Baron's simplified TcB (less combined arms), Fg & 3-planes Carrier, full roster

  • '17 '16

    This opening post is a revised version of this thread main post:
    Baron M’s G40HR Roster: 3-planes carrier, 6 IPCs Fighter A2D2 & Sub A3D1C7
    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=35222.msg1370798#msg1370798

    Here is the most preeminent 9 features which revised actual units combat value and interaction in play:

    • First of all, all casualties are now chosen by the owner (except for Fgs’ and Subs’ casualties) and there is no specific order for any units, including Transports.

    • Anti-Aircraft Artillery defending almost as OOB in the first round against only up to 2 aircrafts, but also working as other ground units in following rounds: firing every round @1 but still only against up to 2 aircraft units,

    • Fighter A2 D2-3 M4 at 6 IPCs (hit plane first) (Sub is the only other unit with specific target casualty) and
      a weaker Tactical Bomber A3 D2 M4 C8, applying Combined Arms only to support Tank +1 offense or defense.
      This makes two different planes with distinctive functions.
      This fighter unit (remotely related to his 1914 counter-part) is the long awaited answer to this question: “why planes can’t hit planes in A&A?”

    • This also includes a still acceptable historical Strategic Bombing Raid escort and intercept combat values in which:
      Fighter gets A2 D2-3,
      Tactical Bombers A1 first strike
      Strategic Bombers A1 first strike against up to 2 Fgs, whichever the lesser (works like an AA gun).

    • 3-planes Aircraft Carrier at 14 IPCs with 2 hits and defending @3 (carry up to 3 whether Fighters or Tactical Bombers).
      The defense is highered up to D3 to keep with a full 3 Fgs load a similar advantage (to OOB) over attacking Carrier with 3 TcBs.
      In addition, G40.2 Carrier at 16 IPCs also receive an additional defensive AA capacity against up to 3 planes, same as AAA unit.

    • A costlier Submarine A3 D1 at 7 IPCs with same offensive and lesser defensive combat value compared to OOB but an increase elusiveness against Destroyers,

    • Destroyer A2 D2 blocking submarines’ Surprise Strike as OOB, but 1:1 for Submerge (1 round only) and Stealth Move
      In addition, any hit by planes against submarines is treated normally: planes need no more special presence of Destroyer to hit submarine.

    • Transport able to defend: A0 1D1 maximum per TPs group, 1 hit, at 8 IPCs and get a combat value which simplify interactions with other units.

    • A reduced cost structure for warships mostly based on Advanced Shipyard Tech,
      keeping the OOB scale cost ratio between warships: 1 DD+ 1 CA= 1 BB.
      Increasing Naval actions while keeping a high 8 IPCs for this transport unit, thus making it a more expensive sea-fodder (if someone choose to use them as such).

    Also, it contains 5 additional units from HBG (to get a more complete historical roster of weapons) such as:
    Anti-Tank Gun A1 D3 M1 C4
    Mechanized Artillery A2-3 D2-3 M2 &
    Heavy Artillery A3 D2 M1 which become both substantial and competitive units at 5 IPCs,
    Escort Carrier D2, carrying 1 plane (Fg or TcB) (an historical 1/3 ratio of Fleet Carrier capacity) with Anti-Sub Vessel capacity same as Destroyer
    Medium Bomber (2-engines, working as OOB Strategic Bomber at a lower 10 IPCs but 5 move) &
    Heavy Bomber (4-engines at 12 IPCs with 6 move, but doing 2 IPCs damage, even when hit by IC’s AA gun)
    (HBG sculpts can complete OOB sculpts mix of 2-engines and 4 engines bombers).

    So, now you get my FIVE-STARS complete A&A units historical roster incremented scale by 1 IPC from 3 IPCs to 10 IPCs, then 12, 14, 16 IPCs, and a smoother game mechanics.
    It is as balance (within itself, IMO) and as close as possible from historical feel dynamics without too much sacrifice toward complexity.

    The more interesting feature is the Fighter unit at same cost with Tank.
    It is more able to figure the usefulness of Tank, Tactical Bomber and Fighter (3 important driving machine-weapons of WWII) on the battleground, not just Tank, and make them almost equivalent loss, from IPCs POV.

    Tank (A3-4 D3-4 M2 C6) gets a better offensive and defensive punch and can be shielded by AAA, Infantry, Mechanized Infantry, Artillery, Mechanized Artillery and Heavy Artillery units as fodder. Also, the Tactical Bomber is giving it a +1 Air Support bonus.
    This make now Tank the most important unit in ground combat.

    Fighter (A2 D2-3 M4 C6) is more versatile on Sea / Air / Land but have a lower offensive and defensive punch than Tank, and is unable to conquer land territory by itself while being directly vulnerable to AAA unit and other Fighter.

    Tactical Bomber A3 D2 M4 C8, applying Combined Arms to support 1:1 Tank +1 offense or defense. But very vulnerable against Fighter.


