• Switch, I’m upgrading my computer soon, and I’ve been looking into barebones kits.  That might be an attractive option if you go AMD.

    On the AMD v. Intel question, I would go AMD, particularly their new AM2 processor line, which will allow you to take advantage of DDR2 RAM.  Think of it this way:  AMD is on their fourth generation of 64-bit processors.  Intel is really on their first.  Plus, AMD is a bit better for gaming in terms of frame rates, etc.  I hadn’t heard that Intel dual core is faster, in part because Conroe doesn’t come out until tomorrow.  Once that happens, we’ll see what the specs are, but I’m going with Athlon 64 3800+ AM2 because you can take advantage of the better RAM.

    Have you seen Tom’s Hardware’s CPU comparison?

    http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html

    And, whatever you do, DO NOT BUY A VIDEO CARD RIGHT NOW.  Wait at least until ATI and nVidia have released their new line that is DirectX 3D compatible later this year (finger’s crossed).  The stuff they are advertising say they are Windows Vista compatible, but that’s not the same thing.  Even if you get a top of the line today, you’ll be replacing it once DirectX 3D only games come out (Halo 3 next year, anyone?).

  • 2007 AAR League

    Unless you really need the portability of a laptop, spend your money on a desktop more bang for the buck.  Definetly go for the Dual Core, AMD usually paves the way on processor breakthroughs but Intel isn’t far behind.  Either one is good I’ve used both for years and haven’t come to a conclusion about which one is better. Â


  • Well, I am not a hard core gamer.  My gaming consists mostly of this site (type, and move on a board… but I hope to upgrade to drag and drop, e-mail the map :-P )  I also enjoy some Black Isle games like Icewind Dale, Baldurs Gate type games.  So I am not going to need the kind of vid/procesor capacity that it takes to run something like, say Halo 3.  Mostly it will be a web browsing, photo editting, office program and LIGHT gaming system (though I may try a few more “active” games, but not looking for hard core).

    My main problems right now are simply decay and RAM.  Over 4+ years, and 2 MAJOR virus hits as well as a few minor ones, I have lost a number of functions on my PC (not to mention my entire business database of MSDS sheets and links once stored in Outlook).  And with the background crap runnign on this old Gateway (right now I have 34 processes running, with the desktop sitting idle and my etnernet wire pulled I am still running 29) even a simple Java application is more than I can handle (thus my problemw with Triple A).  And it takes about 30 seconds for Firefox to even open… nearly 2 minutes for Windows Media Player to launch if I click a vid link.

    With that info in mind… does that change anyone’s recomendations?

    Oh, specs on current system:
    Intel Celeron  1200 MHz
    Intel 82815 Graphics Controller
    128 MB Ram (I know that is my main issue…)


  • It doesn’t really change my opinion, Switch.  I too like the Black Isle games (although it doesn’t exist anymore), and they are upgrading to directX 3D sometime over the next couple years as well.  It’s part of the reason I want to upgrade my computer.  I don’t play Halo, but everything in terms of hardware is moving in that direction, it seems (and unfortunately).  The integrated graphics controller often becomes obsolete pretty quickly, but if you’re not looking to purchase new games, then it should be fine.

    With Conroe coming out today, the prices are breaking on chips, so I would wait just a bit before scoping out the new processors and making a selection.  Plus, there’s the whole August roll out of new product, which should lead to a further price break.


  • @ncscswitch:

    Mostly it will be a web browsing, photo editting, office program and LIGHT gaming system (though I may try a few more “active” games, but not looking for hard core).

    Then the card I suggested to you will be perfect.  The Nvidia 5600 Ultra will do the job to play any of todays games (at the very least of low settings) and its not too expensive.  I will stress the fact that you need RAM.  It is very important to have that.  If you want to run multiple programs on your PC without it being choppy, get yourself at the very least 1 GB.  :wink:


  • @jsp4563:

    Unless you really need the portability of a laptop, spend your money on a desktop more bang for the buck.  Definetly go for the Dual Core, AMD usually paves the way on processor breakthroughs but Intel isn’t far behind.  Either one is good I’ve used both for years and haven’t come to a conclusion about which one is better. Â

    For me i need the portability.
    Also i am wanting this for “moderate” gaming - Star Wars, Black Isle, etc. - not Doom or Halo (yet).  Also i want this for the next 5-6 years (like my last notebook).

    Also an FYI -
    http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/07/14/core_2_duo_benchmark_results/

    for those loving the AMD right now (historically my favorite processor).


