@cystic:
That was right after the liberation. It didn’t even take a decade for Degaul to start being a horse’s a**. In recent years, they have found our cemetary over there desectated with feces.
I saw a bum take a piss all over the place right outside the Ellipse, should we go to war here with the homeless people? Besides with people like you over here screaming “screw the French” every chance you get I wonder why they hate us and would do things like that.
Be nice if that was just a case study, but it’s not. A poll before the invasion of Iraq done in france showed that 1/3 of the country wanted us to lose the war. Not just “don’t attack”, actualy lose to the benevolant dictator Saddam. Agree or disagree with the war, that is ok. But 1/3 of the population was rooting for Saddam. That is truly screwed up.
not if you consider that they are not Americans, that they heard the things that Americans were saying about them for not participating in the war, and that they (and much of the world) sees Bush in the same light as SH. Furthermore - much right-wing US rhetoric sounds very much like fanatical AQ rhetoric to anyone outside of the US.
For me - i didn’t care if the US won or lost - i just didn’t want to see civilians getting killed and the country getting terrorized.
I wanted to add. People die in war. Civilian and military. More civilains died in WW2 than soldiers. Is that the condition you place on declaring a war? That there be no civilian loss of life? It does not work that way. We did not want to be in the middle east because of the problems we are having with Iraq now. If we wanted to be in Iraq we could of done it in 91. It was just a hop skip and a jump to baghdad. The situation sucks, I will not argue that point at all. You’re right.
But the right thing to do is not always (actualy seldomly) the easy thing to do. Should the rev. war not have been fought because our civilians died?
It is harsh, but you need to break eggs to make an omlet. I am sure if I was one of the eggs being broken my opinion would be different. But there is a greater good.
Fair enough I.L. My point is that i disagree that the greater good needed to be accomplished this way.
Or
The balance is off. There is/was more evil than good in the world done as a result of Bush’s actions in Iraq.
Now granted - i’ll never be able to proove this, just as i do not believe that the opposite can be proven simply due to the fact that a congruent measuring stick could not likely be agreed upon.
Also - i realize that in order to make an omelet some eggs must be broken. I considered this when Canadians went into Afghanistan, and i supported this mission. The thing about Iraq was that nothing about it was right. The optics were all wrong from the beginning, and they only got worse.
anyway, this is not what my thread was originally about. At the same time, i consider it interesting that in spite of the punishments received by Bush for not joining the coalition of the willing, and for being considered fair-weather-allies by many (including people of this board) and having our cars targeted by vandals in US shopping mall parking lots for not going into Iraq, we still top the list of countries who support the US right now. I am glad that we are doing it. It is the most humane and Christian response (returning good for evil) in this situation.
To teh “anti americanism”: …
it seems like the common opinion here is that the anti-american sentiments of the world are there only because we are envious because you are richand powerful.
So, you show anti-french sentiments here. I suppose you are only envious because they have civilisation and culture.
Must be it.
@cystic:
I believe you yankees and limeys
So are you suddenly a Russian again?
you forgot about us canucks.
I didn’t forget about the Canucks. It’s just the two big names of un-conquered allied nations (western) in the war were America and Brition. Of course there were french terrorists and Canadian soldiers, etc. Didn’t mean to diminish their contribution.
@F_alk:
To teh “anti americanism”: …
it seems like the common opinion here is that the anti-american sentiments of the world are there only because we are envious because you are richand powerful.So, you show anti-french sentiments here. I suppose you are only envious because they have civilisation and culture.
Must be it.
No, I’ve always been anti-French because they allowed an evil dictator to run their country instead of fighting to the last man.
At least Poland was actually conquered.
Then, top it off with the typical French attitude towards the English speaking world in general, and you begin to wonder why, exactly, we didn’t let the German’s keep the French?
My anti- German attitude’s been derived by your attitude of Americans. However, my brother is living there now and is telling me that many German’s are very glad America is doing what they are doing. So you must be in the minority. (He’s in Hamburg, in case you wonder. His wife’s being paid buukuu bucks for her knowledge on oil, though, don’t ask me the details, it’s got something to do with ultra high level mathematics and biochemistry.)
@F_alk:
To teh “anti americanism”: …
it seems like the common opinion here is that the anti-american sentiments of the world are there only because we are envious because you are richand powerful.So, you show anti-french sentiments here. I suppose you are only envious because they have civilisation and culture.
Must be it.