    This is a summary of their special abilities (some are house rules I already used and tested):

    ANTI-AIRCRAFT ARTILLERY A0 D1 CM1 Cost 3, 1 hit,
    Each round, up to 2 preemptive defense @1 against up to 2 planes, whichever the lesser, works similar to OOB AAA but can defend each combat round.
    Stop any blitz, and defend itself @1 against enemy’s ground units, if no attacking air unit is present.
    Can move during combat move phase, can be taken as casualty (owner’s choice).

    INFANTRY A1-2 D2 M1 Cost 3
    Get +1A if paired 1:1 with Artillery or Mechanized Artillery or Heavy Artillery

    MECHANIZED INFANTRY A1-2 D2 M2 Cost 4,
    Get +1 if paired 1:1 with Artillery or Mechanized Artillery or Heavy Artillery
    Can Blitz when paired 1:1 with a Tank

    ARTILLERY A2 D2 M1 Cost 4
    Gives +1A to 1 Infantry or 1 Mechanized Infantry

    (ANTI-TANK GUN) A1 D3 M1 Cost 4 added for completeness
    Gives +1D to 1 Infantry or Mechanized Infantry
    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=35315.msg1380075#msg1380075

    (HEAVY ARTILLERY) A3 D2 M1 Cost 5 added for completeness
    Gives +1A to 1 Infantry or 1 Mechanized Infantry

    (MECHANIZED ARTILLERY) (Self-Propelled Artillery / Assault Gun) A2-3 D2-3 M2 Cost 5 added for completeness
    Gives +1A to 1 Infantry or 1 Mechanized Infantry when paired 1:1 with.
    Tank Hunter as a Tank Support capacity: gets +1A/D when paired 1:1 with a Tank.
    Both bonus can work at the same time.

    TANK A3-4 D3-4 M2 Cost 6
    Can Blitz
    Allow Mechanized Infantry or Mechanized Artillery to Blitz on 1 on 1 basis or a 1:1:1 basis.
    Gives +1A/D to Mechanized Artillery when paired 1:1 with
    Gets +1A/D from Tactical Bomber when paired 1:1 with

    Both bonus can apply.


    FIGHTER A2 D2-3 M4, same in SBR Cost 6
    Air combat unit, Fighter as an Air Superiority aircraft: All hits are allocated to aircraft units first, if any available, then AAA, and finally other kind of units.
    Fighter as part of an extended Air Defense System:
    1 Fighter units receive +1 Defense if protecting a territory with an operational Air Base, (for 1942.2, 2 Fgs can scramble from a Victory City instead.)
    SBR/TcBR Attack @2, Defend @2, or even Defend @3 for 1 Fg if an operational Air Base is present.
    Can scramble in adjacent SZ up to 4 Fgs: 3 defend @2 and 1 defend @3, getting the +1 Defense bonus from an operational Air Base.
    Can hit submarines without Anti-Sub Vessel.

    SUBMARINES A3 D1 M2 Cost 7
    Surprise Strike, (blocked when at least 1 Destroyer or Anti-Sub Vessel is present),
    Submerge, instead of rolling for a Surprise Strike attack (blocked by ASV on a 1:1 basis for the first combat round only),
    Stealth Movement: No Hostile Sea-Zone (except ASV can block Submarine Stealth movement on 1:1 basis),
    Cannot hit airplanes,
    Can be hit by planes, doesn’t require an Anti-Sub Vessel.
    Re: Reality wrecking destroyer rules need a revamp…
    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34169.msg1372793#msg1372793

    DESTROYER A2 D2 M2 Cost 7
    Anti-Sub Vessel: each ASV blocks Surprise Strike capacity of all enemy’s Submarine units present.
    Cancel Sub’s Submerge on 1 DD:1 Sub basis for the first combat round only
    (When it occurs, defending Subs rolls a Defense @1 in the first round, and any surviving Subs can submerge at the beginning of the second combat round.)
    Cancel Sub’s Stealth Movement on 1 DD: 1 Sub basis for Combat or Non Combat Move, all additional Sub units can perform a Stealth Movement as usual.

    TACTICAL BOMBER A3 D2 M4 Cost 8
    All hits are allocated to Anti-Aircraft Artillery units first, if any available, then other kind of units.
    Combined Arms bonus with Tank, Tactical Bomber as a “Dive Bomber” and “Tank Buster”:
    Gives +1 Attack or Defense to any 1 Tank when paired 1:1.
    SBR/TcBR Attack @1 first strike,
    Allowed to do escort mission of Strategic Bomber without doing Tactical Bombing Raid on Air Base or Naval Base,
    Cannot do interception mission on defense,
    TcBR damage: 1D6.
    Can hit submarines without Anti-Sub Vessel.

    TRANSPORT A0 1Def@1 Maximum per TPs group M2 Cost 8, 1 hit
    A transports group get a single defense roll @1/round along with defending warships
    (for this single defense roll, friendly transports are all considered being part of the same defending player’s group),
    and each transport unit can be taken individually as casualty. As long as their is still 1 TP remaining, it can roll this single defense @1.
    OPTIONAL: CONVOY protection
    To get less impact on the opening set-up battles, a lone transport at the start of a combat gets no defense roll but can be used as a fodder, since it still has 1 hit value. If a transport becomes single during a battle, it still get a defense roll @1, for the duration of the combat.

