Help stop Nazis from closing the Atlantic



  • Hi All

    New member here, but I have played A&A for years, and love the revised game…anyway on to my issue.

    One of my friends and regular opponents has come up with a Germany Strategy that no one has yet to sucessfuly counter.  It goes as follows

    R1 buy: INF and maybe one armor
    R1: take WRUSSIA

    G1 buy: Carrier, plane (optional) and the rest INF and/or armor
    G1 attack:  UK BB sunk off Gibralter with BB and sub and TRANS, BUT GIB taken with INF, closing the MED.  UK destoryer sunk of Egypt.  Europe: Karalia taken
    G1 placement: Carrier in N Europe fleet (note house rule allows players to lay unused plane (that round) and new plane on carrier, now at full strgenth)

    G2 move: consolidate fleet of coast of W Europe : Germany now has: BB, Carrier, 2 planes, 3 subs, DEST, and TRANS in striking distance of UK, Norway, Brazil and Africa

    With this defense in place Germany then begins in push on Russia in earnest in G3, with the navy guarding the back door and/or taking Africa and/or Brazil.  By the time UK and USA get enough forces in place to deal with the G Fleet, Russia is usually in serious trouble.

    By G3 germany is moving on USSR fast with tanks and minimum inf

    If UK buys India factory and does not match Atlantic buy they fall behind and can not even threaten Norway.  If USA matches then Japan can run wild

    I have experminted with NOT buying India factory and using USSR to reinforce India.  With the UK building Atlantic fleet, and stacking USSR but without help we all know they can not hold.

    Any suggestions/ideas would be appreciated, normaly we all are VERY even players but he has come up with a strategy that we can not crack yet

    Long live A&A, and thanks for your time


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Combine the Allied fleets in SZ 8 or SZ 12.  This should give you, with no purchases, at least 1 Battleship, 1 Destroyer, 1 Submarine, 4 Transports in SZ 12.

    If you buy equipment and decide to unit in SZ 8 instead, you can have 1 Battleship, 1 Destroyer, 1 Carrier, 2 Fighters, 2 Submarines and 4 Transports between the US, USSR and UK. (With UK purchasing the Carrier and Submarine along with, say, 2 infantry on UK 1 and Russia’s submarine moved in.)

    This fleet should be big enough to stop the Germans from taking ownership of the Atlantic.

    Other tactics are to either go insanely aggressive with Russia stomping the Germans and trading Balkans/E. Europe with Russia or go ultra conservative with Russia forcing Germany to slow down else risk losing their tanks and artillery to Russian counter strikes.

    (And yes, I’ve proven that Russia CAN hit Germany so hard that they ARE held in Berlin/S. Europe and Russia has Norway, W. Russia, Belorussia and Ukraine on a consistent basis.  Not easy, but very doable and without huge massive risks being taken, just be ware that Germany will eventually be able to push Russia back because Japan’s coming up the other side, so get the English and Americans ready.)

    I stand by my original arguments in other threads that England should be liberating Karelia each round, not Russia, and that America should worry about Africa, not England.



  • Consolidate Allied navy northeast of E. Canada or some such place that’s out of German air range but within German navy range, and buy air.

    If Germany attacks the Allied navy, they take hits on the attack and the Allied air finishes them.

    If Germany doesn’t attack the Allied navy, the Allied air force flies into range, then next turn Allied navy plus Allied air creams the German fleet.

    Usually Germany has to commit to Baltic or Mediterranean.  If Germany chooses to retreat to Baltic, you can still play keep-away and win.  (after German turn, if German fighters in Norway, capture from E. Canada, if German fighters not in Norway move Allied fleet up to northwest of London and fighters to London to smash German fleet next turn),

    Use excess fighters to bolster Russia’s infantry defense.

    Also, I generally do W. Russia/Ukraine or W. Russia/Belorussia.  Note that DarthMaximus says he prefers W. Russia, last I knew anyways.


  • 2019 Moderator

    Going out on a limb here, but is CaptianJack your buddy?

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=11875.0



  • @pequod:

    G1 attack:  UK BB sunk off Gibralter with BB and sub and TRANS, BUT GIB taken with INF, closing the MED.  UK destoryer sunk of Egypt.  Europe: Karalia taken

    I’ve read in lots of other posts about Germany taking Gibralter.  Why?  What’s the advantage??



  • @dezrtfish:

    Going out on a limb here, but is CaptianJack your buddy?

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=11875.0

    That’s funny!  I was wondering the same thing after I read his post!!!  :lol: :lol: :lol:
    But no, actually.



  • @captainjack:

    @pequod:

    G1 attack:  UK BB sunk off Gibralter with BB and sub and TRANS, BUT GIB taken with INF, closing the MED.  UK destoryer sunk of Egypt.  Europe: Karalia taken

    I’ve read in lots of other posts about Germany taking Gibralter.  Why?  What’s the advantage??

    This stops 2 UK ftrs from being able to attack SZ13 on UK1



  • @dezrtfish:

    Going out on a limb here, but is CaptianJack your buddy?

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=11875.0

    On a roll today dezrtfish… this one and the Holiday Inn Express lawyer post

    +1 Karma to you!



