Axis can't win? IMO Allies can't win.



  • I’ve play tested several '41 scenarios (by myself maybe that’s a problem) and I don’t see how the Allies can win without favorable dice in the first 2 rounds.  Here’s my thoughts so feel free to flame me  :-).

    Without going into a long drawn out post on in depth strategies, I’ll just keep it simplistic and just mention the US which IMO is the key to Allied victory.  IMO the US can’t fight 2 fronts and be effective fast enough.  Even still, if they go KGF Japan becomes so strong that by turn 4 the US has to start worrying about the West Coast.  If they go KJF, Germany will be able to withstand any UK bombing raids or Atlantic Invasion with Italy aiding in the defense of the Atlantic Coast.  So without the UK and US having Heavy Bombers and Bombing Italy and Germany into the stone age.  How can the Allies win the '41 scenarios???



  • Actually, it is quite possible to win as allies, the only Axis victory I got was with NOs and a new strategy that I hadn’t used before.
    I have had one game without NOs where Russia was capable of taking France, but UK was doing bad so I let UK take it :-D.
    So in my opinion, the game is very balanced with NOs and favoring Allies without. Or maybe I’m just godlike with Russia 😉



  • @EEB:

    Actually, it is quite possible to win as allies, the only Axis victory I got was with NOs and a new strategy that I hadn’t used before.
    I have had one game without NOs where Russia was capable of taking France, but UK was doing bad so I let UK take it :-D.
    So in my opinion, the game is very balanced with NOs and favoring Allies without. Or maybe I’m just godlike with Russia 😉

    Russia was capable of taking France?:-o  You must be hellagood at rolling ones!!  😉



  • Well, germany had a naval build 1st turn, that might have something to do with it. He also focused more on Ukraine and East Poland; he had minimal force in Baltic States, so I took Finland 1st turn and Norway and Baltic States 2nd. So, by the 3rd turn, he was down 5, only up 3, + having to counter UK in Northwest Europe almost every turn. I’m still not sure how I did that awesome though.



  • @EEB:

    Well, germany had a naval build 1st turn, that might have something to do with it. He also focused more on Ukraine and East Poland; he had minimal force in Baltic States, so I took Finland 1st turn and Norway and Baltic States 2nd. So, by the 3rd turn, he was down 5, only up 3, + having to counter UK in Northwest Europe almost every turn. I’m still not sure how I did that awesome though.

    Yeah IMO a G1 naval build is foolish.  I like to go almost exclusively Tanks (dice rolls and UK naval battles pending) on G1 & G2 and push right up the middle thru E.Poland, the Baltic and Belorussia while taking the Karelia IC.

    If you have a game where a Russian player is able to push through to France, IMO the German player played VERY BADLY.



  • Well, the Axis player almost exclusively plays Allies, which he is good with, and Japan was doing great…but yeah, BAD German game.



  • i agree. the axis most certainly can (and do) win. i’ve seen both sides win, though, so it’s far from a one-sided scenario


  • 2007 AAR League

    from the games ive had here it looks like the allies have the advantage



  • Baloney…. I’ve proven on multiple occasions that I can lose no matter which side I play.  😮



  • played yet another game tonight where the axis won. definitely not slanted heavily in-favour of the allies


  • 2007 AAR League

    of course the axis can win, im just saying i think i will win 65 to 70 percent of the time if i play allies



  • @tcnance:

    of course the axis can win, im just saying i think i will win 65 to 70 percent of the time if i play allies

    How many games have you played as the allies against how many different axis players?



  • @Stoob:

    4 games, all 1941 scenario.

    3 of 4 games were with N.O. – 1 without.

    If we play with N.O., the Axis have won 2 times.
    1 time the Allies won with N.O.
    The 1 game without N.O., the Allies won.

    That’s my experience.

    I always play with NO and Tech.  So just out of curiosity, the game where the Allies won, were dice a factor?  I mean did the Allies had favorable rolls?  And the 2 games where the Axis won was it a somewhat easy victory even without favorable dice?



  • Those from Boardgamegeek report that Axis wins most games.

    This is due to the fact that excluding Russia and China, the Allies can’t reinforce Eurasia directly, instead they have to build a fleet of transports with escorts, overall costing them money and time.  As a result, by the time Britain and America start getting their act together, the Axis conquers all of Eurasia, nabbing a bunch of NOs and VCs in the process.



