Japaneese IC



  • I was just curious to see where people generally placed their IC given the choice.  I know it can depend on what the allies have done but I want to hear what people think.



  • @Bonesaw:

    I was just curious to see where people generally placed their IC given the choice.  I know it can depend on what the allies have done but I want to hear what people think.

    Kwangtung is not a bad first choice because it’s within tank range of India but cannot be taken on the British second turn, as it’s shielded by FI, and also because you end up with a fleet next to it after J1, since you need to kill the British destroyer that killed your lone transport.

    For subsequent ICs, India is good because it is close to the front.  I have even built one on Sinkiang before, because it is one tank turn away from Moscow, which makes up for its smaller capacity of 2.



  • I am of the mindset that building an IC before maxing out Japan’s production capacity is a waste of IPCs. Yes you can produce directly on the mainland, but the transports are more versatile. Generally I wait to build an IC on India or Sinking.



  • @syntaxerror111:

    I am of the mindset that building an IC before maxing out Japan’s production capacity is a waste of IPCs. Yes you can produce directly on the mainland, but the transports are more versatile. Generally I wait to build an IC on India or Sinking.

    Assuming Japan is left completely unmolested to expand at will, that’s true.  But if you are pressured by the British and American fleets, you may find that (1) you cannot leave any ships next to Japan, as you are forced to fight elsewhere, so you are unable to protect any newly built transports, (2) you are unable to drop off troops as you would like, because of naval battle commitments, and (3) transports just generally tend to die a lot.

    So it becomes important to be able to build on the mainland regardless of what your navy is doing, because a good Allied player will pressure you from land while pressuring your navy, and without an IC, you can quickly find yourself barely hanging on to the continent.



  • I would do a mix of trasports and an IC but not first turn. One or two transports bought in J1 and an IC in J3 in India. Manchuria can use transports form the mailand and get by pretty well. 4 units a turn but in the south you really just cant supply that theater well without an IC and it would have to be India.



  • I chose 2 ICs (FIC and India) because most of my games go KFG and I also have 6 transports operating. The thing about the IC/TRN mix is that it allows you to be more flexible taking Africa or serving as fodder if you move the Japanese fleet into the Med.

    Against KFJ strategies it really depends on how bad things are going for Japan. 1 IC, either on Manchuria or FIC is nice but the moment the Allies take it will be easier to kick Japan out of Asia and to use it against Japan.



  • @Hobbes:

    I chose 2 ICs (FIC and India) because most of my games go KFG and I also have 6 transports operating. The thing about the IC/TRN mix is that it allows you to be more flexible taking Africa or serving as fodder if you move the Japanese fleet into the Med.

    Against KFJ strategies it really depends on how bad things are going for Japan. 1 IC, either on Manchuria or FIC is nice but the moment the Allies take it will be easier to kick Japan out of Asia and to use it against Japan.

    That’s why in those situations, Kwangtung is optimal, as it is the furthest from Allied territories.



  • And kwa protects one VC. Very important in KJF games where germans trade Paris 😉



  • @eatenbyagrue:

    @Hobbes:

    That’s why in those situations, Kwangtung is optimal, as it is the furthest from Allied territories.

    Harder to defend/block amphibious assaults by the US fleet. Ideally in KFJ situations Japan needs to prevent the islands from falling (12 IPCs) and to take out any US fleets. The best place for an IC is still Indochina because you’ll want to stop any land incursions as far away for your territories as possible and still are able to contest India and stop any advances through China. Also, J can build naval units there that will reach as far as Australia and New Guinea. Kwangtung limits your options in both accounts and if Kwangtung falls to the allies then allied ships only need 1 move to pick units build there.
    Building and IC on Manchuria is probably even worse than Kwangtung for all those reasons but I remember that there was a unique situation were it was better (can’t remember the particulars though). In any case there’s little worry that the Russians are going to pour into Manchuria from Buryatia: the Japanese fleet can stamp any units moving to Buryatia while it lasts and coming from China offers more targets for the Russian units (Manchuria, Kwangtung, FIC).


  • '16 '15 '10

    My first IC typically goes on FIC, but in KGF games not until J3 or J4.  In some cases I might build the IC J1 if I feel like I can’t protect new transports.

    India is preferable and my 2nd IC will hopefully go there but caution is warranted–a strong Russian move to take and India IC can be a game winner for the Allies.  So for that reason I usually place on Fic first.



  • @Zhukov44:

    a strong Russian move to take and India IC can be a game winner for the Allies.  So for that reason I usually place on Fic first.

    This is very true but a J3 India complex is vital.
    You can get up to 7 units to india in J2 but six is more resonalbe along with 4-5 fighters. There will be some units left over and taking boots off the German front is just what the doctor ordered for germany! by trun 4 the I-ties should also be in good position in the med if the took Gid Egypt and Trans and anre running amuck in the south.
    This IC in india is a must for the russian and if well reinforced the japansse can divert huge amounts or russian forces from germany.



  • It seems to be a popular view that Japan is wasting its money if it buys a complex before it has maxed out the first one (i.e. is transporting 8 units/turn to the mainland).  However, I am of the opinion that 2 tran 1 IC–this is assuming $1 bid to Japan–is the optimal J1 purchase for getting units to the mainland quickly.  There was an old thread (sorry, I couldn’t find the link on my first search and I’m too lazy to look harder) that had some calculations to this effect, but for the short version, consider:
    —If you build 3 tran on J1, you can put 8 units in Asia on your second turn.  However, with 2 tran 1 IC you can get 9 units there: 6 from your three transports, and three more from your complex.  With a 2 IC purchase it’s down to 8 again, one from your transport and 6 from your complexes.  (I’m assuming throughout that the UK killed your transport in SZ 59 so that you only have one to start with.)  So if you’re trying to get as many units to Asia on J2 as you can, 2 tran 1 IC is the way to go. 
    —4 tran on J1, using a bid of $2, is also a good way to start fast.  However, in this case your capacity outstrips your income; it will be a couple rounds before you can actually get new units fast enough to keep your transports busy.  The 2 tran 1 IC buy is better optimized at keeping your production/transport capacity matched up with the number of units you can afford to produce.  In particular, a 4 tran J1 purchase enables you to put as many as 10 units into Asia on J2 if you clean out Philippines, East Indies, Okinawa, and Wake, but then you run out of island units and can only make up to 8 new ones in Japan.  So you get a lot of inf on J2 but it’s more of an anomaly, where the 2 tran 1 IC buy gives you a smoother and more continuous startup.
    —As far as location, I like FIC the best.  Kwang is farther from Moscow than either Fic or Man, so if you’re trying to put pressure on the Russians quickly you want either Fic or Man.  You can supply plenty of troops to the northern area from Japan itself, so the complex is needed more on the southern end.  Plus it enables you to get to Africa, Caucasus, etc better.
    —So far I’ve been assuming KGF.  In KJF you should certainly be a bit more hesitant about getting factories up quickly.  However, I’ve found that a FIC complex, which is always where I build on J1 if I build a factory at all, can be very helpful in KJF.  Ideally when defending against an American fleet you want to defend as far out as possible, e.g. with a fleet in the Caroline or even Solomon islands.  However, if you’re forced to fall back, FIC is a great fallback point.  The key thing about it is that it borders all three of your valuable islands.  If you get in trouble you can fall back to SZ 36 and build more ships there to join your retreating fleet.  Often this will be enough to prevent the Americans from taking any of those expensive islands right away.  If your only factory is in Japan you’re forced to keep your navy farther north to incorporate the new builds, and the Americans have an easier time getting to the southern islands.


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