I must have got the rules about the unprevoked declaration mixed up.
Starlight Sniper
India crush, how to stop
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Are we playing the same game ?
Do we play by the same rulebook ?
My game box says Axis & Allies Pacific 40, please check your box to see if it is the same box.
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Play a forum game and we can confirm the rules, the game edition and the India crush all in one fell swoop.
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Play a forum game and we can confirm the rules, the game edition and the India crush all in one fell swoop.
I will love to that, when the technology allow us to play fast in real time, like other on-line games.
So I guess we’ll have to wait then ? -
All I’m reading is….“nope, I don’t want to see all my bad ideas debunked.” I don’t blame you though, I didn’t want to believe in the India crush either, in fact you’ll note at the beginning of the thread I didn’t believe it either, then my gaming group caught on to it. So I thought maybe if I played forum games there would be some other strats to defeat it…nope. India just dies before the allies can get any kind of parity in land/sea forces and a decent player drives that advantage home every time.
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A naval base in Wake or Midway brings very little to the table. Even if you build it on turn two and move your fleet there the India crush happens on turn three and Japan can easily build nothing but navy to defend their home sea zone.
Are we playing the same game ?
Do we play by the same rulebook ?
My game box says Axis & Allies Pacific 40, please check your box to see if it is the same box.
Hey razor, perhaps you could elaborate on this strategy:
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Which turn do you build the naval base, and in which island?
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How much of what do you figure you’ll have there?
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How much money do you expect Japan to have for defense?
Certainly pressure on japan by USA is worthwhile to explore as a response to the J3 India crush, but I think we’ll need specifics if we’re to be sure it will work, and to explore defensive measures for Japan which may still allow them to crush India early. Maybe Japan can spar three destroyers (two can be built J2) to block the invasion till they have India’s money to spend?
I disagree, if India falls J3 or J4 the allies have yet to get into position in sufficient force to overcome Japan’s starting naval advantage, and they have not yet had enough time with economic superiority to have a unit advantage in general. And if India has fallen, with a major IC that close to the DEI, the DEI is lost to the allies as well.
The trick is that Japan still needs to capture Sydney or Honolulu to win, and those cities are closer to the Allies than they are to Japan (especially with Japanese forces diverted to India). By the time Japan reaches these cities, the Allies may have had a chance to catch up.
I haven’t played enough A&A: Pacific 1940 yet (who has?), and may well never before switching to mostly A&A: Global 1940, but I think the issue is still open at this point.
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Razor,
If you have a real solution, I’m all over it. Playing by forum is not the pain you think it is. I’m more than happy to have you smash me with the allies - it may enlighten me. Give it a shot, you may like playing by forum.
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A naval base in Wake or Midway brings very little to the table. Even if you build it on turn two and move your fleet there the India crush happens on turn three and Japan can easily build nothing but navy to defend their home sea zone.
I have yet to see it tried, but I’ve thought US buying a naval base US1 should be an essential counter to an all-out India crush. buying one for midway and moving all ships there US1 allows US to invade (with planes) Korea or Japan on US2, if Japan doesn’t keep 3 DDs up north on J1 (which makes things difficult for them down south). Am I missing something?
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Buying a base means you can only hit Kor with 1 TT - hardly a threat to Kor when Jap backs them up into Man. US 3 at the earliest. Probably not even then.
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Buying a base means you can only hit Kor with 1 TT - hardly a threat to Kor when Jap backs them up into Man. US 3 at the earliest. Probably not even then.
Buying a base you can hit Kor/Jap w/ 2, possibly 3 loaded transports, 1 cc, 1 bb, 1 fig, 1 tac, and (for Kor) possibly 3 bmrs. I think that’s quite a threat considering what is usually left on Japan and Kor in an all-out India crush.
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There will only be 1 TT on US 2, and only 2 planes to hit Kor or Jap with. Not enough. Maybe by US 3, but the Jap fleet (minus carriers) will be back in Phi.
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Stoney, after you crush me in the game we are now playing, we can give it a go - but I’m Japan :-D
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It seems the Jap counter will be an airbase in KWA, then if you go near the coast they can send the entire airforce at you. Essentially you’ll only get one turn of free movement, when the Japanese airforce actually goes in for the India crush.
