It seems to be a popular view that Japan is wasting its money if it buys a complex before it has maxed out the first one (i.e. is transporting 8 units/turn to the mainland). However, I am of the opinion that 2 tran 1 IC–this is assuming $1 bid to Japan–is the optimal J1 purchase for getting units to the mainland quickly. There was an old thread (sorry, I couldn’t find the link on my first search and I’m too lazy to look harder) that had some calculations to this effect, but for the short version, consider:
—If you build 3 tran on J1, you can put 8 units in Asia on your second turn. However, with 2 tran 1 IC you can get 9 units there: 6 from your three transports, and three more from your complex. With a 2 IC purchase it’s down to 8 again, one from your transport and 6 from your complexes. (I’m assuming throughout that the UK killed your transport in SZ 59 so that you only have one to start with.) So if you’re trying to get as many units to Asia on J2 as you can, 2 tran 1 IC is the way to go.
—4 tran on J1, using a bid of $2, is also a good way to start fast. However, in this case your capacity outstrips your income; it will be a couple rounds before you can actually get new units fast enough to keep your transports busy. The 2 tran 1 IC buy is better optimized at keeping your production/transport capacity matched up with the number of units you can afford to produce. In particular, a 4 tran J1 purchase enables you to put as many as 10 units into Asia on J2 if you clean out Philippines, East Indies, Okinawa, and Wake, but then you run out of island units and can only make up to 8 new ones in Japan. So you get a lot of inf on J2 but it’s more of an anomaly, where the 2 tran 1 IC buy gives you a smoother and more continuous startup.
—As far as location, I like FIC the best. Kwang is farther from Moscow than either Fic or Man, so if you’re trying to put pressure on the Russians quickly you want either Fic or Man. You can supply plenty of troops to the northern area from Japan itself, so the complex is needed more on the southern end. Plus it enables you to get to Africa, Caucasus, etc better.
—So far I’ve been assuming KGF. In KJF you should certainly be a bit more hesitant about getting factories up quickly. However, I’ve found that a FIC complex, which is always where I build on J1 if I build a factory at all, can be very helpful in KJF. Ideally when defending against an American fleet you want to defend as far out as possible, e.g. with a fleet in the Caroline or even Solomon islands. However, if you’re forced to fall back, FIC is a great fallback point. The key thing about it is that it borders all three of your valuable islands. If you get in trouble you can fall back to SZ 36 and build more ships there to join your retreating fleet. Often this will be enough to prevent the Americans from taking any of those expensive islands right away. If your only factory is in Japan you’re forced to keep your navy farther north to incorporate the new builds, and the Americans have an easier time getting to the southern islands.
IC for US and UK
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Do your normal turn 1 landings in Algeria with UK and US forces. Start moving your panama destroyer over towards brazil, fly fighter from EUS to land in brazil.
Turn 1 purchase 1 IC in brazil
2 Transport in EUS
1 Tank
2 InfThis way you will have taken algeria, on turn 1
You can send more reenforcements there turn 2 including air, and will have about 3 transports down there to send your turn 2 brazilian purchases over. -
Honestly, the benefit I see in Brazil is that you need half as many transports and they are out of range for the Luftwaffe meaning you are better equipped to send your fleet into the Pacific.
In a traditional kill Germany first game, Switch may be correct in that it may not be cost effective. (Even in a KJF possibly, since you could have 2 transports bring units from E. USA to Brazil and 2 from Brazil to S. Africa for only a 1 IPC increase in price over the industrial complex option.)
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The 2x2 TRN option also gives you the option for 33% more ground forces to Africa each turn.
4 units instead of only 3, and you do it for only 1 IPC more up front; as well as being able to shift to a 4x4 into Algeria, or a 2x2 into Europe if you choose. No such option with a Brazil IC without spending a lot more cash.
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A major thing I like about the IC in Brazil is that landing in Algeria the traditional way leaves you pretty open to a counter attack with the German Battleship, and all of the german fighters that could be surrounding the med. To me, this is much safer. Unfortunately my game isn’t for a while, so I won’t be able to tell you how it works for a few weeks. Keep the advice coming. I am not an experienced US player, and I really want to get in the fight fast with them.