  • The Axis SHOULD be winning more than the Allies right now imo. Axis playout is much more linear (relative to the Allies), and requires much less coordination. The best Allied strats simply take longer to “figure out” than the Axis ones. In time, the Allies will no doubt look stronger. I’d be worried about play balance if the Allies were already winning 50% of matches.



  • @Unknown:

    The Axis SHOULD be winning more than the Allies right now imo. Axis playout is much more linear (relative to the Allies), and requires much less coordination. The best Allied strats simply take longer to “figure out” than the Axis ones. In time, the Allies will no doubt look stronger. I’d be worried about play balance if the Allies were already winning 50% of matches.

    Huh…interesting take US.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Right now it seems the axis are winning more often than the allies, about 2:1 but that is dwindling as allied players learn to conserve and focus their energies.

    Right now the idea is to ignore Japan.  This has been great for me, I’ve always loved the Kill America First strategy and with America totally ignoring me, I get to employ it over, and over and over again with impunity!



  • Ignoring Japan vs a good Axis TEAM should result in an Axis win more often than not IME. It really doesnt come as a surprise that people are thinking the Axis have some sort of advantage if the Allies are still trying KGF…



  • KGF means even more axis victories. The bad news is that even a balanced strat still gives advantage to axis due their superior economic potential  😛 Lesser than in KGF, of course


  • Moderator

    I think the tourney should go a long way to settling things.  32 players, 5 rds.  IMO, the first two rds will probably just get rid of the bad strategies regardless of side, but I would think when we get to the final 8-4-2 if one side has an adv we’ll see it in those final games.



  • I’m just praying I get axis all rounds … but agreed, so high amount of games will show finally who has the advantage [low voice]the axis[/low voice]


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    I don’t know if there is an advantage yet.  As I said, the ratio is dwindling as players figure out how to utilize America and England and build up Russia.

    Problem is, in this game especially, you CANNOT LEAVE JAPAN ALONE!  Even a modest effort at annoying them can save the game for the Allies.

    But honestly, a highly focused, at all costs attack on Japan can eliminate them from the game as well.  They start with a strong navy, but it’s just a navy guys.  A dozen Russians supported by a tank or two and the British setting up strong in Egypt or India (depending on what happened round 1) and you can stop the Japanese dead at the cost of giving Italy 20+ and Germany 50+. (Better than Italy at 10, Germany at 40 and Japan at 80 though!)



  • @Cmdr:

    A dozen Russians supported by a tank or two and the British setting up strong in Egypt or India (depending on what happened round 1) and you can stop the Japanese dead at the cost of giving Italy 20+ and Germany 50+. (Better than Italy at 10, Germany at 40 and Japan at 80 though!)

    That’s an interesting statement.  Does that mean that you believe “Focus on Japan First” is more viable in AA50?

    I agree that Japan can be forced into the defensive by a strong USA push, but US has to start right away and as strong as possible.  Add a <favorable>tech (or two) for the US and Japan can be in a world of hurt.</favorable>



  • @Funcioneta:

    KGF means even more axis victories.

    Okay, I’ll bite. I don’t see a whole lot of folks touting KJF as a primary strategy. Are you then referring to KIF, or something else? For my part, I just kind of lump Germany and Italy together and consider going after either as KEF (kill Europe first).


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    It has been my experience thus far that it is easier to crack the Japanese nut than it is the German one.

    Why?  I don’t know for sure, but I have some thoughts.

    1)  Japan starts with 17 IPC.  Yes, that jumps to near 40 really fast, but it’s still like having half a pay check and one spent on transports usually.

    2)  Japan takes 6 rounds to have any reasonable chance of invading Novosibirsk and Kazakh.  I don’t care what your dice were, it’s still 5 rounds to walk there and you have to get through the Chinese and Russians first.

    3)  America has 48 IPC routinely.  This can be dropped to 43 IPC but not reliably if America is going strong Pacific.

    4)  Japan’s basically fighting on four fronts if you go navy.  They have to keep up with you, at least to slow you down.  They have to take out China for money.  They have to deal with the Russians from the north and from the west.  And they have England from the “south” if England set up an IC in India or Australia or Egypt (I like Egypt because many Germans are not attacking it anymore and that means I can easily have 4 inf, art, fig, bmb there before Italy.)


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