European (global) National Objectives as revealed by Larry so far

Why is archangel important to the Russians?

@idk_iam_swiss:

Why is archangel important to the Russians?

Given that Germany has closed the Baltic to Allied shipping, and the Italian navy makes access to the Black sea treacherous at best, Archangel represents the best (only?) major port to receive Lend/Lease goods, while also being accessible to the USSR’s primary centers of industry and military concentration (e.g. shipping goods into Siberia doesn’t do anyone very much good).

I belive some NOs should be-

RUSSIA
The Archangel one
The 6IPC one

GERMANY
Liengrad on Cacacus
Disrupt at least x IPCs of allied conveys

ITALY
There are lots they could have

Control of Med
Gibrulta and Malta
Cairo
Suez
Middle East

USA

France

UK

Conveys
All of North Africa+Med
France

@TitusAndronicus:

UK Bonus- Awesome.  Creates a little cat and mouse game in the Atlantic between German subs and the UK destroyers.  Sure, Germany can try to “hide” a sub somewhere but with naval bases now that’s not going to be easy.  Any rule that soothes the tendency for giant naval arms races in favor of small skirmishes a good rule IMO.

I think the addition of convoys will make the naval part of the game play out more historically.

The Germans don’t have to “arms race” the UK and US plus France navies to have an effect on the game navally, they can do what the Germans actually did in WW2, which was send out lots of subs to cause economic damage to the UK especially.  I’m guessing there will be convoy locations all along the coast of Africa and all the sea zones around Great Britain, so by spreading out a bunch of subs through different convoy zones they can suck income out of the UK without being required to take over Africa to do so.  And spreading out the subs will cause the Allies to have to produce more destroyers at 8 IPCs to subs at 6 IPCs to pick off all the subs everywhere that are sapping the life out of the UK.

The only thing the UK could do to try to prevent Germany from sending out 1 sub per turn would be to try to blockade the Baltic, which has always been dangerous in previous versions of A&A because it puts the navy in range of the German air force.

UK
Representing both the percieved and actual threat of the German U-boat fleet on Allied shipping
5 IPCs if no german submarines are on the game board
I like the fact that the UK’s NO is tied to German subs. I’m not to sure about anywhere on the board though.  The Baltic will be a German harbor for the most part w/new straight rule. Those subs should have to be out in the North Sea, or anywhere in the N or S Atlantic causing havoc (even if their not in a convoy sz). You shouldn’t be able to just launch them into your own harbor to stop the UK from getting a bonus. I don’t mind having to chase them down as UK (could see some sea battles along the Americas), but they should be a threat, not just hiding in the Baltic. Of course that would put a rather large bulls eye on Denmark and the Baltic fleet.

When they say anywhere on the game board are we talking about the Pac side as well (global). You shouldn’t be able to send a German sub to hide in the Jap navy either. Just just my opinion.

@SilverAngelSurfer:

I think the addition of the German NO for having a sub on the board and the addition of convoys will make the naval part of the game play out more historically.  The German NO will pretty much allow Germany to purchase 1 extra sub a turn while they still have a surviving sub.

This is a UK NO, and convoys would take $ away from UK. Germany would not be getting the ipc bonus for having subs on the board.

@SilverAngelSurfer:

I think the addition of the German NO for having a sub on the board and the addition of convoys will make the naval part of the game play out more historically.  The German NO will pretty much allow Germany to purchase 1 extra sub a turn while they still have a surviving sub.

The Germans don’t have to “arms race” the UK and US plus France navies to have an effect on the game navally, they can do what the Germans actually did in WW2, which was send out lots of subs to cause economic damage to the UK especially.  I’m guessing there will be convoy locations all along the coast of Africa and all the sea zones around Great Britain, so by spreading out a bunch of subs through different convoy zones they can suck income out of the UK without being required to take over Africa to do so.  And spreading out the subs will cause the Allies to have to produce more destroyers at 8 IPCs to subs at 6 IPCs to pick off all the subs everywhere that are sapping the life out of the UK.

The only thing the UK could do to try to prevent Germany from sending out 1 sub per turn would be to try to blockade the Baltic, which has always been dangerous in previous versions of A&A because it puts the navy in range of the German air force.

