• @ncscswitch:

    There is another way to defend that IC other than “massive” USSR assistance.  Perhaps I will show you sometime in a game where I play the allies :-P

    My strategy involves shaved monkeys

    Because NOBODY can ignore a shaved monkey.


  • @ncscswitch:

    The best defense is a good offense…

    From there I will let you folks figure it out.

    I bet he’s talking about the India/Ssinkiang/US Pacific offense.

    OR . . .

    SHAVED MONKEYS

    Frood, your post never put in any mention of time frame.  That’s a very important omission.

    If you leave a little stack in Novosibirsk/Kazakh, when you attack into Yakut/Ssinkiang, the even bigger block of infantry stomps on your force without fear of retribution.  IF it’s some time after turn 5, that is.

    If you leave a little stack in Novosibirsk/Kazakh, when you attack into Yakut/Ssinkiang, you can probably wipe out some Japs with little fear of return losses.  IF it’s turn 2-3, that is.

    Gambling with Allied ICs is very dangerous.  Once Japan secures an additional mainland IC close to the action, there is a lot more pressure on the Allies.  If you are going to go for India/Ssinkiang ICs, Russia MUST assist with defense.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    2 Infantry in Sinkiang, 1 Industrial Complex.

    Japan has 5 Infantry in China + half a dozen fighters and a bomber.

    Please, tell us how you defend Sinkiang without Russian reinforcements?  And how do you keep it if Japan keeps stacking up next to it without at least matching 50% of Japan’s stacks with Russian units.

    BTW, you only have 5 rounds.  Because most games result in Russia needing to fight off the Germans by then at the very least.

  • 2007 AAR League

    NPB, I’m talking turns 2-4. Beyond that I don’t like to discuss general strategy because so much can change by then it becomes meaningless.

    Even if the Sinkiang IC CAN be defended, the fact is that you are then forced to defend it. Your hands are then somewhat tied strategically, and your opponent can exploit that.


  • I never said w/o Russian reinforcements, i said without MASSIVE Russian reinforcements.

    And for anyone to see what I have in mind, check out the Games area… Nix pulled it on me about a year or so ago, and it wreaked havoc with my Japan moves until around J11 or so when I FINALLY took the USA IC in Sinkiang…

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Ah, okay.  So the boggle is what you consider massive reinforcements for Russia and what I consider Massive reinforcements from Russia.

    If on Turn 1 you put more then 2 infantry in Sinkiang with Russia, that is massive
    If on Turn 2 you have more then 9 IPC of units in Sinkiang as Russia, that is massive
    If on Turn 3 you have more then 32 IPC of units in Sinkiang if two are fighters, or 18 IPC in units in Sinkiang, that is massive.

    Etc.

    IMHO, if Russia has to dedicate more then 24 IPC (not including Fighters) to the defense of Sinkiang in any round before Round 7 you have too many reinforcements in Sinkiang for an IC that only produces two units a round and you are weakening yourself against Germany, who is probably pistol whipping England and calling her a bad girl while England says “thank you, may I have another?”


  • Then Turn 1 is “massive” in my scenario, turn 2 is marginal, but form Turn 3 forward, hell and gone from massive.


  • When I play Russia usually I withdraw my infantry to Novosibirsk. Then from R3 on I start to reinforce there with 1 infantry at turn. Depending on the German results on the West, and from the reinforcement brought by UK/USA, my strategy is to counterattack the Japanese advance in order to gain time, the problem is that only infantry do not achieve nothing.
    Usually I buy a tank or an artillery piece a turn to be used againist Germany with the hope to free the FIG for counterattacking Japanese.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    I used to go 4 Infantry to Sinkiang on R1.  Then I realized that 4 infantry on the german front is HUGE!  Sinkiang is worth 2 IPC to Japan.  Ukraine is worth 3 IPC to Russia.  Which is more valuable to Russia?

  • 2007 AAR League

    @Jennifer:

    I used to go 4 Infantry to Sinkiang on R1.  Then I realized that 4 infantry on the german front is HUGE!  Sinkiang is worth 2 IPC to Japan.  Ukraine is worth 3 IPC to Russia.  Which is more valuable to Russia?

    Both.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    It’s an either or question, Dan.  You can either reinforce Sinkiang massively on Russia 1, or you can hold Ukraine on Russia 2.

