• @ShadowHAwk:

    @ghr2:

    @ShadowHAwk:

    Well neutering is the first step and only takes a few resources,
    Germany needs to spend a lot of resources to counter you attack remember you can attack 7 zones with a fleet off gibraltar. And all units spend on defending or being a counter against this will help russia because they are not there.

    If germany has to spend 2 much vs the US in the west russia breaks out again and then germany is screwed.

    The alternative to KGF is KJF, which means you will have a germany making well over 120 italy in the 50s and only US and anzac to counter them. Even with 100 ipcs from the US they will lose that battle.

    The thing is, Germany can be in bryansk by turn 5 and have moscow in full turtle mode. If the Axis play for it, the US can’t get to gibralter until turn 4.  Germany can just stack west G and maybe berlin too if they threaten taking denmark with the us, which can be stopped by a blocker in 110.  Germany can get enough to counter any move into paris without sacrificing very much against russia.  The US alone will need like 10 transports worth of units to make it a problem.  By round 5, Germany should be making in the 70s-80s with volg & cauc, unless he feels like moscow is guaranteed in the next round.  The real deciding factor is how much stuff from india is coming over to europe.  This can affect whether egypt holds and the status in the middle east.  After India dies turn 4-5, you will need to worry about Japan knocking on the back door and potentially landing in africa to help out.

    US1 you get 2 carriers and 2 destoyers just to prevent stupid subs. and you can move the pac fleet to panama, US2 combine the fleet and buy transporst+stuff. US3-> gibraltar.
    Only way you are not allowed there is if japan does not DOW early but if they dont then india will be making 25 for a few rounds india with 30+ inf on it is not nice to take down.

    What is there to prevent me from taking south italy? or norway and from there move up to help russia on the north. I take away 17 ipc from germany just by taking norway-finland and karelia.
    Nothing is really foolproof but imo going for japan first isnt the way to do it, japan is limited in money and tactical area a lot more then germany and italy are.

    India would be making that much only if it was not going hard against italy.  The advantage of keeping america stuck on the east coast in a KGF scenario is pretty big.  Japan can take his sweet time since the US pulled out of the pac.  It really comes down to the personal preference of the Japan player whether to rush india or to buy G/I another round.

    Depends, is italy intentionally leaving it empty?  Or was italy smart enough to see the KGF and build a constant stream of inf?  This of course would not count any german fast or air support.  If the allies really want norway, Germany will be hard pressed to contest it, but Germany could lock the US down in norway if it goes there heavy by dropping a destroyer on it’s turns in 112.  Since Norway is within air range, and since Germany usually has a lot of units in theater, the allies would need to either over commit to it, or russia needs to move a decent amount of units north, which would make the fall of moscow very likely.

    Japan’s big advantage is that the US can’t get close to anything of importance to Japan without Japan being able to cockblock it or wipe it out.  This is especially true in a KGF scenario.  This does not mean that a KJF scenario would be easy as cake for Japan, just a skilled Japan player can deadzone a lot of key seazones and delay the US fleet a while.

    This all depends on how hard of a KGF or KJF do the allies want to perform.


  • I feel like the allies have to go KGF. The allies also have to declare war on the true neutrals. Playing it out I see that it is a lot closer than I thought it would be. The key for the axis is holding ukraine as Germany. Germany can’t kill Russia because US would then easily take Berlin, but Germany can keep Russia back for a while and wait for Japan to come up. The extra money and men the axis get from the allies attacking the true neutrals helps a little as well.


  • Has anyone tried playing this with no VC’s yet and just a total domination game?

  • '19 '17

    Yeah, and axis easily came out on top (no bid). In my opinion it makes for a less entertaining game playing without VCs.


  • Wait a sec. So playing without VC’s you had the axis win easily? What was the allied strategy? All out Japan, or all out Germany? Why is it less entertaining playing without VC’s?

  • '19 '17

    If I recall correctly they were both kjf, one of them was an easy win the other would have taken a while, but axis would probably win. It’s less entertaining because there is less decision making for US to split its income, and it’s similar to the other versions of axis and allies. Axis strategy to win with or without VCs is almost the same, which is going for the economic win.


  • I’d say, without a VC-win option in play, the allies can (finally) go for Europe-first, as they will not be required to hold back in fear of loosing Hawaii/Sydney (usually the 6th VC Japan needs for victory).

    WITH the VCs in play, I like to quote ghr:

    Germany and italy can easily turtle their west coasts.  It takes a lot of material for US to do anything of worth in Europe.

    And the US cannot afford to buy the material needed to do anything of Worth in Europe because that will give Hawaii/Sydney to Japan on a silver plate. Barring axis mistakes, ofc…


  • Exactly Cleric. That is why I am testing out playing against myself. The first game I tried giving the axis a pretty large bid by combining all of Italy’s fleet before the game started in SZ 97. This made it a lot harder to secure Africa and to kill his navy that had a German carrier, cruiser, dd, and 2 subs was a pain in the ass.

    I stopped playing on Russia’s turn 9. Here is the attached file of that game.

    The total Allied TUV at the start of Russia’s turn is 2497 and the Axis TUV is 2536. The incomes are allies 169, axis 184.

    I left at this point because I could tell the game was going to start really grinding. With US dropping 25-27 guys in Europe every turn, and Russia making no money thanks to Japans bombing runs it was an even race.

    Global total domination R9.tsvg


  • Quick look on your save: I wouldn’t call that an even race, ROC ;-).

    I’d say the allies have the axis by the throat in your game (thanks to no VC way to win)!
    It shouldn’t be long before the allies liberate Paris and they need to RAID German IC’s in WG and Berlin with ~8 STR, costing Germany another 20-40IPCs per turn.

    Soon, with Paris producing and Germany paying at least 20IPCs per turn on factory repairs, the economic game looks more like ~185IPCs per turn for allies versus 155 IPCs for allies.

    After a while Italy should fall as well which is game over for Germany, even if Russia cannot hold Moscow. :-).


  • My mistake was not sending my two move units to Romania the previous turn as Germany. I just played out turn 9 and US was able to stack Northern Italy. Italy is out of the game now, but on the other side of the board Japan is making 105, and he is bombing Russia with 5 bombers every turn. He has more than UK in the south and he can now start landing in Africa taking the money away from Russia and UK. I do agree that US is going to eventually take Germany, but could he do it before Moscow falls? Probably :/

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