Questions about AAguns



  • Hi everyone,

    I have some questions about AAguns, notably when they are taken several times by each power.

    For instance, at the first turn, USA takes Algeria and come here with their AAgun of Eastern USA.
    Turn 2. Germany liberate Algeria. The AAgun becomes german.
    Turn 2. England takes back Algeria. Who get the AAgun ? USA or England ?

    Second example. After several turns, English AAgun from India is in Kazakh. Japan takes it and so get the AAgun. Then, USA liberate this territory. Who get the AAgun ? England ? USA ? Russia ?

    When I read the rules and the faq, I come to the conclusion that when you take a territory, you get the AAgun. But when you liberate a territory, the AAgun is given to the country which owns the territory.

    Am I Right ?

    PS: I think that tripleA doesn’t run very well with this point. I have experience of several experiences which should have the same result but in practivce had different ones.


  • 2007 AAR League

    I believe they go to whoever captures them. That’s what I recall TripleA doing. This would certainly apply to an IC built in EEU by the UK, liberated by Germany and then taken by the US.

    If however the AA is in a friendly territory that you are liberating, maybe then the AA would go back to to your ally.

    So maybe the answer is that it depends on who is awarded control of the territory.



  • 😮
    The AA gun always belongs to the original owner, except when captured by an opponent or, after the original player losses their capital, then it will belong to whomever has it in their territory. 😉


  • Official Q&A

    The answer is actually fairly simple, and is the same in the box rules and LHTR, with one small exception.

    When a territory changes hands, the ownership of any IC and/or AA guns in that territory changes with it.  Whoever gains control of the territory gains control of the IC and/or AA guns IC.  It doesn’t matter who the original owner of the AA gun or IC was.

    The small difference between OOB and LHTR concerns situations where territories have been captured when they would have otherwise been liberated because a capital was under enemy control.  Say Russia and Karelia have been captured by Germany.  If the US captures Karelia, it gains control of the territory because the Soviet capital is enemy-held.  It also gains control of any IC and/or AA guns there, because control of these transfers with control of the territory.  If the US then liberates Russia, control of Karelia (along with any other territories held by allies) reverts to the USSR.  Control of any ICs in these territories also reverts to the USSR.  Under the OOB rules, the USSR would also gain control of any AA guns in these territories.  Under LHTR, the AA guns would remain under the control of the country that captured the territory (the US in Karelia’s case).

    In an attempt to forestall the inevitable arguments that come up with this topic, I’ll post a link to a previous discussion:

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=10974.0



  • thanks for the answers ! (I hadn’t seen the previous discussion)



  • Kreig has it correct.



  • @frood:

    I believe they go to whoever captures them. That’s what I recall TripleA doing. This would certainly apply to an IC built in EEU by the UK, liberated by Germany and then taken by the US.

    If however the AA is in a friendly territory that you are liberating, maybe then the AA would go back to to your ally.

    So maybe the answer is that it depends on who is awarded control of the territory.

    FWIW, TripleA actually gets this wrong.  I had a game where I captured SEU with the UK and the AA there turned green and became US controlled (the yanks had dropped it there during previous trading) instead of going over to the UK who now controlled the territory.  (At least the old Patched/hacked PBF version worked that way.  I haven’t had the opportunity to see how this is handled in the newer versions.)



  • Another question… (if this has been covered already, I apologize)
    Can the US (Eastern) bring both transports with 2 infantry, 1 tank, and 1 AA and conduct an amphibious assault on Algeria?  I know that the AA gun can’t fire or anything, I’m just wondering if you can bring it with since this would be a combat move.
    Thanks!



  • @captainjack:

    Another question… (if this has been covered already, I apologize)
    Can the US (Eastern) bring both transports with 2 infantry, 1 tank, and 1 AA and conduct an amphibious assault on Algeria?  I know that the AA gun can’t fire or anything, I’m just wondering if you can bring it with since this would be a combat move.
    Thanks!

    I think you have to unload it in the ncombat phase.but i have a aa-gun question too. if you sbr italy and goes over france or germany do you have to take aa-gun flack twice. and also if you are just passing over france to get to the med. do you get attacked along the way? I think the answer depends on the rule set. that why i think i’m confused.



  • The way I understand it is that any time a fighter or bomber flies over a territory with an AA gun, they get to fire.


  • Official Q&A

    @captainjack:

    Another question… (if this has been covered already, I apologize)
    Can the US (Eastern) bring both transports with 2 infantry, 1 tank, and 1 AA and conduct an amphibious assault on Algeria?  I know that the AA gun can’t fire or anything, I’m just wondering if you can bring it with since this would be a combat move.
    Thanks!

    Under the box rules, if the AA gun was already loaded onto a transport at the beginning of the turn, the other units could load and then amphibious assault during combat movement, then the AA gun could unload during noncombat movement.  If the AA gun was not already on a transport, it would need to load onto the transport, move and unload during noncombat movement.

