What are the most effective units?

In a 100-point game, I’m not sure if it would be worth it.  I played a 300-point game recently, and I used two.  They have the best defense I’ve ever seen (frontal defense anyway) and monstrous attack values against vehicles.  Just know that it can destroy any other tank going one-on-one.

i played a big game the other day, it came down to me and my KV-1 agasint 2 king tigers. i won with out a scrath on my tank. (allthough he rolled the worst rolls ever recoded in the histrory of rolls, 3 times, i sh*t you not, 3 times he rolled all 1’s and then another time all 3’s.) the king tiger is amazing i will give it that, put aside the fac that my buddy had horrible rolls, the KV-1 would have gotten the crap kicked out of it.

I am settling on 150 games as a good fit.  Maybe 200 to allow an extra tank for a bigger battle.

I do not believe your friend rolled all 1’s out of how many dice??

Funny you mention that.  I recently played the 1943 Battle of Kursk (with a couple 1944 tanks, sorry) and my German-using opponent consistently rolled terribly with his big tanks.  He was consistenly getting 3 or 4 successes out of 15 rolls!  My Ruskies were surviving his salvos.  I somehow managed to lose this game through terrible tactics of my own, which I will not burden you with details.

Let’s say I have a habit of leaving all of my units out of LOS except for one… and this one happened to be my KV-1!  What a waste of the “Hulking Mass” special ability.

I am looking forward to playing year restricted scenarios.  For instance, Barbarossa.  1941.  At that point, the Panther and Tiger weren’t on the battlefield.  Not even the Mark IV Panzer, according to this game.  The best tank in the world at that time was the T-34.  So, in such a scenario, the Russians would have an advantage over the Wermacht.

Of course, 1941 was a unmitigated disaster for the Soviet Union, as it lost every major engagement before winter, invaluable equipment, hundreds of miles of its territory, and hundreds of thousands of men to German encirclements by armored thrusts, men who would starve in German captivity.  The cause of these calamities was abject neglect and delusion by Stalin, who didn’t believe Germany would attack, and for other reasons to lengthy to mention in this post.

But this can’t be incorporated into a 100-point 1941 battle in Axis and Allies minis.  It seems the Russians might even have an advantage because the T-34 is the best of all pre-1942 tanks in both sets.

Any thoughts?

How about Battle of France in 1940?  Have enough Renault Tanks? or even Italian soldiers?  Or some 1935 engagement between Japan and Chinese.  The way I am going with my boosters, I will soon have enough Kuomintang rifleman to field a 15-unit, 30 point army!!

This game has some great possibilities… if you are willing to drop major coin to get enough units.

Have any of you played any of the scenarios published on the Avalon Hill site???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_armoured_fighting_vehicles_of_World_War_II#Panzerkampfwagen_IV

Apparently the Panzer Mark IV was used before 1942, but those models did not have a 75 mm gun as the 1942 Miniature accurately wields.

http://www.2worldwar2.com/german-tanks.htm

From another WWII website–

Maybe the designers can make an early model Mark IV Panzer in Set III?  For use in Barbarossa.  :-)

3. German PzKfW Mk. IV Panzer

The 17.3 ton Mk. IV Panzer tank was introduced in 1937 and used throughout WW II. Early in that conflict it was the dominant tank. Its fast firing, short barreled 75mm gun was ideal for supporting infantry and the Mark IV was used with great effectiveness in German Blitzkrieg attacks on Poland, France, the low countries, and initially in the invasion of the USSR. Top speed was 18 MPH.

There were hull and turret mounted machine guns to increase the Mark IV’s lethality against enemy infantry. Between 1940 and 1945, Germany produced about 9,000 of these tanks, making the Mk. IV far more numerous on both the Western and Eastern Fronts than the later Panther and Tiger tanks. The Mark IV provided a nice balance of protection, firepower, reliability and maneuverability early in the war.

When it was realized that the original, short barreled 75mm gun lacked the muzzle velocity to penetrate the heavy armor of the newer Soviet T34 tank, a long barreled 75mm gun became standard in the Mark IV. This high velocity weapon served for the rest of the war, keeping the Mk. IV a dangerous foe for all Allied tanks, although by then its 30mm armor could be defeated by the front line Allied tanks.