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There will only be 1 TT on US 2, and only 2 planes to hit Kor or Jap with. Not enough. Maybe by US 3, but the Jap fleet (minus carriers) will be back in Phi.
I guess other ppl do the India crush different than I do. Do other people kill the z26 trn J1? I like being able to not attack on J1 b/c I can still get just as far by J3 (India+ some) and US doesn’t get the extra load of $$. However, I might not be able to do that strat if US buys the base on US1.
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It seems the Jap counter will be an airbase in KWA, then if you go near the coast they can send the entire airforce at you. Essentially you’ll only get one turn of free movement, when the Japanese airforce actually goes in for the India crush.
You can’t scramble from non-island airbases.
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He’s not talking about scrambling from Kwa - US fleet would be nowhere near there.
He means that you need to time it right, because with the India push there are about 18 planes in Kwa, another 6 on CV and the remaining couple in Jap. With the airbase in Kwa, all planes make it back to attack the US fleet in sz6 along with some Jap ships.
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I know this is the forum for how to STOP the India crush, but I came up with a strategy for crushing India, and since I’m a beginner, I’m very excited about it. If this is old news, I’m sorry, but it’s new to me!
J1:
-Buy 3 transports in Japan
-Bomb the crap outta all the Chinese units you can, take Yunnan, Hunan, Anhwe and Chahar. All strategic bombers MUST end in Kwangsi.
-Move your fleet from SZ6 and SZ19 to SZ36, bringing a tank, two infantry and an artillery on the transports. Leave the SZ6 (not SZ19) destroyers behind.
-DO NOT DECLARE ON THE ALLIES… yet.Allied1:
-They will probably see the giant stack coming, so most ANZAC and US units will most likely move towards India. UK units will start moving out, and they will take all the Dutch islands.
-Yunnan will be retaken.J2:
-Buy a naval base and an air base in Kwangsi. Move the navy you have in SZ36 to take India (after taking care of the navy that will probably be in Malaysia), and attack with your strategic bombers in Kwangsi too.
-Take the Philippines with the Caroline Islands navy, and take out the battleship/transports in the East Indies with it too.
-Keep taking China, including Yunnan.
-Defend SE Asia with fighters and tacticals.
-Move your 3 transports (loaded with 5 infantry and 1 artillery) and 2 destroyers to SZ36.
-Defend Japan with fighters and a couple infantry, should the US attack.
-If you feel confident, take Shan State (may work, will weaken UK).
-Build a defending navy in Japan.Allied2:
-Yunnan and India will be retaken.
-SE Asia MAY fall to the Allies.
-Japan MAY fall to the US.
-UK MAY build an IC in Malaysia.J3:
-With your SZ36 transports either: retake Japan, or retake India. Retake Japan if it was taken, retake India if Japan wasn’t taken. If your going to take India, and an IC was built in Malaysia, take Malaysia on the way over with a couple infantry. Bombing is ESSENTIAL here.
-Keep taking China. Take Yunnan.
-With your SZ36 destroyers, move to defend your Pacific Islands.Allied3:
-Be wary of ANZAC raiding parties at this point, as they will have had a chance to get into the Indies. Much of the Japanese Pacific is at risk. Your SZ36 destroyers will have to defend the Caroline Islands and the Philippines.
-The US will be weakened from their attempt to take Japan. Even if they did take it, you will most likely have retaken it. If not, you lose.J4-J5:
-Take the rest of SE Asia, finish off the Chinese (or try) and take the Dutch Islands (+Borneo) with your transports and any units you can get onto them.
-Now you can either head for Honolulu or Sydney, and you’re making so many IPCs your opponent might as well surrender.The point of this strategy is to cut the UK off of production, and thus roughly 40 of their IPCs will go down the drain, possibly more, I didn’t do the math. They will only be able to build 16 IPCs worth of stuff on their first turn, and every other turn will be building up money until Japan wipes them out. It’s a little risky (due to leaving Japan fairly weak), but it might make for a fun change from the usual J1 India crush. However, I’m betting that either there is a giant flaw in this plan AND/OR it doesn’t adhere to all the rules. Either way, I would love to hear what you think of it. :-)
Again, sorry for going off-topic… but better than making a thread that would just clutter this forum up, right…? Riiiiight…?