  • Wait, were you going for a “top of the line” Conroe?  For me, it’s about cost.  I’d prefer lower benchmarks with a better price/performance ratio.  But that article you linked is really encouraging for Intel.  Since I’ll be going for a desktop, I’m a little concerned about whether Conroe can handle DDR2 RAM, which is really where the power is coming from.  But, it looks like a good deal.

    As for the laptop lasting 5-6 years…well, good luck!  :-)


  • @Chengora:

    As for the laptop lasting 5-6 years…well, good luck!  :-)

    I dunno about that, I’ve been working on some Pentium MMX laptops lately that run pretty beautifully with a custom installation of Slackware Linux.  If it weren’t for their awful resolution and the fact that the 16MB of RAM gets a little choked when dealing with Java intensive web-apps, I would probably use one just for the web.

    As for your system, switch, no one deserves a celeron for a desktop.  Since you don’t need top of the line I’d recommend a Sempron or a single core Athlon (with the recent price slash they are quite nice and the Athlons are better than any P4).  Dual core if you’re willing to spend more than $150 on the processor alone.  As for video cards, ATI Radeon x1600’s should be able to do just about anything you demand of them, or maybe Nvidia 7600s as they should be comperable in price and performance.

    Other than that, if you’re building it yourself get a dependable power supply.  No sense risking your shiny new components with a psu that has the potential of frying them.  I trust Enermax, Antec, and Thermaltake mostly, but there are others that build quility components.


  • Well, it is here, and I am slowly getting it set up.  The old dinosaur is relegated to an e-mail reader for Angel :-)

    New unit is an HP Pavilion a1540n

    Running an AMD Athlon 64 x2 Dual Core 4200+ with 2 gigs of RAM.

    I even upgraded the old Celeron system for Angel… replacing the old 19" CRT with a 19" flat panel :-)

    In a few weeks, once I have a chance to download and check out the mapping programs, etc, I may even be able to clear my games queue!  :-)

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Get this one:

    http://www.sagernotebook.com/pages/notebooks/product2.cfm?ProductType=5950&SubType=V

    19.0" Wide Viewing Angles WSXGA+ Active Matrix LCD Display with Super Clear Glossy Surface
    AMD Turionâ„¢ 64 ML-44 Processor
    1GB DDR SDRAM at  400MHz [Expandable to 2GB]
    Dual Nvidia GeForce GO 7900 GTX PCI-Express 16X Graphics with 512MB DDR3 Video Memory in SLI mode
    80.0GB (SATA 5400rpm) SATA 150 Hard Drive
    8X DVD ± R/RW/ 4X +DL Multi Drive & Softwares
    12 Cell Smart Li-ION Battery
    Gigabyte Super 802.11 ABG Wireless LAN, Bluetooth Wireless, Intergrated 1.3M High-Resolution Video Camera, 4-in-1 Card Reader
    Optional external 3.5" 1.44MB USB Floppy Drive
    3D Stereo Audio AC’97 / SRS WOW
    Touchpad with Scrolling Slider
    1 Type II PCMCIA Slot
    Infra Red, Wireless Fast IR interface
    5 USB 2.0 Ports
    1 IEEE-1394 Port (4 PIN)
    Other Ports: 1 S/PDIF out, 1 Line-in, 1 Headphonet, 1 Microphone in, 1 Infrared,1 DVI out port, 1 S-Video-Out, 1 TV-in Port (Requires Optional TV-Tuner Module), 1 RJ-45, 1 RJ-11
    Additional Features: Integrated 10/100/1000Mbps LAN & V.90 56K Fax/Modem, Optional TV-Tuner Module with Remote.
    Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
    Auto Switch 110/220V AC Adapter, AC power cord, User’s Manual, Utility CD
    Dimension (H) x (W) x (D) : 1.2"~1.9"x18.7"x13.5"    Weight: 14.55lbs. with Battery
    One year Parts and Labor Limited Warranty. (3 year Warranty Plan optional.)
    Lifetime Free Technical Support

    And they say Laptops cannot make desktop gaming system replacement units!  Bah!


