Two Questions



  • I have a couple questions I could use some clarification on.

    1.  When conducting a naval battle, after combat has started, can you choose to not include a unit that has not fired yet?  Let me explain… As Japan, I want to attack the US navy one round and retreat.  Therefore I don’t want to eliminate his navy in the first round of battle (hopefully I’ll leave only one unit).  So if I begin rolling the dice and I hit more times than I want, can I not fire the remaining units?

    2.  As Russia, what is the best way to attack W.Russian and Ukraine on R1?  What units and how many units should be taken to each territory; should you always press the attack on Ukraine, or retreat, etc, etc.

    Thanks for your help - CJ



  • @captainjack:

    I have a couple questions I could use some clarification on.

    1.  When conducting a naval battle, after combat has started, can you choose to not include a unit that has not fired yet?  Let me explain… As Japan, I want to attack the US navy one round and retreat.  Therefore I don’t want to eliminate his navy in the first round of battle (hopefully I’ll leave only one unit).  So if I begin rolling the dice and I hit more times than I want, can I not fire the remaining units?  No, you have to shoot all ur gunz.  pewpew

    2.  As Russia, what is the best way to attack W.Russian and Ukraine on R1?  What units and how many units should be taken to each territory; should you always press the attack on Ukraine, or retreat, etc, etc.  You either send EVERYTHING to Ukraine that you can send, or you hold back a tank.  If you’re hosing the crap out of the Germans, keep it going, if you’re getting hosED, run.  If you get hosed in the Ukr attack, it’s pretty d*** bad for those Russians (you can increase your odds by sending the third tank, but that means you’ll probably lose the tank on G1), if you hose the Germans, it’s pretty bad for Germany, especially if you didn’t commit that third tank.

    Thanks for your help - CJ

    Praise teh lawd, from whom all blessings flow.

    Oh yeah, forgot to mention.  R1 Ukr-West Russia can open the door for German Tank Dash to Moscow.  So watchout.



  • Bunnies - If I send everything to Ukraine (except for maybe a tank) does that leave me enough strength to attack WRussia successfully?  Also, how does that open the door for German tanks to push through to Moscow?  Thanks!



  • @captainjack:

    Bunnies - If I send everything to Ukraine (except for maybe a tank) does that leave me enough strength to attack WRussia successfully?  Also, how does that open the door for German tanks to push through to Moscow?  Thanks!

    Following are my ASSUMPTIONS about what a normal game looks like.  Take with grain of salt.  or beer!  beeeeer

    1.  If planning Ukraine/West Russia, note where Germany places its bid units.  If Germany places unit(s) in Ukraine, you may choose to do something else on R1 (like WRus/Belorussia, or WRus only which by the way I don’t advocate even if Darth Maximus does like it, note that I consider Darth Maximus’s stuff to generally be worth reading), or continue to do Ukr/West Russia with three tanks.

    2.  If planning Ukraine/West Russia, probable first turn build should be 2 inf 2 art (place Caucasus), 2 tank (Moscow), or 5 inf 1 art 1 tank (place 3 inf 1 art Caucasus, 2 inf 1 tank Moscow)

    1A.  Ukraine 3 tanks / West Russia remainder of forces:  High probability capture Ukraine.  Low probability of taking game-significant numbers of casualties at West Russia.  (The R1 attack on W. Russia is a multiround combat, the absence of a tank decreases Russia’s hitting power, so the Germans survive longer.  This still usually results in acceptable losses for Russia if “regular” dice come up.  If “bad” dice come up, though, the Russians can lose enough infantry to change the game conditions.)

    1B.  Ukraine 2 tanks / West Russia remainder of forces:  Moderate probability capture or destroy Ukraine forces.  Very low probability of taking game-significant numbers of casualties at West Russia.  A fair number of times, you’ll see the Ukraine attack result in 2 Russian fighters surviving and one German fighter surviving, or some such thing.  Russian fighters are far too precious to drop for a lousy 3 IPC territory even if throwing a German fighter on top.