So to follow up on my recent posts…

After checking out all the units, if one were to play a 1941 scenario Germans versus Russians-- the opening battles of Barbarossa-- the Best tank the Germans could take into the battle would be the Mark III Panzer.  This is gap the designers hopefully will fill.

They should create a Panzer Mark IV model before the Ausf. G which is currently the only Mark IV in either set.  Earlier Mark IV’s were commonplace in 1941.

Before Germans saw the T-34, their tanks were used mostly for infantry support-- to blast bunkers and fortifications.

In '42, the Mark IV Ausf. G provided an answer to the T-34, but not until 1943 did the Panther arrive, which has superior fire power to the T-34.

I’d rather have more tanks to choose from than Chinese or Polish units!!!    :-)

True…the polish units are so so, but those chinese really bite! I would love to see a bit more french units.

The Tiger was used in late 1942, premiering at the battle of Leningrad.
The Panther was used in 1943 for the first time.

One more….

The SS-Panther card says “1942” but from everything I have read the Panther did appear on the battlefield until '43.

Again, the Tiger debuted in late 1942 at Leningrad, after the Battle of Stalingrad.

Last Sunday, I played a 100 points game. I was playing USA and my opponent was playing Germany. I was hoping to try my paratroopers since I had just get those and my opponent had the same kind of idea, he used his King Tiger. At start, I was pretty afraid of that huge thing, but it handed out that, against infantry, my paratroopers, the King Tiger isn’t worth the 72 points.

My point is, if I would have to field a huge tank I would go with the Tiger and even than I prefer using more less powerful tank. One big tank is fun, but many give you enough maneuvrability to beat and adapt to different situation. So even if I personnaly have a King Tiger, I don’t think I’ll ever put it into play in a 100 points game (ok, well, I’m going to do it anyways because the unit is cool  :roll: , but I wouldn’t in a tournament.

Okay… finally, I found the answer.  The Panther was introduced in late 1942 as was the Tiger, so for all of 1941 and the first half of 1942, the Germans best answer to the KV-1 and T-34 was the Mark IV.

Amazing how much research I had to do to find out such a simple answer.  :-(

This is great information!

It is great stuff, isn’t it?

I am sorry I posted so many confusing messages….

Panther and Tiger… mid-to-late 1943.Â

I was reading one anecdote about a Panzer armored column in 1941 that was delayed for 2 days because a KV-1 was blocking the roadway.  The great Wermacht was stunned at the strength of Russian armor.  Of course, they could always call the Luftwaffe for help.  We can’t.

That is a great example of why there should be a German Mark IV tank that is more powerful than Set II’s Mark III and less powerful that Set I’s 1942 Mark IV, with the 75 mm long barrel gun.

Something that can be used in a 1941 scenario that can compete some with the Russian tanks.

Compared to the Mark IV… there were relatively few Panthers (Mark V), Tiger (VI) and King Tiger (VII) variants produced… the Mark IV was the bread and butter tank of the Wermacht and SS throughout the war.

I got a laugh about reading another story about how difficult it was to damage a Tiger with a frontal shot… reminds me of some of my games.  Unfortunately, the game designers did not include a “Prone to Breakdown” negative special ability for the Tigers. It’s believed more broke down than were destroyed by enemy fire.Â

Call in the P-51s!!

I had a similar experience as Otto mentioned, I played a 150 pt. game of US vs. GE.  The GE side had a King Tiger… I was scared!  But, I was able to get my Easy 8 into a forest hex and get some good cover rolls while I kept pounding away at it with Paratroopers (dropped in from behind) and a bazooka.  Once I finally got it disrupted I was able to flank with my last remaining Sherman.  The King Tiger is a real monster vs. other tanks, but it has real trouble with the infantry.

I continue to experiment on how best to use those big point tanks….

One thing I have discovered as a bad tactic is “hiding” the tank behind cover (behind a blocking hex) and then trying to spring it on other tanks or infantry.  This almost always ends up with my tank getting charged and cornered, because I had blocked my own LOS… and the opposing tanks could get close to me without drawing fire.

I think tanks are best out in the open… on a hill…with a big field of fire to deter opposing units--  and then at the end of the game if need be parking it on the objective… (for tanks with strong rear defense against close assaults).

p.s On a side note-- I am beginning to hate the SS-Panzergrenadier.  Only when I am shooting at it, of course.