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Chinese units for minis


  • SFO Founder TripleA Admin

    Until recently (on this board) I had never heard of the Sino-German relations prior to and during the first part of WWII.

    This is very interesting to me and could prove to be fun to create a Japan vs. China scenario using Chinese and German units. I’d like to use this thread to figure out what weapons of German origin China used during or just before WWII. From that discussion we can easily figure out what A&A Minis units to use in scenarios.

    P.P.S. This is the post that inspired me:

    @led:

    hello:

    the germans did ship some equipment to china up until 1937 when japan went full scale into the “china incident” undeclared war.  so players probably could excuse any equipment mix up to and including pz 1s.  for a twist, there were some reports of german advisors actually leading kuomintang troops, so you could even slip a german leader into a scenario.  the germans actually tried to help mediate an end to the war between china and japan, but failed, and by 1938 pulled out of china militarily, although the full break didn’t occur until 1941.  german sympathy during china’s solo stand against japan was actually pretty high, with one famous example of the german consul protecting chinese nationals in the german compound from the japanese.

    until the burma theater opened up, the best kuomintang troops remained those that were german-trained and equipped, at least until american aid finally arrived much later.  so until american aid came there was a hodgepodge of german, soviet, british, french, and italian weapons in china.  but as a result of the casualties from the battles of shanghai and nanking, late 1937, all kuomintang leaders and equipment would be pretty stretched.

    however, kuomintang troops in early 1942, while british and american forces were being swept away in the pacific, and before much american equipment arrived in china, was still able in changsha (central china) to defeat a determined japanese offensive.  so there should be some decent historical scenarios there with the presently available miniatures.

    around and after 1940, there were also japanese-led puppet chinese troops, equipped with second-rate japanese equipment against the kuomintang, but who could turn against their japanese handlers, if anyone wants to set up rules for double crossing…

    another possibility is using soviet pieces in china, since until 1927 the soviets were directly advising the kuomintang, and even afterwards aided the kuomintang against japan, when it suited stalin’s foreign policy - which explains the kuomintang t-26.  but that would probably take more booster sets.

    good gaming!


  • SFO Founder TripleA Admin

    Here’s a wikipedia entry about the subject.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-German_cooperation


  • SFO Founder TripleA Admin

    List of possible Sino-German units:
    SdKfz 222
    Stuka
    Messerschmitt


  • SFO Founder TripleA Admin

    More information. The previous article mentioned Chinese assembled German aircraft but this article does not list anything.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_armies_in_the_Second_Sino-Japanese_War#Chinese_Army_armoured_vehicles
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War



  • Just so you know, I’m reading all of this stuff you’re posting. I just don’t reply because I have nothing exciting or important to say/add.

    -=Grim=-


  • SFO Founder TripleA Admin

    Add the P-51D Mustang to the list. I found a book that claims that the Nationalist Chinese army had these in 1945.



  • I’m having trouble finding what years accurately reflect units Nationalist China can historically use. Do you happen to have any years for all the remaining units?

    Sdkfz 222 (Germany) - 1939
    20mm flak (Germany) - 1939
    P-40 Tomahawk (USA) -1939
    P-51D Mustang (USA) - 1945
    T-26b (SU) - 1939
    IL-10 Sturmovik (SU)
    T-34/76 (SU)
    SU-122 (SU)
    SU-76 (SU)


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