    The anticipated response under “normal” conditions is the usual game, except that the Germans have a slight to moderate initial ground unit disadvantage (lost German attack units at Ukraine), and the Germans have a slightly decreased air force initially allowing the Allies to build less defense in the Pacific.  If choosing to hit with 3 Russia tanks, loss of the  extra Russia tank is pretty significant for Russia in the mid-early game, though, and Russia has decreased hitting power when the Germans and Japs near Moscow.  I consider “normal” conditions acceptable for both sides (maybe a bit less so for the Russians).

    The anticipated response under “good” conditions is the usual game, except the Russians can have a very strong force in Ukraine, which makes the Germans far weaker on the initial turns.  On G1, the Germans have to attack the Russia tanks (Russia tanks are really good to kill), but since most of the German airforce is tied up with UK targets (Anglo-Egypt, Gibraltar), there isn’t much to spare, and any German tanks committed to Ukraine can be countered by Russia’s R2 Caucasus/West Russia attack into Ukraine.  This is pretty bad for Germany; Germany can recover, but it’s nasty and tough.

    The anticipated response under “bad” conditions (some combination of Russia won Ukraine with 1 tank 2 fighter surviving or less, and/or Russia taking lots of casualties at West Russia) - depending on Russia’s position, Germany may choose any of to hit Ukraine and/or Karelia, use the German Med fleet to try to grab Caucasus early (planning G2 retake followed by J2 fighter reinforcement), use German air against Russian targets (REALLY aggressive), build all tanks on G1.  This is pretty bad for Russia.

    My assessment of 3 tanks to Ukraine on R1 is that it CAN be good, especially with good dice, but bad dice can really mess with you, and moderate dice don’t result in a “good” outcome for Russia either (IMHO).  2 tanks to Ukraine on R1 can also be good, but there’s a bigger chance of failing to take Ukraine / kill the German fighter, and if that’s the case, you’d have done better to do West Russia/Belorussia (depletes German forward infantry so Germany can’t do nearly as much on G1, snags a 2 IPC territory, decent odds, little risk)

    2.  How does it open the door for German tanks?  Russian bad dice means a potentially REALLY nasty G1.  Usually G1 just does some light trading, but if the German Med fleet comes in, the German air comes in, AND the Russians had bad dice meaning fewer units, AND Germany built mass tanks to try to storm Moscow before the Allies can reinforce?  Germany can let Africa and the Atlantic go to pot; if Germany can put up even a minimal resistance at Berlin against Allied invasion, and Germany storms Moscow (with Japanese help), the game’s over.  Once the Axis grab Moscow, the German tanks reverse to the west, Germany and Japan get a grip on the Pacific and Africa, and the Axis just start messing with the Allies.

    Usually if the Germans build all tanks, Russia just infantrys up, but with an aggressive failed R1, the Russians have a lot less units in Europe to fight with.



  • Thanks Bunnies!  I appreciate your info - great post!



  • @Bunnies:

    @captainjack:

    I have a couple questions I could use some clarification on.

    1.  When conducting a naval battle, after combat has started, can you choose to not include a unit that has not fired yet?  Let me explain… As Japan, I want to attack the US navy one round and retreat.  Therefore I don’t want to eliminate his navy in the first round of battle (hopefully I’ll leave only one unit).  So if I begin rolling the dice and I hit more times than I want, can I not fire the remaining units?  No, you have to shoot all ur gunz.  pewpew  what I wanted to try was on J1 attacking Hawaii with an AC, 2 Figs (one from Japan, the other from the AC), a DD and my sub (if it survived).  Fight one round and retreat to SZ57 with at least my AC and 2 Figs (hopfully my DD also).  Everytime I attack Hawaii - heavy or lite, I get lambasted on US1 and lose most if not all my units.  I was thinking about trying this new strategy to avoid this.  Any thoughts?