I think it’s been confirmed that France will contain two IC’s (one major, one minor), meaning Germany can build its subs off the English channel as soon as turn 2.  You also have to imagine if Northern France doesn’t have a naval base already Germany will plop one down.  It will either take a concerted SBR campaign on that French complex or a very expensive defensive navy by the USA and UK to lock down the Atlantic, or at least make German sub fleets too expensive for Germany to justify.

The goal for Germany should be to minimize the amount of troops the US can send to the UK, while also strangling London of as many IPC’s as possible.  Either way, the Battle of the Atlantic looks like its going to be one of the most important parts of the Euro and Global games (especially with an 80 IPC/turn USA in Global).

@WILD:

UK
Representing both the percieved and actual threat of the German U-boat fleet on Allied shipping
5 IPCs if no german submarines are on the game board
I like the fact that the UK’s NO is tied to German subs. I’m not to sure about anywhere on the board though.  The Baltic will be a German harbor for the most part w/new straight rule. Those subs should have to be out in the North Sea, or anywhere in the N or S Atlantic causing havoc (even if their not in a convoy sz). You shouldn’t be able to just launch them into your own harbor to stop the UK from getting a bonus. I don’t mind having to chase them down as UK (could see some sea battles along the Americas), but they should be a threat, not just hiding in the Baltic. Of course that would put a rather large bulls eye on Denmark and the Baltic fleet.

When they say anywhere on the game board are we talking about the Pac side as well (global). You shouldn’t be able to send a German sub to hide in the Jap navy either. Just just my opinion.

Actual and percieved threat

8 German subs in the Baltic would still scare the Allies into limiting the number of convoys heading to London.  Germany loses a bit in that strategy though by not having those subs out disrupting convoys or sinking expensive US transport fleets.  Besides, all it would take was one UK destroyer and an air force to lay waste to a bunch of German subs defending at 1.

If a German sub can snake its way past all the Allied fleets in the Indian and Pacific oceans to rendezvous with the Japanese I’d say its earned the right to be there.  The amount of SZ’s on the map now is insane, it’ll take 4 or 5 turns to finally make it to the Pacific.

@TitusAndronicus:

I think it’s been confirmed that France will contain two IC’s (one major, one minor), meaning Germany can build its subs off the English channel as soon as turn 2.

I think your right about the 2nd French IC (minor?). From what I remember it is on the Atlantic coast. Would have been interesting if it was in Vichy (Med coast). If Germany took Vichy (instead of Italy) they would have free accesses to the Med. I guess they could still take Vichy and build a minor IC. It will be interesting to be able to launch German ships directly into the Chanel/Mid Atlantic, and also the Germans will have access to the North sea as well between Denmark and the low countries (Larry confirmed).

@TitusAndronicus:

8 German subs in the Baltic would still scare the Allies into limiting the number of convoys heading to London.  Germany loses a bit in that strategy though by not having those subs out disrupting convoys or sinking expensive US transport fleets.  Besides, all it would take was one UK destroyer and an air force to lay waste to a bunch of German subs defending at 1.

I see your point, as I said if subs in the Baltic count (sounds like they will) then the Baltic will have a bulls eye on it (as it always does). With the new straight rules allies first have to take Denmark to gain access to the Baltic w/surface ships (not sure about subs). They also have to have some where to land their air units (can’t make it from UK and back).

@TitusAndronicus:

If a German sub can snake its way past all the Allied fleets in the Indian and Pacific oceans to rendezvous with the Japanese I’d say its earned the right to be there.  The amount of SZ’s on the map now is insane, it’ll take 4 or 5 turns to finally make it to the Pacific.

I just don’t like German subs way over in the Pacific causing problems in England, especially with India controlling what UK does on the Pac side (income and such). I would hope this is confined to the Euro board. You could still meet up w/Italian navy in the Med, I think I heard subs can get past (UK) Gibraltar, it only stops movement of surface ships (not 100% sure on that).

Are we sure this UK NO (German subs) is for both the Euro & global games?

WILD BILL,

I’m hoping the IC in Northern France is minor for Germany’s sake; it’ll be an extremely easy IC to SBR from the UK (well within the range of escorts from a UK airbase).  The UK airbase also might put UK and American fighters within range of baltic fleets, but if those straight rules are true the subs will be perfectly safe.  That really kinda lames things up, Germany just has to leave 1 sub in the Baltic.  I just dont think its feasible for Germany to hide a sub with the Naval bases, it’ll be way too vulnerable trying to get across the map and even if it meets up with Japan the US can catch it.