    Simplifying units interactions of Transports, Submarines, Destroyers & planes
    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34290.msg1320853#msg1320853
    Must be escorted by a warship when making an amphibious assault in an enemy’s Submarines infested SZ or Transports infested SZ, so to be able to ignore them/ or fight them with combat units.
    Otherwise, Submarines and Transports may be ignored during Transport Combat Move or Non Combat Move.
    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34290.msg1373212#msg1373212

    (1942.2 or G40.2 ESCORT CARRIER) A0 D2 M2 Cost 8, 1 hit, added for completeness
    Carry 1 Fighter or 1 Tactical Bomber,
    Anti-Sub Vessel, working the same as a Destroyer,
    Combined Anti-Air Defense when paired with 1 Battleship and 1 Cruiser: get up to 3 preemptive shots @1 against up to three planes.
    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34985.msg1359001#msg1359001

    CRUISER A3 D3 M2 Cost 9
    Shore bombardment @3
    Combined Anti-Air Defense when paired with 1 Battleship and 1 Carrier: get up to 3 preemptive shots @1 against up to three planes.
    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34985.msg1359001#msg1359001

    STRATEGIC BOMBER (2-engines Medium Bomber) A4 D1 M5 Cost 10
    Strategical Bombing Raid (SBR*)/ TBR : Attack @1 first strike against up to 1 fighter, whichever the lesser, similar to AAA.
    SBR/TBR damage: 1D6+2 on Industrial Complex, Air Base or Naval Base
    If destroyed by IC’s, AB’s or NB’s AA gun, a minimum SBR damage apply: 2 IPCs.
    No damage if destroyed by Fighter interceptor.
    Can hit submarines without Anti-Sub Vessel.

    (High Altitude Strategic BOMBER) (4-engines Heavy Bomber) A4 D1 M6 Cost 12 added for completeness
    Strategical Bombing Raid (SBR*)/ TBR : Attack @1 first strike against up to 2 fighters, whichever the lesser, similar to AAA.
    SBR/TBR damage: 1D6+3 on Industrial Complex, Air Base or Naval Base
    If destroyed by IC’s, AB’s or NB’s AA gun, a minimum SBR damage apply: 3 IPCs.
    No damage if destroyed by Fighter interceptor.
    Can hit submarines without Anti-Sub Vessel.
    Re: Rethinking Air Units
    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34502.msg1331015#msg1331015

    1942.2 FLEET CARRIER A0 D3 M2 Cost 14, 2 hits
    Carry 3 planes (Fgs or TcBs)
    Damaged Carrier can still carry 1 plane.
    Combined Anti-Air Defense when paired with 1 Battleship and 1 Cruiser: get up to 3 preemptive shots @1 against up to three planes.

    G40.2 FLEET CARRIER A0 D3 M2 Cost 16, 2 hits
    Carry 3 planes (Fgs or TcBs)
    Damaged Carrier can still carry 1 plane.
    Fleet Carrier is an Anti-Air platform: AAA get up to 3 preemptive shots @1 against up to three planes.
    AND can also gets
    Combined Anti-Air Defense when paired with 1 Battleship and 1 Cruiser: get up to 3 preemptive shots @1 against up to three planes, whichever the lesser.
    Both gives up to 6 defensive AA preemptive shots @1 against up to 6 planes, whichever the lesser.

    BATTLESHIP A4 D4 M2 Cost 16, 2 hits
    Shore bombardment @4
    Combined Anti-Air Defense when paired with 1 Cruiser and 1 Carrier: get up to 3 preemptive shots @1 against up to three planes.
    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34985.msg1359001#msg1359001

    SBR/TBR escort and intercept combat values:
    Fighter: Attack 2 Defense 2 or 3 (+1 to 1 Fg from an operational Air Base)
    Tactical Bomber: Attack 1 first strike Defense 0
    Strategic Bomber: Attack 1 first strike , as AA gun against up to 2 Fgs, Defense 0


    For my part, I would allow 3 types of defensive maneuvers for aircraft.
    DEFENSIVE MANEUVERS allowed for 2 or 3 types of aircraft:

    • Aerial Retreat for attacking planes (all aircrafts can retreat while letting ground units pursuing battle),

    • Limited Aerial Withdrawal of 1 space in a friendly territory is allowed any round after the first combat round for defending planes up to 2 StBs or 2 TcBs or 2 Fgs.

    • Limited landing in a just conquered territory (which includes at least 1 ground unit): 2 planes (either Fighter or Tactical Bomber), as long as each units can provide 1 extra movement point for this special landing.


    I hope you will comment this whole A&A game changer (and feel free to talk about any features above, if you ever tried in your own F2F A&A game).

  • '17 '16 '15

    Looks pretty good Baron. Well thought out.

    If you were to only add one unit to the Global game would you use the anti-tank or heavy artillery?

    Or would you need both?

  • '17 '16

    None is necessary IMO.

    ATG or Heavy Artillery become a must if you introduced Mechanized Artillery in G40.

    For my part, I would try ATG first to see if it can truly help Russia.

    I also think, that such TacB at 8 IPCs can be a good buy to combine with Tanks for offensive maneuver or last defense.

