Revised with new rules



  • Hi, i have the 2004 Version of the game, but we want to play it with the newer rules of 1942 second edition (except cruisers that are not in box, but as it seems cruisers are anyway obsolete).

    I think the new rules and prices for he units are better balanced, but several of the changes bother me, for example the fact that transports cant fight. At the start, there is one german sub in sz 8 and a US destr + 2 Transports in sz 10, what was no real problem in revised (a sub could not really attack 1 Dest + 2 Trans), but with the new rules the germans have now a very luck dependet chance to get a huge advantage from the beginning (killing those dest and 2 transports).

    The change of the rules to 42 2.ed BUT using still the revised start setup can not work really properly imho. My question is now, how should i change the start setup of revised to get a balanced game? I could simply change the starting position of this sub from sz8 to sz7, but im not sure if there are no other problems that i dont see yet. Has anyone experience with this kind of hybrid game? I could simply buy the new version of the box but i dont know if that mony is worth it. Can anyone help me?

    As i have recognized, an axis bid of about 7$ is suggested for revised edition, i am wondering now how this bid would change if i use the new rules. Tanks cost more what is i think  more a problemfor germany as for the other nations. Bombers cost less, what i think allies profit more of. Subs changed a lot, not knowing which side profits more. Carreirs etc… What do you progamers think? I like to have a well balanced game with both sides have about 50% chances of winnig.

    Another question reguarding the rules of amphibious attacks:
    Can a transport load troops and do with them an amph attack IN THE SAME TURN? As i understand it, loading troops happens only in the non combat move phase, so it should not be possible, but i read some forum posts here that seem as it would be possible. Please help me.

    Thanks for your answers.



  • I have played a few hundred games of revised, many at a high level. Here’s my perspective.

    I personally love the changes to subs and transports, but I agree that it really affects balance.
    Subs are great because they can be sneaky rather than getting blown out by air in the first round. Also makes destroyer buys necessary.
    Transports is great because they were strong enough on defense not to need many naval purchases. A stack of 4-8 transports with 1 carrier + 2 fighters defends too well (in my opinion).
    Tanks are pretty neutral to both sides actually. All countries usually purchase tanks.

    Reading your post, it appears that your guiding principles are:
    1. avoid starting 50/50 battles that greatly increase the impact of luck
    2. make the sides closely balanced that skill determines who wins.
    3. (implicit) that the game should feel similar to revised

    The biggest starting impacts are to:
    A. US east coast fleet is now profitable to attack
    B. Germany med fleet is weak and can be sunk R1 and almost certainly by R2
    C. SZ59 transport is auto sunk by a destroyer or fighter

    To apply the new rules, and maintain the revised feel I suggest:
    1. Add a destroyer to US east
    2. Add a destroyer to germany med
    3. Add a destroyer to sz59
    4. A bid of 3-8 to axis is probably still appropriate.



  • Hi, firstofall mucho thx for your answer.

    Considering your arguments:

    1. I do not directly want to avoit 50/50 battles, but i do want to avoid musthaves.
    The chance to sink 2 US transports and a destroyer is too tempting not to do it. You can only lose one sub if you fail. Therefore, to maximize axis chances to win, moving this sz8 sub to sz10 is inevitable.
    I dont like having only one way. Before, this sub could do various moves, depending on what you do in med and in north atlantic. But with transports not being able to defend, this 8-10 move is he best you can do, independent of how you want to attack the british ships. I think it is the best option to simply move the starting position of the sub from 8 to 7, here it is still possible to help attacking british ships in 2 or 13. You simply lose this (too profitalbe) US attack (that was anyway impossible in revised).

    2. Yeah, skill should decide. And with even skills luck should. But not one single attack in the first round should be able to have such a high profit as the 8-10 move (crash 22 for 6 risk).

    A) True, as mentioned.

    B) Im not sure how this should (auto)happen, as G can act before UK, and has various options in the med. Dont see such a big problem here. Maybe I’m not experienced enough to see that, could you explain it more detailed? I think with fighters, bomber and the battleship (and even the sz8 sub) it is possible to crash both, the UK battleship AND destroyer in the med, and therefore saving the german med fleet (at least for a while). Sure, you cant use those air units at the east front or in the north atlantic, BUT you have the option.

    C) Sure this transport is an autoloss for J if UK attacks it with a fighter form sz or the destroyer from sz 35. BUT if UK does so, the carrier and/or the destroyer is a (nearly) autoloss afterwards. This is not a very profitable move I think. You CAN do it to slow down Japans land offensive, but it costs UK more than J. UK has other useful options in the indian ocean. I dont see a general problem here. Maybe im wrong here, and the other options are crap, but me as UK-player would more like to save the indian fleet in the fist round, trying to meld it with either survivors from the med or with the australian.

