Japan landing in western US –--- how can i do this?

[Jennifer]

I’d modify 505’s plan a bit.

A)  I would use 2 transports.  Take Midway and Hawaii.  This dispells any fear the US may have of a Land invasion.  After all, who’s going to invade California with 2 armor and 2 infantry???  B)  Position a BB with each transport, maybe even the carrier with some fighters.  This’ll just look like defending your transports against American aircraft. C)  If you want to use bombers get the LRA and follow 505’s instructions, but you really don’t need them.  W. USA probably only has a few infantry if that.  D) 4 Trannies in SZ60 and make sure you have 4 inf, 4 arm to move on them.  E)  Attack W. USA and Alaska simultaniously.  (This gives you a counter attack against W. USA when USA takes it back!)

Note, if you choose not to use the bombers in your attack, there’s no need to take Hawaii and Midway other then to dispell fears of an invasion by the US player.  It’s a risk, you take the land and you might loose units you have to replace before attacking, you don’t attack and you might cause the US to build up defensive forces.

Also, remember the soil is only worth 10 IPCs.  Try and limit your forces so you can justify this cost.  (2 Inf + 2 Arm = 16.  Land + 2 Defending Inf + AA gun = 21 IPC.  Can’t count the IC because you won’t be able to use it.)

Heck, with luck you might be able to take W. Canada and C. USA on your next turn before the US can retake and then you can go whole hog construction in W. USA.

[balungaloaf]

I had done such before, got kicked out, went north into canada, went east into more canada, came back into west canada, went into central america, then mexico, then the west america stomp when my ships with reinforcements arrived.  Germany was effectively putting pressure on america’s atlantic defense.  It was grand. :-D

[ajgundam5]

Japan may not be easily able to land in North America but something I noticed is that Germany can … if they build a lot of transports in the Med then move them to Sz 13 (?) under western europe they can invade Eastern Canada. You might all know this but I didn’t notice until recently. Very sneaky

[Guest]

Also suicidal in most cases :-)

[Guest]

There’s a detailed plan for this over on the Caspian Sub website.  It’s called the Canadian Shield.

The short version of the plan is this:
Germany:

• Build 3tra in the Baltic
• Invade Gibraltar
• Unite the fleets in Z07 on round two
• Invade E. Canada on round three

Japan:

• Build transports round one
• Ship gear to Buryatia round two
• Take gear from Buryatia to W. Canada round three

The whole paper is 7 pages long, so it’s a good place to start if you’re thinking about hitting the US.

Here’s the start of the paper:

---

**Those damn smug Canadians.  Every day they lord it over the US that their donuts are tastier, their money is prettier, and their comedians are more disgruntled.

It’s payback time, eh?

Eh indeed.**

---

It’s Policy Paper #13 in the Files section.

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Caspian_Sub/

Good luck.

[ajgundam5]

@ncscswitch:

Also suicidal in most cases :-)

yes but US prolly wont c it coming and if u have like 4 trans in med you can shuttle over say 4 inf and 4 tanks when usa has eastern us lightly defended you will b able to do damage in N. America maybe taking Central America and all of canada by blitzing which puts you up 10 ipcs, very helpful. I realize you will say it is a waste of ipcs but it will cripple US and distract them from pacific and atlantic for a while. hurts uk and usa at the same time and if u have been using those trans in the med you prolly should control most of africa and if japan took india nd possibly australia nd nz then uk will be gaining 8 ipcs per turn  :lol: which essentially puts them out of the game for a while and as long as u have a pretty good defense against russia you can counter attack. If japan just holds the US and UK pacific fleets at bay i think the axis can win.

i realize this topic is about the opposite coast of the US but im just trying to c if this is a viable strategy bc i like it.

[Jennifer]

Sure, if you could time it right you could land in E. Canada with Germany and W. USA and Alaska simultaniously before America even sees an invasion happening.  Just bear in mind that America will be drawing 37-38 IPCs a round, that’s plenty to kick you back out again, given what units they’ll probably have staged in E. USA for their assaults.

And kiss those german trannies goodbye.  You KNOW the American fleet and the allied airforces arn’t going to pass up a sweet target like those!