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BTW, I should mention you need more than two transports to continually route E. USA units through Brazil. Brazil is 2 sea zones away from E. USA, not 1. So there’s a major cost increase in going that route. (2 Transports in SZ 10, 2 Transports in SZ 18 and 2 Transports in SZ 22).
So you need 6 Transports (48 IPC) or an Industrial Complex and 2 Transports (31 IPC.)
The 6 transports gives you an extra unit, but is it really worth the extra 17 IPC?
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@Cmdr:
BTW, I should mention you need more than two transports to continually route E. USA units through Brazil. Brazil is 2 sea zones away from E. USA, not 1. So there’s a major cost increase in going that route. (2 Transports in SZ 10, 2 Transports in SZ 18 and 2 Transports in SZ 22).
So you need 6 Transports (48 IPC) or an Industrial Complex and 2 Transports (31 IPC.)
The 6 transports gives you an extra unit, but is it really worth the extra 17 IPC?
You don’t need 6 transports if you set-up the feed right with ground units. When you buy 2 transports for EUS, you need to buy units to fill the transports immediately as well as units to move to panama from EUS the next turn. So you would need 8 units.
Once these transports move from SZ10 (EUS) to brazil (sz18), then these two transports only need to move to panama and back to load units to move to brazil.
You do the same thing for a chain of units (shuck-shuck) to algeria as well.
I do not think you would need that many units being moved to africa (4 transports).
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Yea, I guess, if you want to move them down to Panama before shipping them over seas to Brazil then over seas again to Africa
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NOW you are talking about a USA that is ignoring Japan AND is slow against Germany.
As the Axis, this would make me happy…
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@ncscswitch:
NOW you are talking about a USA that is ignoring Japan AND is slow against Germany.
As the Axis, this would make me happy…
No, we’re talking about an alternate route for the US to keep Africa liberated without having to re-divert it’s fleet away from Europe. At most Germany will see a reprieve of 30% in purchasing power in one round and a reprieve of 9-11 IPC from America each summary round. (Note that Germany will also be short about 11 IPC from the loss of all of Africa so that’s pretty much a wash there.)
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The North African Dominance (NAD) strat is FAR superior to the Brazil IC strat for keeping Africa in Allied hands.
It requires fewer transports, achieves the same purpose in allowing for Allied landings south of Sahara, and does so with far fewer IPC’s committed by the Allies. It also maintains an Allied shift-threat to northern Europe, AND an Allied threat to Southern Europe that the Brazil IC does not accomplish.
But hey, if you want to waste the cash, feel free.
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@ncscswitch:
The North African Dominance (NAD) strat is FAR superior to the Brazil IC strat for keeping Africa in Allied hands.
It requires fewer transports, achieves the same purpose in allowing for Allied landings south of Sahara, and does so with far fewer IPC’s committed by the Allies. It also maintains an Allied shift-threat to northern Europe, AND an Allied threat to Southern Europe that the Brazil IC does not accomplish.
But hey, if you want to waste the cash, feel free.
IF Germany has invested money in a Med fleet, then an allied investment in kind to Africa via a Brazilian IC is a good safe play.
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@ncscswitch:
The North African Dominance (NAD) strat is FAR superior to the Brazil IC strat for keeping Africa in Allied hands.
It requires fewer transports, achieves the same purpose in allowing for Allied landings south of Sahara, and does so with far fewer IPC’s committed by the Allies. It also maintains an Allied shift-threat to northern Europe, AND an Allied threat to Southern Europe that the Brazil IC does not accomplish.
But hey, if you want to waste the cash, feel free.
Yea, but you taught me very well how to bottle up the North African Dominance strategy with very little effort and resources with Germany.
Sorry to say it, but NAD is not superior, it’s inferior against a veteran player. Too easy for Germany/Japan to dump in Egypt and now Germany is +9 IPC and England/America is +2 IPC (Algeria, Libya) for a net +7 to the Axis.
However, if moving from Brazil/S. Africa, the reverse is true. Germany/Japan may have Egypt, Libya and Algeria but that’s only 4 IPC while England has the rest +7 IPC.
Just the way I see it, though.
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