    And a 6 IPCs Fg can be very affordable. A real bargain.
    It is slightly superior to the OOB Fg @4 at 10 IPCs on defense.
    Maybe it should be put at 7 IPCs.
    Just 1 IPC below TcB.
    This will need a play test to see how attrition from direct air combat or AAA fire have an impact on aircraft numbers.


    I truly believe I got the simplest way inside the many parameters I wanted to integrate along 2 years of discussion in this forum.
    The real novelty is the Fg-TcB-Tank combat values and capacities.
    TcBs are now much more played according to their role in WWII air combat.
    Not better than Fg on defense.
    Not truly better than Fg on offense (based on same IPCs basis vs Calc, but needed on Carrier to bring some offensive punch for the limited space) still giving air support to Tank, which increase TcB tactical value.
    In addition, this Combined Arms bonus should provides an incentive (as said elsewhere) to commit some TcBs even at the risk of loosing some at enemy’s Fgs in mixed battle with ground+air in a given territory.

  • '17 '16

    Besides a few cost change for warships, here is the core of significant points changed to get a functional air battle within regular combat phase (no addition, simply coming from opening post):

    ANTI-AIRCRAFT ARTILLERY A0 D0 NCM1 Cost 3, 1 hit,
    Up to 3 preemptive defense @1 against up to 3 planes,(as OOB AAA) and
    fire regular defense @1 against up to 1 plane on the following combat rounds.
    Stop any blitz, but cannot defend itself against enemy’s ground units.

    TANK A3-4 D3-4 M2 Cost 6
    Can Blitz
    Allow Mechanized Infantry or Mechanized Artillery to Blitz on 1 on 1 basis or a 1:1:1 basis.
    Gives +1A/D to Mechanized Artillery when paired 1:1 with
    Gets +1A/D from Tactical Bomber when paired 1:1 with

    Both bonus can apply.


    FIGHTER A2 D2-3 M4, same in SBR Cost 6
    Air combat unit, Fighter as an Air Superiority aircraft: All hits are allocated to aircraft units first, if any available.
    Fighter as part of an extended Air Defense System:
    Up to 3 Fighters units receive +1 Defense if protecting a territory with an operational Air Base, (or 1 Fg for a Victory City if playing 1942.2)
    SBR/TcBR Attack @2, Defend @2, or even Defend @3 for up to 3 Fgs if an operational Air Base is present.
    Can hit submarines without Anti-Sub Vessel.

    TACTICAL BOMBER A3 D2 M4 Cost 8
    Combined Arms bonus with Tank, Tactical Bomber as a “Dive Bomber” and “Tank Buster”:
    Gives +1 Attack or Defense to any 1 Tank when paired 1:1.
    SBR/TcBR Attack @2,
    Allowed to do escort mission of Strategic Bomber without doing Tactical Bombing Raid on Air Base or Naval Base,
    Cannot do interception mission on defense,
    TcBR damage: 1D6.
    Can hit submarines without Anti-Sub Vessel.

    (1942.2 or G40.2 ESCORT CARRIER) A0 D2 M2 Cost 8, 1 hit, added for completeness
    Carry 1 Fighter or 1 Tactical Bomber,
    Anti-Sub Vessel, working the same as a Destroyer,
    Combined Anti-Air Defense when paired with 1 Battleship and 1 Cruiser: get up to 3 preemptive shots @1 against up to three planes.
    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34985.msg1359001#msg1359001

    STRATEGIC BOMBER (2-engines Medium Bomber) A4 D1 M6 Cost 10
    Strategical Bombing Raid (SBR*)/ TBR : Attack @1
    SBR/TBR damage: 1D6+2 on Industrial Complex, Air Base or Naval Base
    Can hit submarines without Anti-Sub Vessel.

    1942.2 FLEET CARRIER A0 D3 M2 Cost 14, 2 hits
    Carry 3 planes (Fgs or TcBs)
    Damaged Carrier can still carry 1 plane.
    Combined Anti-Air Defense when paired with 1 Battleship and 1 Cruiser: get up to 3 preemptive shots @1 against up to three planes.

    SBR/TBR escort and intercept combat values:
    Fighter: Attack 2 Defense 2 or 3
    Tactical Bomber: Attack 2 Defense 0
    Strategic Bomber: Attack 1 Defense 0

  • '17 '16

    Unfortunately, the above rules with such Tactical bomber combat values can only apply to 1942.2 if anyone wish to keep up near set-up combat capacity and value.
    The OOB 1942.2 Carrier shifting from A1 D2 1 hit toward A0 D3 2 hits, is just slightly rising is combat abilities.

    However, it is very different in G40, because OOB Carrier already gets 2 hits.
    So the change is minimal but allowing TcB A3 D2 makes for a full Carrier unit much more dangerous on offense with 3 TcBs A3 D2 than defense with 3 Fgs A2 D2. That has never been the case that a full Carrier is inferior on defense with 3 Fgs (A6 D6 +A0 D3, 2 hits) against her attacking configuration with 3 TcBs (A9 D6+ A0 D3, 2 hits).

    I do not like to come back to a more complex Tactical Bomber receiving a bonus for Combined Arms air support from Fighter!
    But I don’t see any other alternative?!!

