Where to place Bid Builds?

[newpaintbrush]

You can do Turbo India with 1-2 Japanese infantry at French Indochina and/or tank at Kwangtung.

Similar bid in Africa (1-2 infantry at Libya and tank at Algeria) frees the German Med transport from having to hit Anglo-Egypt (allowing either a hold of Anglo-Egypt past G1, or threatened German fleet unification after Med fleet moves west)

Either way, the effect is quite good for Axis.  Turbo India lets the Japs take India early and put their IC there.  Holding Anglo-Egypt is excellent for Germany, as tank blitzes on G2 secure much of Africa.  Alternatively, German fleet unification allows for more high jinks.

I wouldn’t place 1 infantry in Ukraine.  If Russia does West Russia/Belorussia, the extra 1 German infantry in Ukraine is often mostly useless.  German infantry in Ukraine can force 3 Russian tanks to attack Ukraine if the Russian player is fixated on Ukraine/West Russia, but there’s no guarantee the Russian player will do that.

[DarthMaximus]

I like to use my bids all for Germany and all to Libya (or sz 14).

I think it gives you the most flexability since you can still bring 2 more units to Egy for an Egy Heavy attack, or you can go to Sz 13 and take Gib and save your sub (or attack sz 1), or you can also pull those units and counter in Europe if something goes bad on R1 and they leave a door open for you.

An all Europe bid cuts down some of those options since you are probably forced to send the trn and BB to sz 15 for help in Egy on G1.

I don’t like a split bid between territories b/c I still think it leaves you vulnerable in the Egy attack without bringing the trn/bb from sz 14.

I think Egy is a must win for Germany on G1 so I tend to err on the side of caution and will go extra heavy.  Now with an 8-9 bid to Lib I feel a lot better with the inf/arm or 3 inf that I don’t need the trn anymore and can hit Sz 13/Gib if I want to instead.

A tran bid to Sz 5 won’t work (for Sea Lion), Russia will land 2 ftrs in London and stop the attack.  
UK will have: 2 inf, 1 rt, 1 arm, 4 ftrs, 1 bom
Germany can attack with:  2 inf, 2 arm, 2 ftrs, 1 bom
Even with no planes shot down, UK should hold with 2-4 ftrs left.

[axis_roll]

@DarthMaximus:

A tran bid to Sz 5 won’t work (for Sea Lion), Russia will land 2 ftrs in London and stop the attack.  
UK will have: 2 inf, 1 rt, 1 arm, 4 ftrs, 1 bom
Germany can attack with:  2 inf, 2 arm, 2 ftrs, 1 bom
Even with no planes shot down, UK should hold with 2-4 ftrs left.

If I am Germany and Russia puts two ftrs in UK R1, I am very happy.

That means both ftrs did no combat or Norway was attacked with the karelia ftr, a less than optimal R1 attack since it can be easily countered with the 4 ground units from the sz5 tpts.

Either way, I’d be very happy.

Both russian ftrs are probably the safest play, but probably 1 is sufficient.

[frood]

I’ve done a variety of things… Usually I go with the Algeria/Libya bid, because as others have said it enables Germany to take Egypt (key for destroying a UK fighter and preventing the UK fleet from getting into the med) while still moving the Med fleet to Gibraltar, where it really keeps the allied shipping on its toes, esp. if a bunch of Ftrs are in WEU.

I’ve also done 1 TRN to Z14, but that extra TRN is a waste first round if you don’t go to Egypt.

Have also done the Turbo India thing, it’s not bad.

On the whole though, you can’t go wrong with putting the bid in North Africa. Any other choice is more “experimental”, at least for me. But if you are bored of the same old opening everytime, just try something new!

Anyone ever consider a Norway bid? Would Germany be free from having to abandon it then, if it reinforced it with the Baltic TRN? Interesting idea, but not looking at map right now…

[DarthMaximus]

@axis_roll:

@DarthMaximus:

A tran bid to Sz 5 won’t work (for Sea Lion), Russia will land 2 ftrs in London and stop the attack.  
UK will have: 2 inf, 1 rt, 1 arm, 4 ftrs, 1 bom
Germany can attack with:  2 inf, 2 arm, 2 ftrs, 1 bom
Even with no planes shot down, UK should hold with 2-4 ftrs left.

Both russian ftrs are probably the safest play, but probably 1 is sufficient.

True.

I don’t see the loss of the ftrs for a turn or two as that big of a deal.  You can still hammer Wrus with everything on R1 while Germany will be struggling in Afr and have no added units to help the push on Mos to show for it.

[Funcioneta]

The 2 USSR fighters in England is annonying … for USSR. It avoids any useful fighting in R1 (cannot hit west russia) and maybe even R2. And lets Caucasus almost undefended in R1 if you do Ucrania attack. Anyway, long range tech would still work, and i would happyly trade german fighters for soviet fighters plus 30 IPCs for conquering England.

And a trannie in Med. sea means, as i said, a race german vs japan for conquering India, even with IC

So, no bid greater than 7 for me. 9 is scary, lets german transport and 1 IPC for IPC+2 trans combo for Japan.