[Aretaku]

I, for one, LOVE the “Canadian Shield”

By the end of turn J3, you have…

W-Can
5 Jap Inf
5 Jap Tnk

E-Can
5 Ger Inf
5 Ger Tnk
1 Jap Bom
As many AC Jap fighters as you feel like moving over there

And also a German bomber in W. Europe to aid against E. US

And it’s cleverly disguised throughout the first two turns by looking like the usual German fleet consolidation and Jap transportation through Bury…

Then round three comes around, and BAM, while busy trying to ferry gear to it’s Allies, US suddenly has a huge threat to both it’s VCs…even if he can kill all the invading force, it’s a small price to pay for keeping the U.S. COMPLETELY occupied for at least two turns, for a fairly small investment.

An experienced player usually makes allowance for the possibility when Germany consolidates it’s fleet on G2, but even then, it’s hard for the U.S. to devote what it needs to prevent this double strike from at least partial success while still supplying aid to it’s Allies.

And God help those Allies if D.C. falls on G4 or J4…  :-D

[Jennifer]

I’d like more details on the Canadian Shield.  It might be interesting to try one day.

Back to the original point though, the question was asked on how to do it successfully.  It was never asked if this was a wise course of action or not.  So we came up with methods to do this, and then started to refine them in a way that it wasn’t a complete waste of units.

[jsp4563]

I tried a double landing in my first game against TC.  He had 6inf, 2fgt in E. US & 4inf, 1art in W. US.  Germany landed 2inf, 1art, 1tnk in E. Canada & Japan landed 3inf, 3tnk in W. Canada landing 3 planes in E. Canada to cover the German forces.  All was going well, I figured I had a good chance to capture 1 of his IC’s.  Then came the attack his 6inf & 2fgt from E. US against the 2inf, 1art, 1tnk & 3fgt in E. Canada, he wiped out my entire force losing only 4inf.  Game over.  The diversion of all those forces to North America left me nothing in Asia & the allies had Germany surrounded.

[Jennifer]

@jsp4563:

I tried a double landing in my first game against TC.  He had 6inf, 2fgt in E. US & 4inf, 1art in W. US.  Germany landed 2inf, 1art, 1tnk in E. Canada & Japan landed 3inf, 3tnk in W. Canada landing 3 planes in E. Canada to cover the German forces.  All was going well, I figured I had a good chance to capture 1 of his IC’s.  Then came the attack his 6inf & 2fgt from E. US against the 2inf, 1art, 1tnk & 3fgt in E. Canada, he wiped out my entire force losing only 4inf.  Game over.  The diversion of all those forces to North America left me nothing in Asia & the allies had Germany surrounded.

You shoulda had at least one fighter survive and retain the land, wiping out his forces, and that’s low luck…low luck always takes away more forces then you normally would loose in ADS.

You just had bad dice man!

[U-505]

@Jennifer:

I’d like more details on the Canadian Shield.  It might be interesting to try one day.

Jennifer, don’t bother with the Canadian Shield strategy. It’s basically a one-trick pony that won’t work on anyone twice and an astute US player will be able to prepare for it. It just costs a lot of axis money for a 1 shot deal that, should it fail, puts the axis into a big hole.
I’ve never seen it in action, however. But, it looks to me that the UK/US basically have to let it happen for it to work. It also requires a large group of armor to be stationed in Western Europe for the landings so that is a pretty good indicator. And the Russians should be making good progress in Europe because of all that hardware in Western europe and a ton of German money being spent on TP’s.

The easiest way to defeat it is for the UK to build a sub in sz7 on UK2. The german fleet won’t be able to load their transports in a hostile sea zone and a 1 turn delay means the UK/US should have enough naval units to crush the German fleet after that.

[Guest]

If the US sets up a traditional Shuck pattern, especially if you have a former Classic player using the Classic shuck in Revised, then there is no way in heck you are going to get a free, or even an easy, landing in Canada.  Both ECan and WCan will have somethign like 6-8 divisions there at all times from US2 forward.

[ajgundam5]

i understand all the people i play with have never used this strategy so I haven’t encountered it before.

[Jennifer]

@U-505:

@Jennifer:

I’d like more details on the Canadian Shield.  It might be interesting to try one day.

Jennifer, don’t bother with the Canadian Shield strategy. It’s basically a one-trick pony that won’t work on anyone twice and an astute US player will be able to prepare for it. It just costs a lot of axis money for a 1 shot deal that, should it fail, puts the axis into a big hole.
I’ve never seen it in action, however. But, it looks to me that the UK/US basically have to let it happen for it to work. It also requires a large group of armor to be stationed in Western Europe for the landings so that is a pretty good indicator. And the Russians should be making good progress in Europe because of all that hardware in Western europe and a ton of German money being spent on TP’s.