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I know this is the forum for how to STOP the India crush, but I came up with a strategy for crushing India, and since I’m a beginner, I’m very excited about it. If this is old news, I’m sorry, but it’s new to me!
J1:
-Buy 3 transports in Japan
-Bomb the crap outta all the Chinese units you can, take Yunnan, Hunan, Anhwe and Chahar. All strategic bombers MUST end in Kwangsi.
-Move your fleet from SZ6 and SZ19 to SZ36, bringing a tank, two infantry and an artillery on the transports. Leave the SZ6 (not SZ19) destroyers behind.
-DO NOT DECLARE ON THE ALLIES… yet.Allied1:
-They will probably see the giant stack coming, so most ANZAC and US units will most likely move towards India. UK units will start moving out, and they will take all the Dutch islands.
-Yunnan will be retaken.J2:
-Buy a naval base and an air base in Kwangsi. Move the navy you have in SZ36 to take India (after taking care of the navy that will probably be in Malaysia), and attack with your strategic bombers in Kwangsi too.
-Take the Philippines with the Caroline Islands navy, and take out the battleship/transports in the East Indies with it too.
-Keep taking China, including Yunnan.
-Defend SE Asia with fighters and tacticals.
-Move your 3 transports (loaded with 5 infantry and 1 artillery) and 2 destroyers to SZ36.
-Defend Japan with fighters and a couple infantry, should the US attack.
-If you feel confident, take Shan State (may work, will weaken UK).
-Build a defending navy in Japan.Allied2:
-Yunnan and India will be retaken.
-SE Asia MAY fall to the Allies.
-Japan MAY fall to the US.
-UK MAY build an IC in Malaysia.J3:
-With your SZ36 transports either: retake Japan, or retake India. Retake Japan if it was taken, retake India if Japan wasn’t taken. If your going to take India, and an IC was built in Malaysia, take Malaysia on the way over with a couple infantry. Bombing is ESSENTIAL here.
-Keep taking China. Take Yunnan.
-With your SZ36 destroyers, move to defend your Pacific Islands.Allied3:
-Be wary of ANZAC raiding parties at this point, as they will have had a chance into the Indies. Much of the Japanese Pacific is at risk. Your SZ36 destroyers will have to defend the Caroline Islands and the Philippines.
-The US will be weakened from their attempt to take Japan. Even if they did take it, you will most likely have retaken it. If not, you lose.J4-J5:
-Take the rest of SE Asia, finish off the Chinese (or try) and take the Dutch Islands (+Borneo) with your transports and any units you can get onto them.
-Now you can either head for Honolulu or Sydney, and you’re making so many IPCs your opponent might as well surrender.The point of this strategy is to cut the UK off of production, and thus roughly 40 of their IPCs will go down the drain, possibly more, I didn’t do the math. They will only be able to build 16 IPCs worth of stuff on their first turn, and every other turn will be building up money until Japan wipes them out. It’s a little risky (due to leaving Japan fairly weak), but it might make for a fun change from the usual J1 India crush. However, I’m betting that either there is a giant flaw in this plan AND/OR it doesn’t adhere to all the rules. Either way, I would love to hear what you think of it. :-)
Again, sorry for going off-topic… but better than making a thread that would just clutter this forum up, right…? Riiiiight…?
I also enjoy the J2 India crush as I said before. See here and here. I still think I might not be able to win with it if the US puts a naval base on Midway turn 1, but my opponents don’t do this!
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I know this is the forum for how to STOP the India crush, but I came up with a strategy for crushing India, and since I’m a beginner, I’m very excited about it. If this is old news, I’m sorry, but it’s new to me!
J1:
-Buy 3 transports in Japan
-Bomb the crap outta all the Chinese units you can, take Yunnan, Hunan, Anhwe and Chahar. All strategic bombers MUST end in Kwangsi.