That sounds like a huge line of BS, sorry. There are many different cultures in the world, why exactly do the French get to claim civilisation and culture? You slipped right there, you just advocated the myth that because they are “civilized” (and I am guessing that means they drink thier coffee in nice little coffee houses). Talk about misplaced sentimental hogwash. Stop watching movies, and start living in the real world where having an accent does not make you civilized. Honestly, what makes them civilized other than the popular culture you have been spoon fed?
Are they jealous of us, of course they are (in general). Being “rich and powerful” is something everyone would be envious of. Do you think the vast majority of Americans are envious of the fact that the French are snooty and think they are better than others (to use your popular culture stereotypes)
umm
Zooey - you’re missing F_alk’s point.
We non-Americans find it kind of funny when certain Americans whine about “anti-Americanism” (also known as “criticism”) and then write it off as being because of “jealousy” because of the US’s power and military might. The joke is that obviously if we are anti-American because of our jealous, then obviously Americans are anti-French for the same reason.
(i.e. 1) we are not “jealous” but occassionally outraged by US foreign policy, 2) anti-French attitudes demonstrated by Americans are kind of a joke - i mean, i’m not their biggest fan, but some Americans are really the biggest whiners in this regard, and 3) jealousy doesn’t really have anything to do with it - we don’t think that Americans are actually any more jealous of the French than vice-versa - it’s just funny seeing certain Americans justify the reasons for “anti-Americanism” with words like “jealousy”)
No, I’ve always been anti-French because they allowed an evil dictator to run their country instead of fighting to the last man….
My anti- German attitude’s been derived by your attitude of Americans.
That’s funny. I would have guessed it was because we put the evil dictator in power the first place. That would have been a reason.
However, my brother is living there now and is telling me that many German’s are very glad America is doing what they are doing. So you must be in the minority.
No, it means your brother must be smarter than you. He is probably not trumpeting out strange opinions ony an hourly basis. And if that is your “family member’s first hand experience” … then look at the “many” from which you draw “majority”. I don’t say he is wrong, but your conclusion is just …stupid.
(He’s in Hamburg, in case you wonder. …)
The most english city of Germany.
@cystic:
Zooey - you’re missing F_alk’s point.
Thanks CC.
Who else finds it sad that even so obvious humor was missed by the USan here…… EJ, what do you think about that ;) ?
@F_alk:
No, I’ve always been anti-French because they allowed an evil dictator to run their country instead of fighting to the last man….
My anti- German attitude’s been derived by your attitude of Americans.That’s funny. I would have guessed it was because we put the evil dictator in power the first place. That would have been a reason.
Nah, it would have been a reason if high ranking officers in your military - to all accounts I’ve been privvy too - didn’t try to kill or remove from office in some way this evil dictator elected by the Germans. After all, Clinton seemed harmless until he came to power, can I blame America for voting him in?
@F_alk:
However, my brother is living there now and is telling me that many German’s are very glad America is doing what they are doing. So you must be in the minority.
No, it means your brother must be smarter than you. He is probably not trumpeting out strange opinions ony an hourly basis. And if that is your “family member’s first hand experience” … then look at the “many” from which you draw “majority”. I don’t say he is wrong, but your conclusion is just …stupid.
Actually, he’s a devout supporter of Bush. Even when I think Bush has lost his way, he supports him. Maybe you’re just weird?
@F_alk:
(He’s in Hamburg, in case you wonder. …)
The most english city of Germany.
Wouldn’t really know. Didn’t the French have the northern quarter? I know America had the southern quarter. shrug He bitches to me about the German’s not letting him practice his German and forcing him to use English. It’s rather humorous if you think about it…I mean, I know they want to practice their English on an American, but he was really looking forward to practicing his German (as bad as it is because he learned it from American school teachers.)
I will put it bluntly than. In world affiars, the french do not matter. It can’t be put any more simple than that. In there histroy, from time to time, they have mattered. Now is not one of those times. The only power France has in world politics is the vote WE gave them in the UN. I would much rather that Germany, Russia, or China… even Japan were so outspoken against us because in world politics those countries matter. The French do not, and they know it. So like a child that does not get enough attention they throw a fit, and target the US because if you want attention, go after the big fish. This can not be put any more blunt than saying that whatever France thinks is about as important as what Luxemberg thinks. I don’t want to hear thier opinion. They don’t matter AT ALL in the grand scheme of things. They are like a little yappy dog that will not shut up, and instead of the world placating them they should be told to just shut up when adults speak (the real powers of the world).