The easiest way to defeat it is for the UK to build a sub in sz7 on UK2. The german fleet won’t be able to load their transports in a hostile sea zone and a 1 turn delay means the UK/US should have enough naval units to crush the German fleet after that.

But I wanna use it against the computer!!!  (pout)

[Guest]

The most probable way to get to Western United States is to land in Alaska.

[Guest]

@U-505:

Jennifer, don’t bother with the Canadian Shield strategy. It’s basically a one-trick pony that won’t work on anyone twice and an astute US player will be able to prepare for it.

Yipes! That was a masterful demonstration that you do not understand the move.

As the paper mentions repeatedly, A) you don’t have to land the killer blow to get value out of the setup, B) you don’t do it in all situations, and C) if you are playing a good transport game, the setup won’t be a deviation from your normal pattern.

But other than that, you have fully understood the gambit.  :roll:

[Jennifer]

@CrazyStraw:

@U-505:

Jennifer, don’t bother with the Canadian Shield strategy. It’s basically a one-trick pony that won’t work on anyone twice and an astute US player will be able to prepare for it.

Yipes! That was a masterful demonstration that you do not understand the move.

As the paper mentions repeatedly, A) you don’t have to land the killer blow to get value out of the setup, B) you don’t do it in all situations, and C) if you are playing a good transport game, the setup won’t be a deviation from your normal pattern.

But other than that, you have fully understood the gambit.  :roll:

And the setup proceedure is……(insert drum roll here)

[U-505]

@CrazyStraw:

@U-505:

Jennifer, don’t bother with the Canadian Shield strategy. It’s basically a one-trick pony that won’t work on anyone twice and an astute US player will be able to prepare for it.

Yipes! That was a masterful demonstration that you do not understand the move.

As the paper mentions repeatedly, A) you don’t have to land the killer blow to get value out of the setup, B) you don’t do it in all situations, and C) if you are playing a good transport game, the setup won’t be a deviation from your normal pattern.

But other than that, you have fully understood the gambit.  :roll:

A) And if you don’t land the killing blow, what value will you get out of the setup with 5 armor in Western Europe and 3 purchased transports on G1? Perhaps an angry bird flip across the channel at the UK. I’m sure the Russians are getting plenty of value from that setup. If you assume value from that setup means the UK/US won’t be able to land in Europe for 3 or 4 turns, that they will have to purchase more navy than usual, or bulk up their ground forces before they have enough transports to move them from their staging points, then yes, that is value. But it is offset by the fact that Germany has made little or no gain in Africa beyond Egypt, Germany bought a bunch of transports that are costly and largely useless when a Baltic CV buy is cheaper and works better on defense, and 5 armor are sitting in Western Europe for at least 2 turns when they could be on the Russian front.

B) Exactly what situations you avoid using it in must be so insignificant as to not be worth mentioning in the paper or in your post, apparently.

C) What good transport game? With Germany? Japan always has a transport game. For Germany, it seems to be a very large deviation from any normal pattern I’ve ever seen. And where are the Germans going to transport anything if the gambit fails, anyway? Back toward Russia likely. Where they should have been from the beginning. Or maybe Africa. Germany should have made some gains there by G6.

There, have I even begun to slightly understand or am I missing a great deal of the subtle parts of the gambit?  :|

I notice you only quoted the first two sentences and didn’t bother to dissect the rest of the post. Perhaps I understood more of the Canadian Shield one-trick pony than you were willing to give me credit for.  :-o

Tell you what. When I am done with the 2 on 2 Tourney here, maybe Caspian sub can send one of their weaker players to this board to challenge my Allies, display all of the merits of the Canadian Shield gambit, and crush me. I’ll even play low luck so I can’t whine about getting worked over by the dice-roller.

[Guest]

Frankly, when it is so clear you haven’t really read the paper, why would I spend time debating you?  If you were serious, you would at least look at the original document rather than dismissing it like you know what you’re talking about.

I enjoy a good debate.  But you’re just beligerent.

As for playing a game, sure.  GenCon is in a couple weeks and at least two CSub teams will be there.  Show up and let’s see what you can do.

I don’t plan on replying to this unless something substantial comes up.  So the last word is yours.  I’m sure you’ll use it well.

Adios.