    Should it be a TcB A3 D3 unit?
    But, if it is the case, the best defensive configuration on a Carrier will be with 3 TcBs instead of 3 Fgs?!

    A Tactical Bomber A3 D2-3 unit?
    Rising to D3 when paired 1:1 with 1 Fg?
    or when at least 1 single Fighter is present?
    And giving a +1D Air Supremacy bonus?

    ??? ???

    G40.2 FLEET CARRIER A0 D3 M2 Cost 16, 2 hits
    Carry 3 planes (Fgs or TcBs)
    Damaged Carrier can still carry 1 plane.
    Combined Anti-Air Defense when paired with 1 Battleship and 1 Cruiser: get up to 3 preemptive shots @1 against up to three planes.

    ??? ???

    Here is my proposition, TcB stay the same A3 D2 C8 but Fleet Carrier gets also an Anti-Air Capacity as an AAA.
    Don’t forget it is done so to keep a similar offensive/defensive combat ratio between the best configurations.

    G40.2 FLEET CARRIER A0 D3 M2 Cost 16, 2 hits
    Carry 3 planes (Fgs or TcBs)
    Damaged Carrier can still carry 1 plane.
    Fleet Carrier is an Anti-Air platform: AAA get up to 3 preemptive shots @1 against up to three planes.
    AND can also gets
    Combined Anti-Air Defense when paired with 1 Battleship and 1 Cruiser: get up to 3 preemptive shots @1 against up to three planes, which ever the lesser.

    So a full Carrier on defense with Combined Arms get up to 6 preemptive shots @1 against up to six planes, whichever the lesser.

    What do you think about it?

    Here is the link to the AACalc:
    A 2 hits Carrier A0 D3 and 3 TcBs A3 D2 against a 2 hits Carrier  A0 D3 and 3 Fgs A2 D2.
    Overall %*: A. survives: 32.6% D. survives: 65.4% No one survives: 2%
    http://calc.axisandallies.org/?mustland=0&abortratio=0&saveunits=0&strafeunits=0&AA=on&aInf=&aArt=&aArm=&aFig=6&aBom=&aTra=4&aSub=&aDes=&aCru=&aCar=&aBat=&adBat=&dInf=&dArt=&dArm=&dFig=&dBom=&dTra=2&dSub=&dDes=6&dCru=2&dCar=&dBat=&ddBat=&ool_att=Bat-Inf-Art-AArt-Arm-Sub-SSub-Tra-Des-Fig-JFig-Cru-Bom-HBom-Car-dBat&ool_def=Bat-Inf-Art-AArt-Arm-Bom-HBom-Tra-Sub-SSub-Des-Car-Cru-Fig-JFig-dBat&battle=Run&rounds=&reps=10000&luck=pure&ruleset=AA1942&territory=&round=1&pbem=

    If the hits must be allocated first to Tactical Bombers (due to Fgs direct fire):
    Overall %*: A. survives: 9.4% D. survives: 90.6% No one survives: 0%

    Compared to OOB 2 Carrier A0 D2, 2 hits 2 TcBs A4 and 2 Fgs A3 against 2 Carrier A0 D2, 2 hits and 4 Fgs D4
    Overall %*: A. survives: 18.7% D. survives: 76.1% No one survives: 5.2%
    http://calc.axisandallies.org/?mustland=0&abortratio=0&saveunits=0&strafeunits=0&aInf=&aArt=&aArm=&aFig=2&aBom=2&aTra=4&aSub=&aDes=&aCru=&aCar=&aBat=&adBat=&dInf=&dArt=&dArm=&dFig=4&dBom=&dTra=2&dSub=&dDes=&dCru=&dCar=2&dBat=&ddBat=&ool_att=Bat-Inf-Art-AArt-Arm-Sub-SSub-Tra-Des-Fig-JFig-Cru-Bom-HBom-Car-dBat&ool_def=Bat-Inf-Art-AArt-Arm-Bom-HBom-Tra-Sub-SSub-Des-Car-Cru-Fig-JFig-dBat&battle=Run&rounds=&reps=10000&luck=pure&ruleset=AA1942&territory=&round=1&pbem=

  • '17 '16

    So what do you think of these planes?

    Do you think TacB on TBC/SBR should attack @1 instead of @2?
    Do you think Fighter should cost 7 IPCs instead of 6 IPCs?

    How do you find these 2 Carriers the 1942.2 version and the G40.2 Version?

    And inside all the units roster?

    An interesting facts with Fg and TcB at a low 6 or 8 IPCs and defending @2, the high defense @3 and the cost of Carrier, now make them amongst the last casualty while planes will be taken as fodder.
    All the smaller units would sacrifice to save their mother warship.
    It is no more upside down as OOB when a bunch of Fg @4 are surviving all by themselves in a Naval battle while Carrier is already sunk.

    FIGHTER A2 D2-3 M4, same in SBR Cost 6
    Air combat unit, Fighter as an Air Superiority aircraft: All hits are allocated to aircraft units first, if any available.
    Fighter as part of an extended Air Defense System:
    Up to 3 Fighters units receive +1 Defense if protecting a territory with an operational Air Base, (or 1 Fg for a Victory City if playing 1942.2)
    SBR/TcBR Attack @2, Defend @2, or even Defend @3 for up to 3 Fgs if an operational Air Base is present.
    Can hit submarines without Anti-Sub Vessel.

