Mech Infantry - Medium Bombers - Jeep Carriers

  • '10

    Gent

    I’m planning you uses some additional game piece.  I’d like your thought on their values.  Do you think these units would be useful?

    Mech Infantry
    2/2/2 4-IPC

    I’m wondering if this would compete too much with artillery but arty still had the advantage of giving +1 to inf.

    Medium Bomber
    3/1/6 10-IPC (strategic bombing - dice role divided by 2 & round up)

    I originally made these for the other A&A when a bomber cost 15 IPC.  In these games the medium bomber cost 12 IPC.  I found medium bomber to be more useful for the axis.  Now that a bomber cost 12 IPC in 1942 I’ve decided to make the cost 10 IPC.

    Jeep Carrier
    1/1/2 10-IPC (Can carry only one plane)


  • @Black:

    Gent

    I’m planning you uses some additional game piece.  I’d like your thought on their values.  Do you think these units would be useful?

    Mech Infantry
    2/2/2 6-IPC

    I’m wondering if this would compete too much with artillery but arty still had the advantage of giving +1 to inf.

    Medium Bomber
    3/1/6 10-IPC (strategic bombing - dice role divided by 2 & round up)

    I originally made these for the other A&A when a bomber cost 15 IPC.  In these games the medium bomber cost 12 IPC.  I found medium bomber to be more useful for the axis.  Now that a bomber cost 12 IPC in 1942 I’ve decided to make the cost 10 IPC.

    Jeep Carrier
    1/1/2 10-IPC (Can carry only one plane)

    The mechanized infantry has no advantage at all compared to a tank, which has 1 more attack, 1 more defense, and is 1 IPC cheaper. Why would anyone buy that instead of a tank?

    I like the idea of the carrier and the small bomber, however think they are priced too highly.

    Nevertheless I’d propose you take a look at the Europe/Pacific 1940 games. They have mechanized infantry (Infantry with 2 movement), tactical bombers (sort of a flying artillery that can land on carriers), and other tasty additions, like harbors and airfields, the possibility to invade neutral countries, and national objectives that give additional IPCs.


  • Responses in red below.@Black:

    Gent

    I’m planning you uses some additional game piece.  I’d like your thought on their values.  Do you think these units would be useful?

    Mech Infantry
    2/2/2 6-IPC

    I’m wondering if this would compete too much with artillery but arty still had the advantage of giving +1 to inf. Yeah, I’m betting you’re meaning to put Mech infantry at 4 IPC, with 2 attack, 2 defense, 2 movement.  Rather than 6 IPC  Clearly 3 is too cheap, and 5 is too expensive, unless mech infantry has some special ability not described.

    Medium Bomber
    3/1/6 10-IPC (strategic bombing - dice role divided by 2 & round up)

    I originally made these for the other A&A when a bomber cost 15 IPC.  In these games the medium bomber cost 12 IPC.  I found medium bomber to be more useful for the axis.  Now that a bomber cost 12 IPC in 1942 I’ve decided to make the cost 10 IPC.
    For Germany, I would say 10 IPC is borderline too good for an air unit with attack 3, defense 1, and move of 6.  Medium bombers would be VERY useful to Germany.

    Jeep Carrier
    1/1/2 10-IPC (Can carry only one plane) I don’t understand what this is.  It’s a naval unit?  That attacks and defends at 1, with 2 movement, costing 10 IPC, that carries . . . one fighter?  one bomber?  Carries infantry?  Mechanized infantry?

  • '10

    Mech Infantry
    2/2/2 4-IPC

    I’m wondering if this would compete too much with artillery but arty still had the advantage of giving +1 to inf.

    Yeah, I’m betting you’re meaning to put Mech infantry at 4 IPC, with 2 attack, 2 defense, 2 movement.  Rather than 6 IPC  Clearly 3 is too cheap, and 5 is too expensive, unless mech infantry has some special ability not described.

    Opps, that was a typo. Error fixed.

    The mechanized infantry has no advantage at all compared to a tank, which has 1 more attack, 1 more defense, and is 1 IPC cheaper. Why would anyone buy that instead of a tank?

    Flin, you have to look at it as heavy infantry and not as armor.  It does have some usefulness.  The biggest one is that it can keep up with armor in movement.  The second one is that you can bring infantry to the front line quickly over long distance.  This can be very useful when making a final and/or critical push on a territory that is far way from the factory.