    I wouldlike to change as few as possible to the starting setup of revised to make it work. I like to have choices, and not being forced to THE ONE by far most useful attack.


  • Official Q&A

    @arwaker:

    Can a transport load troops and do with them an amph attack IN THE SAME TURN? As i understand it, loading troops happens only in the non combat move phase, so it should not be possible, but i read some forum posts here that seem as it would be possible.

    Yes, it can.



  • 1. I do not directly want to avoit 50/50 battles, but i do want to avoid musthaves.
    The chance to sink 2 US transports and a destroyer is too tempting not to do it. You can only lose one sub if you fail. Therefore, to maximize axis chances to win, moving this sz8 sub to sz10 is inevitable.
    I dont like having only one way. Before, this sub could do various moves, depending on what you do in med and in north atlantic. But with transports not being able to defend, this 8-10 move is he best you can do, independent of how you want to attack the british ships. I think it is the best option to simply move the starting position of the sub from 8 to 7, here it is still possible to help attacking british ships in 2 or 13. You simply lose this (too profitalbe) US attack (that was anyway impossible in revised).

    In The sz8 sub only has one optimal move in standard revised. That’s to hit the med. Attacking the uk sub is only a 75% chance and is guaranteed sunk by US R1. Med takes a (66% chance) hit from the battleship that would otherwise be a german fighter loss.

    Russia hitting Wrus, Japan hitting pearl, Germany hitting egypt. These are all very profitable “must have” attacks. Yet, the game is still fairly balanced on the net.

    I think what you want to avoid in R1 are high volatility plays that have a big impact. For example, hypothetical 2 bombers attacking 4 transports defending at 1 would add a large amount of random luck.

    B) Im not sure how this should (auto)happen, as G can act before UK, and has various options in the med. Dont see such a big problem here. Maybe I’m not experienced enough to see that, could you explain it more detailed? I think with fighters, bomber and the battleship (and even the sz8 sub) it is possible to crash both, the UK battleship AND destroyer in the med, and therefore saving the german med fleet (at least for a while). Sure, you cant use those air units at the east front or in the north atlantic, BUT you have the option.

    The normal optimal play on both sides is germany sends atlantic sub and 3 fighters to sink the sz13 battleship. 1 battleship, 1 fig, and 1 transport go to sz15 and sink the destroyer. 4 land units (+1-2 if germany bids to africa), 1 bomber attack egypt. This makes sz15 guaranteed safe R1.

    C) Sure this transport is an autoloss for J if UK attacks it with a fighter form sz or the destroyer from sz 35. BUT if UK does so, the carrier and/or the destroyer is a (nearly) autoloss afterwards. This is not a very profitable move I think. You CAN do it to slow down Japans land offensive, but it costs UK more than J. UK has other useful options in the indian ocean. I dont see a general problem here. Maybe im wrong here, and the other options are crap, but me as UK-player would more like to save the indian fleet in the fist round, trying to meld it with either survivors from the med or with the australian.

    The sz59 battle, along with egypt R1 are the most important battles R1 in my view. 1 Dest vs trans only has about an 85% chance of destroying the transport. It’s so important that many top players send both the dest and carrier to sink the transport. If Japan starts with both transports, Japan’s opening is accelerated by ~1 round and that makes it much easier for Japan to secure India, Persia, and Egypt.

    Honestly (and sincerely don’t mean to insult), your comments suggest to me that you are not playing at a high competitive level. Against typical players, the skill level will have a much larger impact than a few bid. This is because people will mistakenly leave units in a position for the opponent to win 10-50 point battles. Bids to balance really shine when both players are playing optimally, the games are going 20+ rounds with 150 unit stacks. I would stick to my suggestions in the original post if you’d like to try revised with the new rules.



  • @MarineIguana:

    Honestly (and sincerely don’t mean to insult), your comments suggest to me that you are not playing at a high competitive level. Against typical players, the skill level will have a much larger impact than a few bid. This is because people will mistakenly leave units in a position for the opponent to win 10-50 point battles. Bids to balance really shine when both players are playing optimally, the games are going 20+ rounds with 150 unit stacks. I would stick to my suggestions in the original post if you’d like to try revised with the new rules.

    Of course im no experienced player, i made 6 games before. But still i wish to have as balanced starting circumstances as possible.


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