  • @Jennifer:

    Get this one:

    http://www.sagernotebook.com/pages/notebooks/product2.cfm?ProductType=5950&SubType=V

    19.0" Wide Viewing Angles WSXGA+ Active Matrix LCD Display with Super Clear Glossy Surface
    AMD Turionâ„¢ 64 ML-44 Processor
    1GB DDR SDRAM at  400MHz [Expandable to 2GB]
    Dual Nvidia GeForce GO 7900 GTX PCI-Express 16X Graphics with 512MB DDR3 Video Memory in SLI mode
    80.0GB (SATA 5400rpm) SATA 150 Hard Drive
    8X DVD ± R/RW/ 4X +DL Multi Drive & Softwares
    12 Cell Smart Li-ION Battery
    Gigabyte Super 802.11 ABG Wireless LAN, Bluetooth Wireless, Intergrated 1.3M High-Resolution Video Camera, 4-in-1 Card Reader
    Optional external 3.5" 1.44MB USB Floppy Drive
    3D Stereo Audio AC’97 / SRS WOW
    Touchpad with Scrolling Slider
    1 Type II PCMCIA Slot
    Infra Red, Wireless Fast IR interface
    5 USB 2.0 Ports
    1 IEEE-1394 Port (4 PIN)
    Other Ports: 1 S/PDIF out, 1 Line-in, 1 Headphonet, 1 Microphone in, 1 Infrared,1 DVI out port, 1 S-Video-Out, 1 TV-in Port (Requires Optional TV-Tuner Module), 1 RJ-45, 1 RJ-11
    Additional Features: Integrated 10/100/1000Mbps LAN & V.90 56K Fax/Modem, Optional TV-Tuner Module with Remote.
    Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
    Auto Switch 110/220V AC Adapter, AC power cord, User’s Manual, Utility CD
    Dimension (H) x (W) x (D) : 1.2"~1.9"x18.7"x13.5"    Weight: 14.55lbs. with Battery
    One year Parts and Labor Limited Warranty. (3 year Warranty Plan optional.)
    Lifetime Free Technical Support

    And they say Laptops cannot make desktop gaming system replacement units!  Bah!

    That laptop there is a tad bit overpriced Jennifer.  You can make the same kind of gaming laptop with Alienware for like 500 bucks cheaper.

    http://alienware.com/Configurator_Pages/aurora_m9700.aspx?SysCode=PC-LT-AURORA-M-9700&SubCode=SKU-DEFAULT

    @ncscswitch:

    Well, it is here, and I am slowly getting it set up.  The old dinosaur is relegated to an e-mail reader for Angel :-)

    New unit is an HP Pavilion a1540n

    Running an AMD Athlon 64 x2 Dual Core 4200+ with 2 gigs of RAM.

    I even upgraded the old Celeron system for Angel… replacing the old 19" CRT with a 19" flat panel :-)

    In a few weeks, once I have a chance to download and check out the mapping programs, etc, I may even be able to clear my games queue!  :-)

    Sounds like a pretty good PC Switch.  I see that you went with the extra RAM……which is very good.  The AMD Athlon Dual Core is pretty damn good.  What video card do you have and what was the total price for the PC?


  • NVIDIA 6150

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Mech:  That’s just an “off the shelf” model.  Last time I checked, Alienware did not even make a comperable model.

    The one you linked does NOT have

    1. SLI 256MB Graphics cards
    2. 19" Clear View Technology, Zero Dead Pixel Guarentee Screen
    3. Has a 60GB 5400rpm Drive, not an 80GB 7200 rpm Drive.
    4. Has 1024MB DDR 233 RAM, not 1024MB DDR 400 RAM
    5. Comes with the ML-34 not the ML-44 processor
    6. Comes with a CDRW not a DVD +/- R/RW

    If you do all those upgrades on Alienware (except the monitor size, which cannot be done, they don’t offer one that big) the price jumps to $3,338.00 vs Sager at $3,229.00 and Sager’s got a bigger screen.


  • Mine was under $1100 :-P

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @ncscswitch:

    Mine was under $1100 :-P

    The one I’m going to buy, probably, is only $946.86 with $150 mail in rebate and $50 instant rebate.

    But if you wanna go full desktop replacement, it’s gunna cost you what a desktop cost in 1995-1999, about $3k for a good one.


  • I thought I did rther well… respecteable PC, 19" flat panel, and 3-in-1 printer/scanner/copier, plus a nice assortment of software.

    With Angel’s flat panel, the router, cables, etc. the total was under $1500, and we have $65 in mail in rebates.