    TACTICAL BOMBER A3 D2 M4 Cost 8
    Combined Arms bonus with Tank, Tactical Bomber as a “Dive Bomber” and “Tank Buster”:
    Gives +1 Attack or Defense to any 1 Tank when paired 1:1.
    SBR/TcBR Attack @2,
    Allowed to do escort mission of Strategic Bomber without doing Tactical Bombing Raid on Air Base or Naval Base,
    Cannot do interception mission on defense,
    TcBR damage: 1D6.
    Can hit submarines without Anti-Sub Vessel.

    (1942.2 or G40.2 ESCORT CARRIER) A0 D2 M2 Cost 8, 1 hit, added for completeness
    Carry 1 Fighter or 1 Tactical Bomber,
    Anti-Sub Vessel, working the same as a Destroyer,
    Combined Anti-Air Defense when paired with 1 Battleship and 1 Cruiser: get up to 3 preemptive shots @1 against up to three planes.
    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34985.msg1359001#msg1359001

    1942.2 FLEET CARRIER A0 D3 M2 Cost 14, 2 hits
    Carry 3 planes (Fgs or TcBs)
    Damaged Carrier can still carry 1 plane.
    Combined Anti-Air Defense when paired with 1 Battleship and 1 Cruiser: get up to 3 preemptive shots @1 against up to three planes.

    G40.2 FLEET CARRIER A0 D3 M2 Cost 16, 2 hits
    Carry 3 planes (Fgs or TcBs)
    Damaged Carrier can still carry 1 plane.
    Fleet Carrier is an Anti-Air platform: AAA get up to 3 preemptive shots @1 against up to three planes.
    AND can also gets
    Combined Anti-Air Defense when paired with 1 Battleship and 1 Cruiser: get up to 3 preemptive shots @1 against up to three planes, which ever the lesser.
    Full Carrier on defense with Combined Arms get up to 6 preemptive shots @1 against up to six planes, whichever the lesser.

  • '17 '16

    There is some modifications compared to the opening post of this actual thread (mostly about AAA, TcB, Cruiser and BB anti-air capacity):

    Here is the most preeminent 9 features which revised actual units combat value and interaction in play:

    • First, except for 4 specific units: AAA’s, TcB’s, Fgs’ and Subs’ casualties, all casualties are now chosen by the owner and there is no specific order for any units, including Transports.

    • Anti-Aircraft Artillery now defends almost as OOB but in every round against up to 2 aircrafts,

    • Fighter A2 D2-3 M4 at 6 IPCs (hit plane first) and
      a weaker Tactical Bomber A3 D2 M4 C8, aiming at AAAs first and applying Combined Arms only to support Tank +1 offense or defense.
      This makes two different planes with distinctive functions.
      This fighter unit (remotely related to his 1914 counter-part) is the long awaited answer to this question: “why planes can’t hit planes in A&A?”

    • This also includes a still acceptable historical Strategic Bombing Raid escort and intercept combat values in which:
      Fighter gets A2 D2-3,
      Tactical Bombers A1 first strike
      Strategic Bombers A1 first strike against up to 2 Fgs, whichever the lesser (works like the new AAA, for a single combat round).

    • 3-planes Aircraft Carrier at 14 IPCs with 2 hits and defending @3 (carrying up to 3 planes whether Fighters or Tactical Bombers).
      The defense is highered up to D3 to keep with a full 3 Fgs load a similar advantage (to OOB) over attacking Carrier with 3 TcBs.
      In addition, G40.2 Carrier at 16 IPCs also receive an additional single opening first strike defensive AA capacity against up to 2 planes, similar to AAA unit.

    • A costlier Submarine A3 D1 at 7 IPCs with same offensive and lesser defensive combat value compared to OOB but an increase elusiveness against Destroyers,

    • Destroyer A2 D2 blocking submarines’ Surprise Strike as OOB, but 1:1 for Submerge (1 round only) and Stealth Move
      In addition, any hit by planes against submarines is treated normally: planes need no more special presence of Destroyer to hit submarine.

    • Transport able to defend: A0 1D1 maximum per TPs group, 1 hit, at 8 IPCs and get a combat value which simplify interactions with other units.

    • A reduced cost structure for warships mostly based on Advanced Shipyard Tech,
      keeping the OOB scale cost ratio between warships: 1 DD+ 1 CA= 1 BB.
      Increasing Naval actions while keeping a high 8 IPCs for this transport unit, thus making it a more expensive sea-fodder (if someone choose to use them as such).

    Also, it contains 2 additional units from HBG (to get a more complete historical roster of weapons) such as:
    Mechanized Artillery A2-3 D2-3 M2 which becomes a substantial and competitive units at 5 IPCs,
    Escort Carrier D2, carrying 1 plane (Fg or TcB) (an historical 1/3 ratio of Fleet Carrier capacity) with Anti-Sub Vessel capacity same as Destroyer.

