor_Taiki:

@Omega:

I wouldn’t put Israel in the good guys yet. Seems like they are hated by most of their neighbours for some reasons (and not just because they hate them, but it seems Israel isn’t exactly kind neither). Plus, at the moment, UN is accusing Israel of War crimes (much like the terrorists).

But even so, I still believe, based on personal feelings, that Israel is a better country than Iran to live in. Women have much more rights in Israel I believe. More freedom, etc. They can be criteria, some kinds of criteria. But I doubt everyone would agree on those criteria.
Say us WEstern. We believe in freedom of speech. So a country is “better” than another one if that freedom of speech is more guaranteed.
Now, there are cultures in this world that does not believe in freedom of speech.

In my opinion, freedom of speech is a fundamental right. But how are we to argue with someone that has a completly different logic than ours? This is usually the problem with Middle-East. Islam mostly. Their women, for example, in some countries, never knew “equality” with men. To them, its absolutely normal to be inferior to men.
Now, to us, clearly, this is barbaric. But again, its in their culture/religion.

There might be absolutes. But to find them, we must first have an international agreement. Not all countries have signed the human rights chart.
We should criticize them. But we shouldn’t try to force them into thinking like us even if we are right (I sincerely hope we are right).

Watch this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX6vyT8RzMo&feature=player_embedded

The UN is not useless, its evil, a PR tool of terrorists.

I dont want to get into an arguement about religion, but although it is important to understand somones culture and relgion to understand where they are coming from, it is not good enough to say something is okay because of religion or culture, because they are traditions and are not nessisarly logical or rational. It was the culture of the South to have slaves, it was the culture of Europe to hate Jews.

And in regards to freedom in islamic soceity, your also assuming that simply because you want to discuss these issues, that islamic extremist want to discuss these issues to. You dont properly grasp their culture, they dont want to discuss anything with you because your an infidel. To  them your part of a hedonistic culture that they feel should be destoyed and and the wost of them will fight us until we are all converted.

Even if the majoirty of muslims embrace western values, the islamists have all the power and fear, and their influence and is only growing, especailly in western Europe.

I agree with Emperor, the U.N is not a chivalist organization. It’s greatly flawed and corrupt.

[dezrtfish]

Let me chime in on this discussion with some information I have learned firsthand.  I spent the last year having discussions with detained suspected terrorists.  I can’t get into allot of details.  But I can tell you I’ve learned allot about a sect of Shia Islam known as Imami Shia.  Imamist believe that the “Antichrist” is a force of evil they see this force manifested in the US and its colony Israel.  They believe that prior to the return or the Twelfth Imam - Muhammad ibn Hasan who has been in hiding for over 1000 years, the world must be descended into apocalypse.  The Imamists believe that war with the west is inevitable and the result will be the reemergence of the twelfth Imam as well as Jesus, the resurrection.

90% of Iran is Imamist Shia including Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Ayatollah Khomeini.

For me that is reason enough to do everything we can to keep Iran from getting Nuclear weapons.

[Corbeau Blanc]

99% of the world population suffers from mass delusion.

Religion is like a widespread disease, everyone is being brain washed to beileive the version of the god or gods been imprinted into their crazed mind is the ‘‘right and only one real truth’’.

They can’t even think by themselves. They go about their live without challenging anything intellectually, always going the easy route. Race, religion, country… like theses things had any meaning. It’s the same sh*t everwhere.

So why would I care if Iran get the bomb based on some assumption of their religion? In my mind, anyone who beleive in religion is a dangerous monkey, so we cannot be worse than we already are far being close to a total global human failure.

[Emperor_Taiki]

@Corbeau:

In my mind, anyone who beleive in religion is a dangerous monkey, so we cannot be worse than we already are far being close to a total global human failure.

Sure, religion is baseless, but to say everyone who beleives in relgion is a dangerous monkey is quite bigoted. 100% of the world suffers from mass delusion, even if your a non-belevier everyone is crazy in their own way and in ways common to others.

Imamist Shiaism does sound scary, but I feel Iran is simply a threat because they are a geopolitical rival. The Islamistisation of Islamic youth around the world and particularly in western euorpe is a whole nother issue, although it is equally if not more grave.

[Emperor_Taiki]

@dezrtfish:

I spent the last year having discussions with detained suspected terrorists.  I can’t get into allot of details.

can we have some more details?

[Guest]

If you can believe in religion, you can believe anything.

[idk_iam_swiss]

hooray! desert pinguens!

[Guest]

……and polar vultures.

[ABWorsham4]

Why has this post taken the direction of attack people of faith?

[Guest]

It is not an attack, it is just another point of view.

[Jermofoot]

@Brain:

If you can believe in religion, you can believe anything.

That is a necessary and essential component to faith.

[Corbeau Blanc]

@ABWorsham:

Why has this post taken the direction of attack people of faith?