    Sales were pretty impressive last week due to NC’s Sales Tax Free weekend this weekend.  PC’s up to $3500 are included in teh sales tax exemption, so retailers had some serious sales the past couple of weeks trying to get folks to not hold off on buying PC’s until this weekend to avoid sales tax (they still have sales quotas to hit int he weeks before Tax Free Weekend :-) )

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @ncscswitch:

    I thought I did rther well… respecteable PC, 19" flat panel, and 3-in-1 printer/scanner/copier, plus a nice assortment of software.

    With Angel’s flat panel, the router, cables, etc. the total was under $1500, and we have $65 in mail in rebates.

    Sales were pretty impressive last week due to NC’s Sales Tax Free weekend this weekend.  PC’s up to $3500 are included in teh sales tax exemption, so retailers had some serious sales the past couple of weeks trying to get folks to not hold off on buying PC’s until this weekend to avoid sales tax (they still have sales quotas to hit int he weeks before Tax Free Weekend :-) )

    But, dear, that’s a PC!  You cannot really compare the price of a PC vs a Laptop, PCs will have better technology and lower prices!!!  I’m crying foul!!!

    Meanwhile, I just upped myself to $1399.56 with $200 in rebates (150 mail in, 50 instant) + 10% employee discount (my company does all the install work for CompUSA, but we have to wear their shirts when we do it in most states) for a HP pavilion dv8327cl.

    17" Widescreen
    1024MB DDR2
    240GB HDD (5400 rpm I’m sure)
    XP Media Center
    Intel Centrino Duo (which I’m told is better then the AMD Turion since it’s a dual core and 64 bit, instead of just 64 bit…)
    128 MB Graphics by NVidia
    Altec Lansing speakers…I love them, they’re almost as good if not better then Bose’ IMHO.
    ABG Wireless, of course.

    Only upgrade I’d want is a TV Tuner.

    All that and it’s only $1,079.61 + tuner card + tax!  (And I have a gift card for them too…free gift from their CEO for paying us a month late.)

    But if I had unlimited assets, I’d get the Sager.  Common, SLI 256MB Graphics boards!  It’s a gamer-girl’s wet dream…and women don’t get wet dreams!!!


  • @Jennifer:

    Get this one:

    http://www.sagernotebook.com/pages/notebooks/product2.cfm?ProductType=5950&SubType=V

    19.0" Wide Viewing Angles WSXGA+ Active Matrix LCD Display with Super Clear Glossy Surface
    AMD Turionâ„¢ 64 ML-44 Processor
    And more parts that will cause you to sell a kidney…

    And they say Laptops cannot make desktop gaming system replacement units!  Bah!

    There’s a big if there.  That’s if you’ve got the loot.


  • @Jennifer:

    Mech:  That’s just an “off the shelf” model.  Last time I checked, Alienware did not even make a comperable model.

    The one you linked does NOT have

    1. SLI 256MB Graphics cards
    2. 19" Clear View Technology, Zero Dead Pixel Guarentee Screen
    3. Has a 60GB 5400rpm Drive, not an 80GB 7200 rpm Drive.
    4. Has 1024MB DDR 233 RAM, not 1024MB DDR 400 RAM
    5. Comes with the ML-34 not the ML-44 processor
    6. Comes with a CDRW not a DVD +/- R/RW

    If you do all those upgrades on Alienware (except the monitor size, which cannot be done, they don’t offer one that big) the price jumps to $3,338.00 vs Sager at $3,229.00 and Sager’s got a bigger screen.

    Wha!?  I dont think you understood that page I linked.  You make the configuration that you want and at the bottom it will give you the exact price depending on what you wanted or didnt want.  I made a configuration with the exact same specs as that laptop you showed and it was almost 500 bucks cheaper.  It does have 256 MB SLI graphics cards and a DVD R/RW.  You can also choose beetween a M34 Turion or an M44 Turion.  It also has options for the RAM you also listed and  HDD.  Im not saying that laptop you showed sucks.  However if you want to save some money so you can spend it on, lets say……booze…or strippers…then that one I linked would probaly be more preferable.

    @ncscswitch:

    Mine was under $1100 :-P

    Not bad……seems like a good buy.  My friend made a good PC with almost the same specs as yours for about the same price…but he also got a sweet ass wide screen monitor.


  • Yeah, I know I could have made this myself for less, if I were confident in my technical ability.

    The kicker though in a PC under $1500 is included software.  You can definitely save money on the hardware, but then you end up paying through the nose for software.  With the under $1500 PC’s, the software load on most package systems is what shifts the price in favor of the package.

    High end units though…  definite cost advantage to doing a TigerDirect or similar empty case and add on construction.  :-)

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