Iraq is a political subject.
Iraq Casualties
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I think 80 soldiers dieing in a month is irrelevant considering there are probably more killed in training accidents weekly then 80.
However, I do know there are more murders in the major cities of the US, more deaths to car accidents and certainly more deaths in air accidents then have yet occured in any single month in Iraq - and I’m including civilian casualties as well.
I think the better question is would you want your son or daughter to be among the dead? This is the best and supreme criteria to determine if a war is just or not. I’ve yet to hear any of the republican congressmen who support this war so vehemently volunteer their kids to die there. This says it all to me.
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If Alexei was in the army, as a volunteer, defending freedom and following orders, I would prefer for him to die in war then in a training accident.
Does that help?
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AgentSmith, i think that is absurd. no parent, except the uberpatriotic, wants their child to die at war. this is no judge of whether the war is just. you can be ardently for the war, and still not want your child to be killed over there. that is just stupid. i expected better from you
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I think there is a difference between the word “want” and “willing”.
AgentSmith’s point might better have been made by
“would you be willing to have your child die in the absurdity in Iraq?”i think that this is something that Americans should really think of - are they so in favor of this war that they would be willing to sacrifice their child for its principles?
If they actually believed in Bush’s BS, then possibly. These people will vote for Bush. -
AgentSmith, i think that is absurd. no parent, except the uberpatriotic, wants their child to die at war. this is no judge of whether the war is just.
NO my point was would you want your child to die in this war. If I had children and knew they had to die in war I could live with WWII, but not Vietnam or Iraq.
you can be ardently for the war, and still not want your child to be killed over there. that is just stupid.
Or maybe the point is that war is stupid. You cannot call yourself just and expect someone else to make a sacrifice you would not. Therefore I would argue war itself is stupid, but especially this one, and most certainly the concept of preemptive war this admin touts as reasonable.
If Alexei was in the army, as a volunteer, defending freedom and following orders, I would prefer for him to die in war then in a training accident.
Being Russian/Ukrainian, I’m not sure, how would you have felt if your son had to die in WWI, or better yet in our Vietnam, or your Afghanistan. While death is always uneniable many even the pacifists can argue for the justice of the civil war or WWII, but what about Vietnam and Iraq? Like I said I could accpet losing my son/daughter in WWII, but not Iraq. Therefore not only can I not expect anybody else to make this sacrifice, but I feel I must prevent it from even happening at all.
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Janus,
I did not pick the comparison, I just pointed out why it was inacurate.Jennifer,
People still die in accidents. I would guess more not less, since war zones are harder to opperate in than free zones. Regardless, it’s ADDITIONAL casualties. Some people think having Americans die there could have (should have) been avoided. For them every American death in Iraq is a tradgedy. We are there now. What I hope Kerry does is rally people around the outcome. Rehashing the cause will get us nowhere. If Bush would have admitted the truth, like Tony Blair did maybe we would already be moving that direction. -
no agentsmith, its an absurd comparison.
a parent doesnt have to decide which war they want their kid to die in. they would pick no war. that doesnt mean the iraqi war was unjust. ask parents from WWII, they may have been proud if their kids dies heroes or even just doing something they believed, but i doubt any were even “willing” for their kids to die in WWII, let alone would “want” them to.
this really is the worst example you’ve ever tried to make.
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Personnaly, i cant think of any greater honor than dying for my country.
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@marine36:
Personnaly, i cant think of any greater honor than dying for my country.
so if i were to offer America $2.00 for the ability to kill one of its citizens, then you would offer yourself up?
sweet!
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I’d offer him up for $2.00. wink That WAS a joke!
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“Personnaly, i cant think of any greater honor than dying for my country.”
See I agree with Patton.
“No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.
He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.”In seriousness, dying is best left to the experts. Very old men and women.
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@marine36:
Personnaly, i cant think of any greater honor than dying for my country.
I can. 8)
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Well Liz, of course i would like to take a couple hundred enemis down with me. :) And stuka, what can you think of that is greater than laying your life down for your country?
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@marine36:
Well Liz, of course i would like to take a couple hundred enemis down with me. :) And stuka, what can you think of that is greater than laying your life down for your country?
oh
“I know i know!!”
how about 'living for your country"? -
Marine, You’ll realize eventualy that Dieing for your country isn’t as cool as it sounds right now.
Try helping to develope the cure for cancer or being the first man on Mars.
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Why do we search for a cure for cancer when what we need to do is figure out how to give someone the right cancer?
If you are dieing of liver disease, wouldn’t it be great to be able to cut the diseased portions out and make the good portions cancerous, then when it’s regrown, stop the cancer?
(If you want a cure, try taking 2 tablespoons of liquid drano orally. If it doesn’t work the first time around, double the dose and try again.)
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You seem to think im gonna jump in front of a bullet on purpose, I never said im anxious to die, i just said the most honourable way to do so is in the service of your country.
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why do we give so much honor to the first man on mars? how bout the people who get him there? they are the ones doing the work, he could be any other astronaut really. he just got lucky in getting picked to be the first one.
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why do we give so much honor to the first man on mars? how bout the people who get him there? they are the ones doing the work, he could be any other astronaut really. he just got lucky in getting picked to be the first one.
i dont’ know.
i’d say it takes a fair bit of courage and hard work to be lucky enough to be picked as the first one.
and i’m not sure that i’d like to be in space - it’s too easy to lose muscle mass quickly. -
i dont mean to denigrate their achievement, its applaudable and great (i dont know if i could do it, for example), but being an astronaut is the achievement, going into space is the achievement, going to mars is the fame, but not the achievement. you went to mars maybe because you are the best astronaut, maybe because its your turn, im not sure how nasa decides, but its the people who got you there who achieved. why is neil armstrong more famous than buzz aldren? because he stepped down first? BAH! that really means nothing. it was probably just the way they were strapped into the spacecraft. how bout the third guy? who even remembers his name? is his accomplishment any less great? he didnt step out onto the moon, but he still went there, he was still an astronaut…thats the praiseworthy part. actually being the first on mars is just fame and prestige, its no true accomplishment on your part.
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