You can’t attack the immaginary.

[dezrtfish]

@Emperor_Taiki:

@dezrtfish:

I spent the last year having discussions with detained suspected terrorists.  I can’t get into allot of details.

can we have some more details?

I was the intelegence section chief for a detainee compound in Iraq.

[Jermofoot]

@dezrtfish:

Let me chime in on this discussion with some information I have learned firsthand.  I spent the last year having discussions with detained suspected terrorists.  I can’t get into allot of details.  But I can tell you I’ve learned allot about a sect of Shia Islam known as Imami Shia.  Imamist believe that the “Antichrist” is a force of evil they see this force manifested in the US and its colony Israel.  They believe that prior to the return or the Twelfth Imam - Muhammad ibn Hasan who has been in hiding for over 1000 years, the world must be descended into apocalypse.  The Imamists believe that war with the west is inevitable and the result will be the reemergence of the twelfth Imam as well as Jesus, the resurrection.

90% of Iran is Imamist Shia including Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Ayatollah Khomeini.

I think this is as true as much as the US Christians that think the same thing will happen with the Second Coming and we will need to nuke some nonbelievers to achieve our rapture.

[ABWorsham4]

@Jermofoot:

@dezrtfish:

Let me chime in on this discussion with some information I have learned firsthand.  I spent the last year having discussions with detained suspected terrorists.  I can’t get into allot of details.  But I can tell you I’ve learned allot about a sect of Shia Islam known as Imami Shia.  Imamist believe that the “Antichrist” is a force of evil they see this force manifested in the US and its colony Israel.  They believe that prior to the return or the Twelfth Imam - Muhammad ibn Hasan who has been in hiding for over 1000 years, the world must be descended into apocalypse.  The Imamists believe that war with the west is inevitable and the result will be the reemergence of the twelfth Imam as well as Jesus, the resurrection.

90% of Iran is Imamist Shia including Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Ayatollah Khomeini.

I think this is as true as much as the US Christians that think the same thing will happen with the Second Coming and we will need to nuke some nonbelievers to achieve our rapture.

There is no doubt that radials exist in every branch of faith.

[U-505]

The riots in Iran over the disputed election results are more than enough evidence to prove that the entire country isn’t totally united under a radical fundamentalist umbrella. They WILL be if we preemptively attack them, though.

[Jermofoot]

@ABWorsham:

@Jermofoot:

@dezrtfish:

Let me chime in on this discussion with some information I have learned firsthand.  I spent the last year having discussions with detained suspected terrorists.  I can’t get into allot of details.  But I can tell you I’ve learned allot about a sect of Shia Islam known as Imami Shia.  Imamist believe that the “Antichrist” is a force of evil they see this force manifested in the US and its colony Israel.  They believe that prior to the return or the Twelfth Imam - Muhammad ibn Hasan who has been in hiding for over 1000 years, the world must be descended into apocalypse.  The Imamists believe that war with the west is inevitable and the result will be the reemergence of the twelfth Imam as well as Jesus, the resurrection.

90% of Iran is Imamist Shia including Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Ayatollah Khomeini.

I think this is as true as much as the US Christians that think the same thing will happen with the Second Coming and we will need to nuke some nonbelievers to achieve our rapture.

There is no doubt that radials exist in every branch of faith.

What I was trying to imply is that if they are around, they are by far a minority.

[dezrtfish]

LMAO, OK….

I will tell you that in that part of the world people aren’t as connected as you.  Schools in that part of the world are religious schools and they have no one to account to for what they teach.  There was a local national interpreter that I worked with who told me that when he was in grade school there was a day regularly where they burned the Israeli flag.

I’m not going to bother to try to convince anyone here or anywhere else, but I doubt you have any idea of what religious fundamentalism looks like or just how prevalent it is in the Middle East.

[Corbeau Blanc]

Well, If I take the 2nd presidential election between Bush and Kerry,
I think USA got a good look at what religious fundamentalism is, given that both candidate went to the Yales Universty and were buddies in Skull and Bones which has a strong protestant background.

Search a bit, you’ll see that that day there was no democraty, you basically had the choice between Skull and bones or bones and skull ( last quote not from me ).

Ironic also to see that a good part of theses guys familly fortunes were based on the opium market they were forcing upon China in the 1800’s , just to see them now condemn Afghans that produce opium. And how Iran is suddenly evil for trying to protect it’s frontiers with Irak which just pretty much got taken over?

Guys, there is a proverb: history repeat itself. You are playing a game on WWII and don’t even know how Roosevelt familly made it’s fortune, what were the economical interest of every actor and how it is still the same story today…  Also take alook at British interest in that zone backen then and which family/corporations were involved. Just get some books together, cross references, see who is controlling who. Is it THAT hard or you rather accept anything spoon fed as it is? Really, sometimes I’m discouraged.