    2.  As Russia, what is the best way to attack W.Russian and Ukraine on R1?  What units and how many units should be taken to each territory; should you always press the attack on Ukraine, or retreat, etc, etc.  You either send EVERYTHING to Ukraine that you can send, or you hold back a tank.  If you’re hosing the crap out of the Germans, keep it going, if you’re getting hosED, run.  If you get hosed in the Ukr attack, it’s pretty d*** bad for those Russians (you can increase your odds by sending the third tank, but that means you’ll probably lose the tank on G1), if you hose the Germans, it’s pretty bad for Germany, especially if you didn’t commit that third tank.

    Thanks for your help - CJ

    Praise teh lawd, from whom all blessings flow.

    Oh yeah, forgot to mention.  R1 Ukr-West Russia can open the door for German Tank Dash to Moscow.  So watchout.



  • Hey bunnies,
    that’s what i been trying to implement in a tank strat all along as an answer to R1 Ukraine for all reasons you mention. But ain’t it a bit risky for germans to go directly to moscow?

    Going all tanks on round 1 pretty much means the end of baltic fleet, pretty much forced to send it on western europe coast. I usually start having troubles with UK from round 2 if i try to send in a second tank wave and don’t prepare a infantry-plane counter to western landing. That’s why i try to aim on caucasus in one wave instead of moscow since i can bring extra infantry via mediterean transport there.

    However i been toying lately with going extra sub for the bid. Sinking that UK atlantic fleet might just get the extra round i need to send that 2nd wave but this forces an Anglo-Egypt attack on round 2, taking trans jordan rnd 1.

    Maybe sub bid, buying an AC round 1 + tanks, round 2 full tanks?



  • what I wanted to try was on J1 attacking Hawaii with an AC, 2 Figs (one from Japan, the other from the AC), a DD and my sub (if it survived).  Fight one round and retreat to SZ57 with at least my AC and 2 Figs (hopfully my DD also).  Everytime I attack Hawaii - heavy or lite, I get lambasted on US1 and lose most if not all my units.  I was thinking about trying this new strategy to avoid this.  Any thoughts?

    2 strats work well at Hawaii.

    1.  Pearl Light.  Sub (if survived), destroyer, 4 fighters, 1 bomber.  Take casualties on sub, destroyer, possible fighter or two.  Japan puts two carriers and battleship at Solomons during noncombat and lands Pearl fighters on carriers.  The US will probably not try to hit the Solomons sea zone unless they go for long range aircraft (yay), or they’re retarded (also yay).  If the battle goes REALLY poorly for Japan, you can always just not move your navy towards Solomons.  Meanwhile, the other Jap battleship stays east of Japan escorting the transport against UK2’s possible naval/air attack.

    UK can mess with this move by moving their UK transport (usually) north from Australia.  (Usually UK blocks with a transport while seding the sub to attack the Jap Solomon sub).  Now Japan either has to attack the UK transport with a battleship, leaving two lone carriers with probable light to medium fighters at Solomons (the US can think about attacking then).  Or Japan has to use a fighter to clear the transport (it’s risky; Japan can lose, and Japan doesn’t really have the air to spare).

    Sometimes you see the UK sending the India fighter plus Solomon sub to try to hit the Jap sub at Solomons; the UK fighter lands on the Hawaii carrier.

    2.  Pearl Heavy.  You send everything in reach.  This has good and bad points, of course, like anything else.  The bad thing is that Japan’s forces in Asia suck at the beginning, so losing that transport east of Japan hurts (Russia could grab Manchuria).  Also, the dice could hose the Japs, then the Allies could really mess with Japan’s navy (pretty improbable, but possible).  You might lose Manchuria to Burytia, and you probably won’t have an escort fleet for your Jap transport build (you can get around this).  The good thing is that Japan usually takes a while to build up in Asia anyways.


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