    I also, considered trying motorized infantry.  Essentially you buy a truck for 1-IPC.  The truck can move one infantry up to 2 spaces.  The truck has no attack or defense value.  It is destroyed when the infantry it’s carrying is destroyed.  If caught alone, it’s automatically destroyed.

    I originally made these for the other A&A when a bomber cost 15 IPC.  In these games the medium bomber cost 12 IPC.  I found medium bomber to be more useful for the axis.  Now that a bomber cost 12 IPC in 1942 I’ve decided to make the cost 10 IPC.

    For Germany, I would say 10 IPC is borderline too good for an air unit with attack 3, defense 1, and move of 6.  Medium bombers would be VERY useful to Germany.

    I tend to agree with you.  Like I said, it worked well with A&A games where the cost of the bomber is 15 IPC.  I’m trying to adapt it to Spring 1942.  I toyed with the idea of making it 11 IPC since it should cost more than a fighter.  But if you can get a heavy bomber for 1 more IPC why bother.  In general I see the medium bomber more useful for the axis than the allies.

    Nevertheless I’d propose you take a look at the Europe/Pacific 1940 games. They have mechanized infantry (Infantry with 2 movement), tactical bombers (sort of a flying artillery that can land on carriers),

    I have these too.  I call them “Attack Aircraft”.  They essentially represent ground attack aircraft, dive/Torpedo bombers and tank busters.  Here are my stats for them.

    Attack Aircraft
    3/1/4 8-IPC

    Jeep Carrier
    1/1/2 10-IPC (Can carry only one plane) I don’t understand what this is.  It’s a naval unit?  That attacks and defends at 1, with 2 movement, costing 10 IPC, that carries . . . one fighter?  one bomber?  Carries infantry?  Mechanized infantry?

    Jeep Carriers was a general term for Escort & Light Carriers (CVE/CVL) they would carry only a fighter or attack aircraft, no bombers or land units.

  • '10

    Black Fox,

    It doesn’t matter if you view it as light armor, or better infantry. All the pieces in this game come down their attack, defense, movement and their cost. Some pieces have special abilities that also need factored in, but they pretty much all a bunch of statistics and probabilities.

    Following that, I still think at 4 IPC I would still just go ahead and buy armor. Why would I buy a piece that has one less defense and one less offensive value for 4 IPC when I can get a better unit for 5? Infantry are mostly used for either fodder offensively or for defensive purposes, but why would I rush mech infantry (2 off, 2def) to the front lines when for one more IPC I could send a tank (3 off, 3 def) and get there in the same time? Now, using your scenario of the late push, I am sending a unit that is more powerful on offense, yet also decreases the odds of my opponent strafing the units (and if he does, increases the number of units he will lose because it’s more powerful on defense as well.

    That’s probably why the price of armor rose in the 1940 games.

    Another point against them in my opinion is that the 1942 map doesn’t have enough spaces. With the extra territories on the 1940 maps I think it makes perfect sense. But that’s just my opinion.

    I also believe that if you are suggesting a light carrier that it defend on a one. Seems more realistic that a smaller, lighter carrier would take less damage to sink and be less fortified.

    I do think the medium bombers could be useful, but may need a movement reduced (less room to carry fuel maybe?) or something else tweaked.

  • Customizer

    These look like some pretty good ideas.
    Mech Infantry = I like that you bump their attack up to 2.  A couple of things I would suggest adding:  1 - can no longer be supported by artillery.  2 - can ‘blitz’ by themselves, do not have to be paired with a tank.
    Medium Bombers = I think you have these set just right (3-1-6-10).  I don’t think the range should be decreased because you have already reduced their damage potential compared to heavy bombers by lowering the attack to 3 and halving the damage done to facilities in SBRs.
    Light or Escort Carriers = This is also a very good idea and I think you just about have the stats right;  1-1-2-10.  Personally, I think the attack should be lowered to 0, the defense raised to 2, and takes only ONE hit to sink.  After all, even the fleet carriers have no attack value now.  I think a Light or Escort carrier would still have a decent defensive capability but you lose the extra hit provided by the fleet carriers.  As for cost, I was thinking in the range of 10-12.  Perhaps you could go 0-2-2-11, one hit to sink, carrys 1 fighter or tac.

  • '10

    @Col.:

    I also believe that if you are suggesting a light carrier that it defend on a one. Seems more realistic that a smaller, lighter carrier would take less damage to sink and be less fortified.

    Yes, Att-1, Def-1, Mov-2.  Sinks on one hit

    I do think the medium bombers could be useful, but may need a movement reduced (less room to carry fuel maybe?) or something else tweaked.