    Under LHTR, the entire contents of the transport with the AA gun on it would need to move and unload in noncombat movement, regardless of whether or not the AA gun was loaded at the beginning of the turn.


  • Official Q&A

    @cyan:

    if you sbr italy and goes over france or germany do you have to take aa-gun flack twice. and also if you are just passing over france to get to the med. do you get attacked along the way? I think the answer depends on the rule set. that why i think i’m confused.

    Under the box rules, every time a plane passes over an AA gun it takes fire, whether in combat movement or noncombat movement.  Under LHTR, every time a plane passes over an AA gun in combat movement it takes fire, but never in noncombat movement.

    So, the answer to your first question is that the planes are shot at twice in either rule set, since it is a combat movement.

    The answer to your second question depends on when the planes are moving and which rules you’re using.  If you’re using LHTR and moving in noncombat movement, the planes won’t take fire; otherwise, they will.



  • @Krieghund:

    @captainjack:

    Another question… (if this has been covered already, I apologize)
    Can the US (Eastern) bring both transports with 2 infantry, 1 tank, and 1 AA and conduct an amphibious assault on Algeria?  I know that the AA gun can’t fire or anything, I’m just wondering if you can bring it with since this would be a combat move.
    Thanks!

    Under the box rules, if the AA gun was already loaded onto a transport at the beginning of the turn, the other units could load and then amphibious assault during combat movement, then the AA gun could unload during noncombat movement.  If the AA gun was not already on a transport, it would need to load onto the transport, move and unload during noncombat movement.

    Under LHTR, the entire contents of the transport with the AA gun on it would need to move and unload in noncombat movement, regardless of whether or not the AA gun was loaded at the beginning of the turn.

    Just so I understand you properly…
    US1: AA loads a transport
    US2: Infantry loads the same transport and moves to Algeria to conduct amphibious assault???



  • @captainjack:

    @Krieghund:

    @captainjack:

    Another question… (if this has been covered already, I apologize)
    Can the US (Eastern) bring both transports with 2 infantry, 1 tank, and 1 AA and conduct an amphibious assault on Algeria?  I know that the AA gun can’t fire or anything, I’m just wondering if you can bring it with since this would be a combat move.
    Thanks!

    Under the box rules, if the AA gun was already loaded onto a transport at the beginning of the turn, the other units could load and then amphibious assault during combat movement, then the AA gun could unload during noncombat movement.  If the AA gun was not already on a transport, it would need to load onto the transport, move and unload during noncombat movement.

    Under LHTR, the entire contents of the transport with the AA gun on it would need to move and unload in noncombat movement, regardless of whether or not the AA gun was loaded at the beginning of the turn.

    Just so I understand you properly…
    US1: AA loads a transport
    US2: Infantry loads the same transport and moves to Algeria to conduct amphibious assault???

    No. The tra. moves to Algerian Seazone to offload units ( inf and AA ) to Algeria in The noncombat phase

    P.S. Krieg if i am wrong, please correct me.


  • Official Q&A

    @Amon:

    @captainjack:

    @Krieghund:

    @captainjack:

    Another question… (if this has been covered already, I apologize)
    Can the US (Eastern) bring both transports with 2 infantry, 1 tank, and 1 AA and conduct an amphibious assault on Algeria?  I know that the AA gun can’t fire or anything, I’m just wondering if you can bring it with since this would be a combat move.
    Thanks!

    Under the box rules, if the AA gun was already loaded onto a transport at the beginning of the turn, the other units could load and then amphibious assault during combat movement, then the AA gun could unload during noncombat movement.  If the AA gun was not already on a transport, it would need to load onto the transport, move and unload during noncombat movement.

    Under LHTR, the entire contents of the transport with the AA gun on it would need to move and unload in noncombat movement, regardless of whether or not the AA gun was loaded at the beginning of the turn.

    Just so I understand you properly…
    US1: AA loads a transport
    US2: Infantry loads the same transport and moves to Algeria to conduct amphibious assault???

    Yes, under the box rules.  AA guns can’t move in combat movement, unless they’re being carried on a transport.  Since the AA gun was loaded during US1 (noncombat movement), the transport can move with it and the infantry during combat movement to make an amphibious assault on US2.  The AA gun can then unload into the same territory on US2 during noncombat movement.

    @Amon:

    No. The tra. moves to Algerian Seazone to offload units ( inf and AA ) to Algeria in The noncombat phase

    P.S. Krieg if i am wrong, please correct me.

    If the AA gun is already on the transport at the beginning of the turn, it may be moved in combat movement.  However, it still can’t be unloaded until noncombat movement.  Again, this is under the box rules, not LHTR.



  • Short Version:

    If all 4 units to be moved are still in EUS at the start of the US move, then the Algeria amphib can be done using only 1 TRN and the 2 units it can carry, the other INF and the AA would have to be moved in NCM (assuming the US won the amphib)


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