  • 2007 AAR League

    I was being cheeky. My point is hold both if you can, for as long as possible. I think its v. important to slow Japan down as much as possible. The US and UK can help with Germany, but only Russia can really keep Japan at bay. Germany can’t hold Ukraine early on without getting into a war of attrition with Russia, which will leave it underpowered

    But your Eastern Inf can’t be in Ukraine (except the 2 in Kazakh until R3, R4 at the earliest) anyway. So hold Yakut / SFE / Novo / Kaz etc. a few turns longer and you can build extra Inf much closer to the German front.


  • It’s an either or question, Dan.  You can either reinforce Sinkiang massively on Russia 1, or you can hold Ukraine on Russia 2.

    I would be scared to try to hold Ukraine on R2. Germany could strafe you down a lot! I guess it depends on your first moves. Is the standard still W Russia + Belorussia, or is it Ukraine/W. Russia?

  • 2007 AAR League

    @trihero:

    It’s an either or question, Dan.  You can either reinforce Sinkiang massively on Russia 1, or you can hold Ukraine on Russia 2.

    I would be scared to try to hold Ukraine on R2. Germany could strafe you down a lot! I guess it depends on your first moves. Is the standard still W Russia + Belorussia, or is it Ukraine/W. Russia?

    There’s some controversy there. IMHO Ukraine is not worth it, but WRus + Belo is pretty solid because taking out the Belo units, rather than spreading you out, actually makes your WRus position more secure because you remove most of Germany’s fodder for the counterattack on WRus.

    You can take out Ukraine to kill a fighter, but it likely means sacrificing a few tanks, which are more important to Russia than the Fighter is to Germany. That’s my view anyway. Some players talk about “strafing” ukraine on R1 which I think is silly because then you are taking fire from a Fighter that you are actually not even hoping to kill.

    Ukraine is a “trading” territory for the first couple of turns. It takes a while for either Russia or Germany to be able to move in with enough hardware to deter the counterattack.


  • Should have a vote for this:

    WRU+Ukr, WRU, WRU+Belo, or something else?

    For me it’s always WRU + Ukr.


  • There was already a thread with a voting about possible first turn Russian attack in past threads.
    Attacking Ukraine and holding is costly for Russian but allow to cash higher and force German to commit force there.
    Moreover it is good in the following turns trading for Ukraine.

    Strafing Ukraine is not silly. Strafing as always been aimed to kill infantry not tank nor fighter.
    Attacking Ukraine with 3 inf, 1 art, 3 tank and 2 fig allows for 21 die points. German defends with 15 die points. It is a perfect strafing scenario. Russia on average will inflict 3,5 hits and Germany will inflict 2,5. The strafing helps in securing West Russia because Germany have only 3 inf from Belorussia to cover the attack there. What is not gained from the strafing are the IPC from Ukraine.

    Attacking to conquer Ukraine is better then conquering Belorussia, IMHO. You destroy 1 more tank and 1 more fig and take 3 more IPC.
    The cost is the loss of 3 tank in the following counterattack.
    After West Russia and Ukraine Russia has 29 IPC = 1 Tank + 8 INF, starting to rebuild the tank force.

    Siberian Units are better employed in Novosibirsk. As Frood said on R2 only 2 inf may reach Ukraine and 4 may on R3. It is better to leave them in Siberia, stacking them for containing Japanese and trying to cashing high against Germany and then buying infantry directly on the German front.


  • Game play has shown to me that going with only 2 tanks in ukraine R1 is a good move.
    1 less lost tank, more hits in WRU.

    You will take ukraine less, but you still kill the german ftr.


  • Axis_roll, I agree if you want to take Ukraine, it is better to go with only two tanks, and use the other two in West Russia.
    However if you want to strafe Ukraine, and there are pros and cons for that, you should use three tanks.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    I was a BIG W. Russia/Ukraine girl for a long time.

    I was also a BIG 3 infantry, 3 armor purchase girl for a long time.

    Now I am more a Belorussia, W. Russia girl (since you can shield more property that way, and preserve your armor for a rainy day, and it WILL rain!) and a 3 Infantry, Armor, Fighter girl.

    Whoa, why a fighter?

    What Russian player can afford to send her armor into hostile territory to hold it?
    What Russian player can’t use a 3rd fighter?

    I’m actually toying with the idea of a round 2 of 4 Infantry, Artillery, Fighter (26 IPC) so Russia has 4 Fighters.  That’s enough to sink the Med fleet if need be, but it’s also enough to cover your infantry on both fronts until England and America can come.

    My only worry is not having enough punch to stop the Germans.  Might they get too aggressive in an effort to take Russia before America and England can help?  Can America and England get there in time to make up for the 20 IPC in infantry missing in Russia now?


  • 3 Infantry, Armor, Fighter girl.

    I’m 4 inf 3 art dude  8-)

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