    If you try to give it range between a heavy bomber and a fighter it would be “5” but that doesn’t work well in the game.  If you give it a range of fighter, then there wouldn’t really be an incentive to use them. Anyway, range is very subjective to many factors.  Generally most bombers were rated how far they could fly by with the heaviest load.  In general, medium bomber had an average range of 1,500~2,000lb with a 4,000lb bomb load.  Heavy bombers had about the same range but could carry about double the payload.

  • '10

    @knp7765:

    These look like some pretty good ideas.
    Mech Infantry = I like that you bump their attack up to 2.  A couple of things I would suggest adding:  1 - can no longer be supported by artillery.  2 - can ‘blitz’ by themselves, do not have to be paired with a tank.

    Yes, this is exactly what I had in mind.  Kind of thought this was a given.  Thanks for bringing it up.

    Medium Bombers = I think you have these set just right (3-1-6-10).  I don’t think the range should be decreased because you have already reduced their damage potential compared to heavy bombers by lowering the attack to 3 and halving the damage done to facilities in SBRs.

    Thanks

    Light or Escort Carriers = This is also a very good idea and I think you just about have the stats right;  1-1-2-10.  Personally, I think the attack should be lowered to 0, the defense raised to 2, and takes only ONE hit to sink.  After all, even the fleet carriers have no attack value now.  I think a Light or Escort carrier would still have a decent defensive capability but you lose the extra hit provided by the fleet carriers.  As for cost, I was thinking in the range of 10-12.  Perhaps you could go 0-2-2-11, one hit to sink, carrys 1 fighter or tac.

    In Spring 1942, carriers have Att-1, Def-2, Mov-2 Cost-14.  Late war carriers had so many guns that they could easily out gun destroyers and I feel would qualify for an attack value of 2 but we’ll leave that alone. So I feel pretty happy with the stats I gave.

    The Jeep Carrier is a general term for both the CVL and CVE but they were slightly different.  CVLs were designed to travel with warships.  They were fast and had heavier armament.  CVE were generally built off on modified freighter hull.  They were slower but still carried decent armament.  They were primarily to escort, convoys, anti-sub warfare, support amphibious landings and supply aircraft for fleet carriers and land bases.  If I were to be more technical about it I would rate the CVL at 1-1-2-10/CVE 0-1-2-8 or 9 but I think the 1-1-2-10 offers a little better balance for game play.

  • '14

    When adding units like mech inf and medium bombers you run into either making other units obsolete or making the new units worthless. This is keeping with a D6 combat system. You go to a D12 and you make room for expansion.

    Inf-          2/4/1. Cost 3
    moble inf- 2/4/2  Cost 4 can blitz with armor
    mech inf-  3/4/2. Cost 5 can blitz by itself

    armor-      6/6/2. Cost 6

    artillery-    3/4/1  Cost 4 can be towed with moble and blitz with mech.

    D12 just opens the door to so many mote options for newer units while keeping the original units worth buying!

  • '10

    @Tigerman77:

    When adding units like mech inf and medium bombers you run into either making other units obsolete or making the new units worthless. This is keeping with a D6 combat system. You go to a D12 and you make room for expansion.

    Inf-          2/4/1. Cost 3
    moble inf- 2/4/2  Cost 4 can blitz with armor
    mech inf-  3/4/2. Cost 5 can blitz by itself

    armor-      6/6/2. Cost 6

    artillery-    3/4/1  Cost 4 can be towed with moble and blitz with mech.

    D12 just opens the door to so many mote options for newer units while keeping the original units worth buying!

    After playing a few games I don’t believe new units make others obsolete or worthless but it may hold true a little bit when it comes to artillery & mech-infantry.  In most cases the majority prefer the mech-inf. over the artillery.  Still I found both have their usefulness.

    However, I do agree that expanding to a larger dice 1d8, 1d10 or 1d12 can be useful

  • '10

    Making units obsolete/worthless is what I was getting at in my post. I don’t think that’s exactly the case, but it can sort of make it a speciality item, and I’m not sure if the incomes are high enough for that. Not sure if I’m wording this write either.

    Reading what you wrote about the late war carriers, maybe you could make the rules time related. Meaning they are like automatic technologies that appear after a certain round and just replace the older ones. All infantry gets those bonuses with movement and everything, and still costs 3 IPC, after the 5th round maybe. Fourth, even.

    I don’t know. I like the idea (especially the mech inf), but it’s hard to implment.

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