-Move your fleet from SZ6 and SZ19 to SZ36, bringing a tank, two infantry and an artillery on the transports. Leave the SZ6 (not SZ19) destroyers behind.
-DO NOT DECLARE ON THE ALLIES… yet.Allied1:
-They will probably see the giant stack coming, so most ANZAC and US units will most likely move towards India. UK units will start moving out, and they will take all the Dutch islands.
-Yunnan will be retaken.J2:
-Buy a naval base and an air base in Kwangsi. Move the navy you have in SZ36 to take India (after taking care of the navy that will probably be in Malaysia), and attack with your strategic bombers in Kwangsi too.
-Take the Philippines with the Caroline Islands navy, and take out the battleship/transports in the East Indies with it too.
-Keep taking China, including Yunnan.
-Defend SE Asia with fighters and tacticals.
-Move your 3 transports (loaded with 5 infantry and 1 artillery) and 2 destroyers to SZ36.
-Defend Japan with fighters and a couple infantry, should the US attack.
-If you feel confident, take Shan State (may work, will weaken UK).
-Build a defending navy in Japan.Allied2:
-Yunnan and India will be retaken.
-SE Asia MAY fall to the Allies.
-Japan MAY fall to the US.
-UK MAY build an IC in Malaysia.J3:
-With your SZ36 transports either: retake Japan, or retake India. Retake Japan if it was taken, retake India if Japan wasn’t taken. If your going to take India, and an IC was built in Malaysia, take Malaysia on the way over with a couple infantry. Bombing is ESSENTIAL here.
-Keep taking China. Take Yunnan.
-With your SZ36 destroyers, move to defend your Pacific Islands.Allied3:
-Be wary of ANZAC raiding parties at this point, as they will have had a chance to get into the Indies. Much of the Japanese Pacific is at risk. Your SZ36 destroyers will have to defend the Caroline Islands and the Philippines.
-The US will be weakened from their attempt to take Japan. Even if they did take it, you will most likely have retaken it. If not, you lose.J4-J5:
-Take the rest of SE Asia, finish off the Chinese (or try) and take the Dutch Islands (+Borneo) with your transports and any units you can get onto them.
-Now you can either head for Honolulu or Sydney, and you’re making so many IPCs your opponent might as well surrender.The point of this strategy is to cut the UK off of production, and thus roughly 40 of their IPCs will go down the drain, possibly more, I didn’t do the math. They will only be able to build 16 IPCs worth of stuff on their first turn, and every other turn will be building up money until Japan wipes them out. It’s a little risky (due to leaving Japan fairly weak), but it might make for a fun change from the usual J1 India crush. However, I’m betting that either there is a giant flaw in this plan AND/OR it doesn’t adhere to all the rules. Either way, I would love to hear what you think of it. :-)
Again, sorry for going off-topic… but better than making a thread that would just clutter this forum up, right…? Riiiiight…?
If UK blocks Malaya SZ w/ a Destroyer, the SZ36 Fleet can’t get to India on the 2nd turn. You can’t use the ships in a sea combat and then an amphib in different SZ’s.
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If UK blocks Malaya SZ w/ a Destroyer, the SZ36 Fleet can’t get to India on the 2nd turn. You can’t use the ships in a sea combat and then an amphib in different SZ’s.
You could bomb the destroyer/cruiser with tacticals first, and then bomb India with strategic bombers and THEN attack India with an amphibious assault, could you not? I somehow doubt it, but could you?
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If UK blocks Malaya SZ w/ a Destroyer, the SZ36 Fleet can’t get to India on the 2nd turn. You can’t use the ships in a sea combat and then an amphib in different SZ’s.
You could bomb the destroyer/cruiser with tacticals first, and then bomb India with strategic bombers and THEN attack India with an amphibious assault, could you not? I somehow doubt it, but could you?
I don’t think nickel is trying to get to Ind on J2. he’s going on J3. With the right Japanese moves, you can succussfully invade India on J3 with a J2 attack, regardless of Allied movements. My question would be whether or not the Allies can take enough advantage of this “all-out” maneuver to put Japan in trouble even after India falls or force it to abandon the all-out India assault (at least to the degree that it is too costly) in order to defend Kor/Jap.
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