I do like the boycot of French goods that took place in America, and still does to a degree. Thier style of government is disgusting to me, a socialist nightmare. Thier culture is minimal to none in my opinion. I find more culture in a McDonalds than I do in all of France. And lastly I am disgusted with the french because without us they would be a fly speck on the map, and the culture you say they have would have been stomped out by any country that wanted to take the time to invade them. If you want to have an opinion, become self sufficient. Not ask for handouts and than complain about how your beneficiery makes his $.
Don’t bring up the revolutionary war, they jumped in at the end to thumb thier nose at England. Nothing more, nothing less.
Zooey - just because Bush says that France does not matter does not mean that this is true. Believe it or not, other people in the world consider France to be an important force politically.
Further to Canadian involvement:
Canadian divers began a three-day operation to raise a sunken vessel off the coast of Alabama on Sunday.
The divers in Alabama are part of several Canadian initiatives to help the U.S. South.
Divers in Bayou La Batre were working in 38 C temperatures to free a 120-tonne shrimp trawler that turned over and has been blocking a waterway.
RELATED STORY: Canadian ships sail to aid hurricane victims
A military medical team from CFB Greenwood, N.S., arrived in Pensacola, Fl. That team includes physicians, nurses, mental health specialists and a social worker.
Capt. Matthew Dionne, who is also a physician, said they will treat injuries and help evacuees deal with mental strain.
And a convoy of three Canadian naval ships was expected to arrive at the Gulf Coast Monday morning.
They are bringing provisions including clean water, massive tents, cots, body bags, assault boats, lumber, pollution cleanup equipment, bug spray, and even diapers and baby wipes.
I boycott French goods, but not because they’re French so much as American goods that are the same are actually superior in quality. For instance, our cheese houses are much cleaner then European’s because our FDA requires it to be so. Also, wine from California is WAY better then French wine and even the French have been forced to admit it.
Also, the French were a world force in the 1400-1600s. After that, they were pretty useless, except for Napoleon (who was really Italian.) They long for the day they were a world power and this gives them their attitude. And believe you me, it isn’t only directed at Americans! They show it to many different cultural population centers such as Brition, Italy, Greece, etc. On the whole, they are a bunch of snobs. I say, on the whole, because it isn’t true for 100% of the population, and it’s mostly in the Parisian areas that it is true, but that’s the perception many in the world, including myself, have of the French as a whole.
That and they couldn’t win a war if we took the worst army in the world, shot all their officers and didnt give them any guns. IMHO.
Who was really Italian
http://europeanhistory.about.com/library/readyref/blpersonnapoleonbonaparte.htm
Let’s see…born in France, married in France, led the French army, led all of France…not seeing where in the world you get Italy out of that at all.
Now would be the time to toss back one of your “get a education” remarks you are so famous for tossing at myself and others I imagine…
Who was really Italian
http://europeanhistory.about.com/library/readyref/blpersonnapoleonbonaparte.htm
Let’s see…born in France, married in France, led the French army, led all of France…not seeing where in the world you get Italy out of that at all.
Now would be the time to toss back one of your “get a education” remarks you are so famous for tossing at myself and others I imagine…
Born in Corisca which is part of Italy. Or at the very least, he was Corsican not Italian or French.
AFAIK, Jeanne de Arc was the last good leader the French had and they gave her to the British because they were afraid they might actually win the 100 years war…Fear of success, it’s a well documented mental disorder, you can probably find it in the DSM-IV, but you can definately find out about it online.
Born in Corisca which is part of Italy. Or at the very least, he was Corsican not Italian or French.
http://www.corsica.net/corsica/uk/discov/hist/
It’s been French since 1789, and as long as Napoleon was alive it was French, and today it is still French.
I’m not argueing it wasn’t conquered by the French, Hax. I’m saying it isn’t French and neither was Napoleon. He was a corsican living in a conquered territory who rose to power because the French were too inept to stop him.
Nah, it would have been a reason if high ranking officers in your military - to all accounts I’ve been privvy too - didn’t try to kill or remove from office in some way this evil dictator elected by the Germans. After all, Clinton seemed harmless until he came to power, can I blame America for voting him in?