    So, now you get my simpler complete A&A units historical roster incremented scale by 1 IPC from 3 IPCs to 10 IPCs, then 14, 16, 17 IPCs, and a smoother game mechanics.
    It is as balance (within itself, IMO) and as close as possible from historical feel dynamics without too much sacrifice toward complexity.

    The more interesting feature is the Fighter unit at same cost with Tank.
    It is more able to figure the usefulness of Tank, Tactical Bomber and Fighter (3 important driving machine-weapons of WWII) on the battleground, not just Tank, and make them almost equivalent loss, from IPCs POV.

    Tank (A3-4 D3-4 M2 C6) gets a better offensive and defensive punch and can be shielded by AAA, Infantry, Mechanized Infantry, Artillery, Mechanized Artillery and Heavy Artillery units as fodder. Also, the Tactical Bomber is giving it a +1 Air Support bonus.
    This make now Tank the most important unit in ground combat.

    Fighter (A2 D2-3 M4 C6) is more versatile on Sea / Air / Land but have a lower offensive and defensive punch than Tank, and is unable to conquer land territory by itself while being directly vulnerable to AAA unit and other Fighter.

    Tactical Bomber A3 D2 M4 C8, applying Combined Arms to support 1:1 Tank +1 offense or defense. But very vulnerable against Fighter while able to directly destroy AAA ground units.


    This is a summary of their special abilities (some are house rules I already used and tested):

    ANTI-AIRCRAFT ARTILLERY A0 D1 CM1 Cost 3, 1 hit,
    Each round, up to 2 preemptive defense @1 against up to 2 planes, whichever the lesser, works similar to OOB AAA but can defend each combat round.
    Stop any blitz, and defend itself @1 against enemy’s ground units, if no attacking air unit is present.
    Can move during combat move phase, can be taken as casualty (owner’s choice).

    INFANTRY A1-2 D2 M1 Cost 3
    Get +1A if paired 1:1 with Artillery or Mechanized Artillery

    MECHANIZED INFANTRY A1-2 D2 M2 Cost 4,
    Get +1 if paired 1:1 with Artillery or Mechanized Artillery
    Can Blitz when paired 1:1 with a Tank

    ARTILLERY A2 D2 M1 Cost 4
    Gives +1A to 1 Infantry or 1 Mechanized Infantry

    (MECHANIZED ARTILLERY) (Self-Propelled Artillery / Assault Gun) A2-3 D2-3 M2 Cost 5 added for completeness
    Gives +1A to 1 Infantry or 1 Mechanized Infantry when paired 1:1 with.
    Tank Hunter as a Tank Support capacity: gets +1A/D when paired 1:1 with a Tank.
    Both bonus can work at the same time.

    TANK A3-4 D3-4 M2 Cost 6
    Can Blitz
    Allow Mechanized Infantry or Mechanized Artillery to Blitz on 1 on 1 basis or a 1:1:1 basis.
    Gives +1A/D to Mechanized Artillery when paired 1:1 with
    Gets +1A/D from Tactical Bomber when paired 1:1 with

    Both bonus can apply.


    FIGHTER A2 D2-3 M4, same in SBR Cost 6
    Air combat unit, Fighter as an Air Superiority aircraft: All hits are allocated to aircraft units first, if any available, then AAA, and finally other kind of units.
    Fighter as part of an extended Air Defense System:
    1 Fighter units receive +1 Defense if protecting a territory with an operational Air Base, (for 1942.2, 2 Fgs can scramble from a Victory City instead.)
    SBR/TcBR Attack @2, Defend @2, or even Defend @3 for 1 Fg if an operational Air Base is present.
    Can scramble in adjacent SZ up to 4 Fgs: 3 defend @2 and 1 defend @3, getting the +1 Defense bonus from an operational Air Base.
    Can hit submarines without Anti-Sub Vessel.

    SUBMARINES A3 D1 M2 Cost 7
    Surprise Strike, (blocked when at least 1 Destroyer or Anti-Sub Vessel is present),
    Submerge, instead of rolling for a Surprise Strike attack (blocked by ASV on a 1:1 basis for the first combat round only),
    Stealth Movement: No Hostile Sea-Zone (except ASV can block Submarine Stealth movement on 1:1 basis),
    Cannot hit airplanes,
    Can be hit by planes, doesn’t require an Anti-Sub Vessel.
    Re: Reality wrecking destroyer rules need a revamp…
    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34169.msg1372793#msg1372793

    DESTROYER A2 D2 M2 Cost 7
    Anti-Sub Vessel: each ASV blocks Surprise Strike capacity of all enemy’s Submarine units present.
    Cancel Sub’s Submerge on 1 DD:1 Sub basis for the first combat round only
    (When it occurs, defending Subs rolls a Defense @1 in the first round, and any surviving Subs can submerge at the beginning of the second combat round.)
    Cancel Sub’s Stealth Movement on 1 DD: 1 Sub basis for Combat or Non Combat Move, all additional Sub units can perform a Stealth Movement as usual.