You could even buy a sub on sz8, try long range and volatilice the 2nd british battleship  :-o

[axis_roll]

@DarthMaximus:

@axis_roll:

@DarthMaximus:

A tran bid to Sz 5 won’t work (for Sea Lion), Russia will land 2 ftrs in London and stop the attack.  
UK will have: 2 inf, 1 rt, 1 arm, 4 ftrs, 1 bom
Germany can attack with:  2 inf, 2 arm, 2 ftrs, 1 bom
Even with no planes shot down, UK should hold with 2-4 ftrs left.

Both russian ftrs are probably the safest play, but probably 1 is sufficient.

True.

I don’t see the loss of the ftrs for a turn or two as that big of a deal.  You can still hammer Wrus with everything on R1 while Germany will be struggling in Afr and have no added units to help the push on Mos to show for it.

hmmm… 2 extra inf in karelia G1 is not considered pushing on Moscow?  
It’s analogous to Ukraine…

These are all very subtle differences and prone to personal strategic preference more than one bid placement being so much better than another.

Moreso, certain bids make certain allied things happen (i.e. russian ftrs in london).  Choose the bid that best supports the allied reaction you wish.

For example, if want your Ukraine ftr to live, put 2 units there.
OR
If you’re a firm believer of gathering African IPCs as fast as possible, place the units in Libya and also transport units to AES from southern.  Make AES impervious to a UK counter round 1.

Lots of options!

[Magister]

I’ve tested a bit with a Japanese arty in French Indochina. It does the work of a fighter in the battle for China, but often it’s not decisive later. And even then, there may be 1J situations even more overwhelming.
For the remaining 5 IPC: tank in Libya, or even inf (and save 2 for Japan to build 4 transports)

[Funcioneta]

True, but not all use the LH rules. And without long range, sub in sz8 means bomber, 1 fighter and 2 subs against 1 trannie, 1 sub, 1 BB(assume USSR joins fleet). You still have 3 fighters against Gibraltar BB and italian BB against Israel destroyer. German should save at least the bomber, maybe even the fighter.

[frood]

@axis_roll:

If you’re a firm believer of gathering African IPCs as fast as possible, place the units in Libya and also transport units to AES from southern.  Make AES impervious to a UK counter round 1.

I’ve actually attacked w/both TRN units AND bid units into Anglo-Egypt, and lost the battle as the germans, or had only 1-2 armor left for the UK to blow up. :(

It can happen more often than you think that you get no hits in your first attack, and then if the defender gets some, and your 2nd round is also sub-par… Hence I like to go for overkill. However I also like to move the med fleet west, so it’s usually just bid units for me that get used in Egypt (+ Libyan forces)

If only the Alg and Libya forces were switched around for G1, it would make G1 so much easier…

[Magister]

I liked Jap arty in French Indochina enough to test it repeatedly. Useful, but not as much as Libya. See “1UK explosion > 1J counter” topic.

Someone mentioned 2inf in Ukraine. I’ve even seen 3inf - totally deterrent, more than counterbalancing a weak Egypt. Forbidden in the TripleA Ladder to add more than 1 unit per area. Can anyone say in which tournament version is this allowed ?

[DarthMaximus]

@Funcioneta:

The 2 USSR fighters in England is annonying … for USSR. It avoids any useful fighting in R1 (cannot hit west russia) and maybe even R2. And lets Caucasus almost undefended in R1 if you do Ucrania attack.

Russia can still attack Wrus with 12 inf, 2 rt, 4 arm.  They take it out in one rd with 10 inf, 2 rt, 4 arm remaining.

It would be a bad bad bad idea to attack Ukr with 3 inf, 1 rt, 3 arm only and split the Wrus attack.

Leaving 1-2 inf Cauc on R1 is a nice way to get Germany to over extend early if they fall for the trap.

For your R2 attacks, your fts can still be used in Kar and you have Rt/arm for Belo/Ukr.

I see players constantly throwing away 3 Russian armor in Ukr on R1, so if you save them you are certainly free to use 1 or 2 on R2 if you need them.

@axis_roll:

@DarthMaximus:

I don’t see the loss of the ftrs for a turn or two as that big of a deal.  You can still hammer Wrus with everything on R1 while Germany will be struggling in Afr and have no added units to help the push on Mos to show for it.

hmmm… 2 extra inf in karelia G1 is not considered pushing on Moscow?  
It’s analogous to Ukraine…

Not really.  8 =/= 6   :-)
Why not just bid 6 then and place the units on Ukr?  Or bid the 8, place two inf on Belo or Ukr and have 2 extra in cash?  Why waste all 8 on a trn just to get 2 units to Kar during G’s NCM, you could even bid 6 to EE and do that.

Transporting 2 extra inf from Ger or WE to Kar is a whole territory behind direct placement on Belo or Ukr, at least those bids can be used to threaten Wrus/Cauc immediately.