But … they didn’t to kill or stop him until it was obvious that the war was lost. Some of them knew before, but felt bound by their honour and oath (that they had sworn onto Hitlers person directly!). No, the military is guilty. Never forget: Only because the military advanced the troops of the SS could begin to round up the Jews and other “lesser elements” and kill them.
Oh … and Hitler did write “Mein Kampf”, so everyone knew what his plans were. There is no excuse in saying “oh, we didn’t know he really would commit a genocide and start the worst war of all times”. He said he would, and he did.
Wouldn’t really know. Didn’t the French have the northern quarter? I know America had the southern quarter. shrug
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGHH
NEVER EVER say anything about history. France had the west (Saarland, Rhineland) as its occupation zone. The English had the north.
He bitches to me about the German’s not letting him practice his German and forcing him to use English. It’s rather humorous if you think about it…I mean, I know they want to practice their English on an American, but he was really looking forward to practicing his German (as bad as it is because he learned it from American school teachers.)
Maybe we just don’t want to hear people like you use our language ;) ?
Honestly: I don’t think that “we want to practice with a native speaker”. It is just that the average german’s english is probably better than his german… so for efficiency reasons there is no use in talking german. As long as the germans have the feeling that it is painful for him (or for them) to talk german with him, they will switch to english.
I’m not argueing it wasn’t conquered by the French, Hax. I’m saying it isn’t French and neither was Napoleon. He was a corsican living in a conquered territory who rose to power because the French were too inept to stop him.
There are no United States. Just a bunch of uncivilized colonists who have conquered some land from the savages……
“inept to stop him” … you should really STFU, Jen.
@Zoo:
Thier culture is minimal to none in my opinion. I find more culture in a McDonalds than I do in all of France. And lastly I am disgusted with the french because without us they would be a fly speck on the map, and the culture you say they have would have been stomped out by any country that wanted to take the time to invade them.
I also really have laugh each time when i hear that:
i don’t want to be thanked … but i hate them because they didn’t thank me.
For the culture … yeah. Stay were you are, do think that McD is culture. Go and buy, ditch. Your opinion is worth what … let me think … oh, and i am not complaining that you don’t thank me for my grandeur and effort to listen and reply to you.
@F_alk:
Wouldn’t really know. Didn’t the French have the northern quarter? I know America had the southern quarter. shrug
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGHH
NEVER EVER say anything about history. France had the west (Saarland, Rhineland) as its occupation zone. The English had the north.
See, this is why I put the question mark in that statement. Really, it was the NATO countries had the west and the Warsaw Pact countries had the east. I say that because it really didn’t matter if you lived in north, central (west) or southern Germany as long as it wasn’t eastern Germany - right?
EDIT: BTW, this is another instance when I am shown to be wrong and admit to being wrong. Just FYI. And yes, this does mean I conceed that it was British in the North, France in the middle/West, America in the South and the Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics in the East. - Who btw did not edit their history books any more then the allies editted theirs to paint the picture they wanted, as you alleged in another thread.
@F_alk:
He bitches to me about the German’s not letting him practice his German and forcing him to use English. It’s rather humorous if you think about it…I mean, I know they want to practice their English on an American, but he was really looking forward to practicing his German (as bad as it is because he learned it from American school teachers.)
Maybe we just don’t want to hear people like you use our language ;) ?
Honestly: I don’t think that “we want to practice with a native speaker”. It is just that the average german’s english is probably better than his german… so for efficiency reasons there is no use in talking german. As long as the germans have the feeling that it is painful for him (or for them) to talk german with him, they will switch to english.
Perhaps. But that’s not the reason they give him, at least according to him it isn’t the reason given.
However, it does raise an interesting point which is: Shouldn’t the entire world learn only Spanish (as it’s the language most of the world speaks) so as to facilitate inter-governmental and cultural communication? I’m sure speaking the same language would clear up a lot of the misunderstood thoughts and ideas and may actually lead to more peacefull less stressful times.
@F_alk:
There are no United States. Just a bunch of uncivilized colonists who have conquered some land from the savages……
“inept to stop him” … you should really STFU, Jen.
So you think the King of France wanted to be replaced by Napoleon? Or do you think, just maybe, he tried to stop him but was inept and was replaced by him…doesn’t that make more sense and doesn’t that give more honor to the defunct monarchial line before Napoleon, then say, he surrendered all his power to a general because he was a coward???
You should really STFU, F_alk. Especially when you create spin (ie Yanny’s locked thread) or just have no idea what in the world you are talking about as is the case in this arguement.