    TACTICAL BOMBER A3 D2 M4 Cost 8
    All hits are allocated to Anti-Aircraft Artillery units first, if any available, then other kind of units.
    Combined Arms bonus with Tank, Tactical Bomber as a “Dive Bomber” and “Tank Buster”:
    Gives +1 Attack or Defense to any 1 Tank when paired 1:1.
    SBR/TcBR Attack @1 first strike,
    Allowed to do escort mission of Strategic Bomber without doing Tactical Bombing Raid on Air Base or Naval Base,
    Bombers (StB or TcB) are the first targets destroyed by interceptors.
    Cannot do interception mission on defense,
    TcBR damage: 1D6.
    Can hit submarines without Anti-Sub Vessel.

    TRANSPORT A0 1Def@1 Maximum per TPs group M2 Cost 8, 1 hit
    A transports group get a single defense roll @1/round along with defending warships
    (for this single defense roll, friendly transports are all considered being part of the same defending player’s group),
    and each transport unit can be taken individually as casualty. As long as their is still 1 TP remaining, it can roll this single defense @1.
    OPTIONAL: CONVOY protection
    To get less impact on the opening set-up battles, a lone transport at the start of a combat gets no defense roll but can be used as a fodder, since it still has 1 hit value. If a transport becomes single during a battle, it still get a defense roll @1, for the duration of the combat.

    Simplifying units interactions of Transports, Submarines, Destroyers & planes
    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34290.msg1320853#msg1320853
    Must be escorted by a warship when making an amphibious assault in an enemy’s Submarines infested SZ or Transports infested SZ, so to be able to ignore them/ or fight them with combat units.
    Otherwise, Submarines and Transports may be ignored during Transport Combat Move or Non Combat Move.
    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34290.msg1373212#msg1373212

    (1942.2 or G40.2 ESCORT CARRIER) A0 D2 M2 Cost 8, 1 hit, added for completeness
    Carry 1 Fighter or 1 Tactical Bomber,
    Anti-Sub Vessel, working the same as a Destroyer,
    Combined Anti-Air Defense when paired with Battleships or Cruisers: each Cruiser or BB get up to 1 preemptive shot @1 against up to one plane.
    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34985.msg1359001#msg1359001

    CRUISER A3 D3 M2 Cost 10
    Shore bombardment @3
    Combined Anti-Air Defense when at least 1 Carrier is present: each Cruiser gets up to 1 preemptive shots @1 against up to 1 plane.
    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34985.msg1359001#msg1359001

    Strategic BOMBER A4 D1 M6 Cost 10
    Strategical Bombing Raid (SBR*)/ TBR : Attack @1 first strike against up to 2 fighters, whichever the lesser, similar to AAA.
    SBR/TBR damage: 1D6+2 on Industrial Complex, Air Base or Naval Base
    Bombers (StB or TcB) are the first targets destroyed by interceptors.
    If destroyed by IC’s, AB’s or NB’s AA gun, a minimum SBR damage apply: 2 IPCs.
    No damage if destroyed by Fighter interceptor.
    Can hit submarines without Anti-Sub Vessel.
    Re: Rethinking Air Units
    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34502.msg1331015#msg1331015

    1942.2 FLEET CARRIER A0 D3 M2 Cost 14, 2 hits
    Carry 3 planes (Fgs or TcBs)
    Damaged Carrier can still carry 1 plane.
    Combined Anti-Air Defense when paired with Battleships or Cruisers: each Cruiser or BB get up to 1 preemptive shot @1 against up to one plane.

    G40.2 FLEET CARRIER A0 D3 M2 Cost 16, 2 hits
    Carry 3 planes (Fgs or TcBs)
    Damaged Carrier can still carry 1 plane.
    Fleet Carrier is an Anti-Air platform: AAA get up to 2 preemptive shots @1 against up to two planes.
    AND can also gets
    Combined Anti-Air Defense when paired with Battleships or Cruisers: each Cruiser or BB get up to 1 preemptive shot @1 against up to one plane.

    BATTLESHIP A4 D4 M2 Cost 17, 2 hits
    Shore bombardment @4
    Combined Anti-Air Defense when at least 1 Carrier is present: each BB gets up to 1 preemptive shots @1 against up to 1 plane.
    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34985.msg1359001#msg1359001

    SBR/TBR escort and intercept combat values:
    Fighter: Attack 2 Defense 2 or 3 (+1 to 1 Fg from an operational Air Base)
    Tactical Bomber: Attack 1 first strike Defense 0
    Strategic Bomber: Attack 1 first strike , as AA gun against up to 2 Fgs, Defense 0
    Bombers (StB or TcB) are the first targets destroyed by interceptors.


    I would allow 2 types of defensive maneuvers for aircraft.
    DEFENSIVE MANEUVERS allowed for 2 or 3 types of aircraft:

    • Aerial Retreat for attacking planes (all aircrafts can retreat while letting ground units pursuing battle),

    • Limited landing in a just conquered territory (which includes at least 1 ground unit): 2 planes (either Fighter or Tactical Bomber), as long as each units can provide 1 extra movement point for this special landing.


    I hope you will comment this whole A&A game changer (and feel free to talk about any features above, if you ever tried in your own F2F A&A game).

    New cost structure and document in this thread:
    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=36833.msg1469053#msg1469053

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