IMO the only reason to bid to Sz 5 is to infact try and scare the UK since it is more cost effective to place the ground units directly in Europe or if you choose to go with a Germany naval strat b/c it is likely you’ll need to buy an AC on G1 for protection anyway, otherwise you’ll lose your bid trn to Allied aircraft in round 2.

[axis_roll]

Darth,

Are you a Caspian Sub member?
I am not a main stay there so I only know some of the members.

CSub is an advocate of the sz5 tpt bid as well as a third tpt on G1.

I like what is makes the allies do (like Russian ftrs in UK) as well as getting a quick channel of inf to karelia and norway trading.  You havent’ really commited that much $ in the navy ($16), so it might be worth it.  The allies will need to invest in some more planes to take out 2 subs, 3 tpts and a DD, so that’s another thing it makes the allies do… as well as not get too close to sz5 as those tpts are cheap fodder for the Luftwaffe.  At least THIS $16 does more than provide a landing strip for ftrs, it moves inf quicker to the front lines.

I am not the BIGGEST fan of this move, but I think it has some night merits, like many other bids.

[DarthMaximus]

No, I am not a member there, but I am aware of some of their ideas, although probably not in great detail.

I agree it could have merit, and like other bids might just come down to personal preference.

My main hang up is I typically don’t like to do anything that declares my intentions before I have to, and I think a bid to sz 5 does that.
I like a bit more flexability, and while the trn gives the Germans  flexability against the UK/Atalntic and Nor/Kar area it takes away from the Ukr/Cauc area which I feel is more important.  If I have the choice I want the Germans killing Russians units, not British or American.

I’m also not a big fan of building Germany naval units and I think that bid almost guarantees a naval buy for a follow-up (such as an AC or more trn(s), etc).

I also think many people under estimate how strong Russia can be, while one trn here or an AC there for Germany might not matter too much when trying to hold off Russia, if Germany starts getting too carried away Russia should most definitely make them pay for it.

[Jennifer]

I gotta try that one day. :)

If nothing else, it will save my 3 infantry in Belorussia.  That’s +9 IPC with the loss of 1 transport (a transport that makes good fodder while I shoot down British planes since most of you suicide against SZ 5.)

[newpaintbrush]

@Craig:

@Funcioneta:

True, but not all use the LH rules.

I understand, but most here are talking about this subject under the assumption that they are playing online in one of the forums and/or sites.  In those cases, LHTR are the rules that are normally used.

Maybe the original question needs to be stated with some parameters as to what context the game is being played under.  That way the bid discussion will be apples to apples.

Another example of this kind of misunderstanding is the difference between a bid that is given in online play versus one given in ftf tournament play.  Or even between different ftf tournaments because of differences in scoring systems, time limits for each game, and even whether the player/team that receives the bid can retain any leftover IPCs for use in a later turn.

Craig

I keep seeing this assumption where LHTR is the standard online.  I don’t think that’s true.

[Crazy Ivan]

:-o
This thread is going very well, so now I will define it a little better.
The bid of 9 IPC is the standard bid at the TripleA ladder gaming site. You can only place one unit per territory or sea zone that you have a combat unit in already at the start of the game. And no capitals may be attacked in the first game turn, so no Sea Lion is permitted.
I have played close to 100 games on the TripleA ladder site, and am slightly over 55% in victories both as the Axis and the Allied player, ( a challenge consists of 2 games, one as the Axis and one as the allies). So I am confident that the 9 IPC bid is a reasonable bid between players of a fairly equal skill level, ( let’s not go there again OK folks. I said fairly equal).
I can undestand that newer players think that 9 IPC is a lot, but with the restrictions on how to use the bid income, and turn one restrictions, it is not a game breaker on turn one or even turn two.
  One thing I’d like to remind everyone of is that if the Allies go for the KJF, would not the bulk of the bid IPC going to Japan help the axis cause more than putting all into Germanys’ campaigns in Europe, Africa, or Russia?
An extra Transport in the mid-Pacific for Japan could gain more IPC for Japan 2 to 3 turns faster than most standard game strategies.  :wink:
      :roll:

[Lucifer]

I’ve seen Jap trans bid in East Indies, but I don’t think that bid is better than the Libya/Algeria bid.
And I seen art+tank in Fic, Kwang, which let Jap take India early, and the tank in Kwang also threatens
J1 assault on Bury.
With Germany I always worry about the med., so I would go for Afr. just to keep allies take afr back
and so use a little more time before US can take SE.
As for bids generally, I will usually not play axis with less than 8 bid.

[Funcioneta]

Good analisis everyone. I’ll remember that LH stuff. Still I think letting axis get a free transport is too much, either in Mediterranean Sea or, as someone said, in East Indies or even Carolines (Australia conquered, J1  :-o). So never greater than 7 bid.

[Nix]

Strange that im the only one that think 1 trn SZ37 for japan and 1 ipc to japan is a killer bid.

Strat with Germany is to brace for impact from round 1. Making Japan the big bad boy coming on against russia with severe force.

UK will be crippled really quick, especially if they counter Egypt.