  • @dezrtfish:

    Going out on a limb here, but is CaptianJack your buddy?

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=11875.0

    Captain Jack, whozzat?

    Captain Morgan, now . . . . there’s a fine fellow . . .



  • Can someone please stop this Billy Joel song that is playing in my head??



  • thanks for the ideas guys, have tried the consoldation thing, got a few new twists and will see how they work out

    CaptJack is right, with GIB in German hands, UK fighters can not get at the BB.  It also presents many other problems for the allies in the later rounds, a sweet move, the only downside is that G can not attach Egypt in G1, but that move is so perdictable there are many counters for it



  • Attack to Egypt is useful to kill a UK fighter and a UK tank and also to avoid Britidh DD exit to Indian ocean or British fleet enter in Med. This are the thing to consider, IMHO.



  • @pequod:

    thanks for the ideas guys, have tried the consoldation thing, got a few new twists and will see how they work out

    CaptJack is right, with GIB in German hands, UK fighters can not get at the BB.  It also presents many other problems for the allies in the later rounds, a sweet move, the only downside is that G can not attach Egypt in G1, but that move is so perdictable there are many counters for it

    Sometimes, there are actually good reasons why a move becomes predictable. Not attacking egypt has many more problems for you, This costs you much income in the game, as well as posing some imediate threats from UK fighter, dd, and indian fleet. Go ahead, be brave, be predictable!!


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    And sometimes avoiding Egypt can work to your advantage too.  For one, if the English invade the med, they could get stuck and crushed and thus allow Japan more freedom.  Or not hitting Ukraine could conserve vital forces for Russia allowing them to be more bold later.  Or Japan not hitting Pearl could allow them the resources needed to hit India, China and Buryatia throwing the allies into a premature tail-spin or suckering an inexperienced America into attempting a KJF giving Germany a break.

    Just playing devil’s advocate.



  • @Cmdr:

    And sometimes avoiding Egypt can work to your advantage too.  For one, if the English invade the med, they could get stuck and crushed and thus allow Japan more freedom.  Or not hitting Ukraine could conserve vital forces for Russia allowing them to be more bold later.  Or Japan not hitting Pearl could allow them the resources needed to hit India, China and Buryatia throwing the allies into a premature tail-spin or suckering an inexperienced America into attempting a KJF giving Germany a break.

    Just playing devil’s advocate.

    You like to play devils advocate quite often. I think Egypt is a bigger thing than pearl and ukraine. I see both sides to Ukraine, and I certainly know you dont like to hit it. I guess this means you dont hit Egypt as Germany. Or you do, and like you said, helping out the devil.



  • @pequod:

    thanks for the ideas guys, have tried the consoldation thing, got a few new twists and will see how they work out

    CaptJack is right, with GIB in German hands, UK fighters can not get at the BB.  It also presents many other problems for the allies in the later rounds, a sweet move, the only downside is that G can not attach Egypt in G1, but that move is so perdictable there are many counters for it

    There are always ways to mess with the Germans, Baltic/Med fleet unification or no.

    Missing Anglo-Egypt on G1, though, is a bad, bad move for Germany.  There are really two important battles on G1 that Germany almost has to do; those are the UK battleship at Gibraltar and Anglo-Egypt (the destroyer can be ignored if Gibraltar and Anglo-Egypt are both captured).  If you leave Anglo-Egypt alone, you’re asking for a world of hurt in Africa AND India.

    Pretty much the only times that Germany shouldn’t do those Gibraltar and Anglo-Egypt is if the Allies left a major opening, like Germany bidding a Baltic transport and Russia not flying in fighters allowing an OOB/FAQ G1 Long Range Aircraft/invasion of London, or Russia getting awful dice or trying to concentrate its infantry in Archangel/Karelia on R1, allowing Germany to somehow capture Caucasus on G1 (and hold it until G2).  Stuff that will kill the Allies right away.

    They callz me ishmael



  • I just had my first successful fleet unification as Germany…  G4 I linked up 3 TRN, 1 SUB, 1 DST, 2 AC, 4 FIG, 1 BB in SZ12.  The Allies are cowering in SZ2, and I have a lone U-Boat in SZ8.  1 TRN has already offloaded in Brazil…

    USA has a massive fleet off California, but still not strong enough to venture away from the coast to harass Japan…



  • @ncscswitch:

    I just had my first successful fleet unification as Germany…  G4 I linked up 3 TRN, 1 SUB, 1 DST, 2 AC, 4 FIG, 1 BB in SZ12.  The Allies are cowering in SZ2, and I have a lone U-Boat in SZ8.  1 TRN has already offloaded in Brazil…

    USA has a massive fleet off California, but still not strong enough to venture away from the coast to harass Japan…

    hahaha kjf ,that nub.  sounds like allies not care about africa at all.  weird.  probably ncs gonna hose that pore fool.  (jinxes dice) or not.

    I lol’d



  • Hi all,

    quick update, got in two games this weekend against the hated foe….and went 0 for 2, ugggh.  Foe went with same basic strgy.  One time I was playing USSR and allies were not ready for it and I could not get them to grasp the sit before it was too late.  Second time had some success playing USA.  US1 moved Trans/DEST w/troope from E-USA to Brazil and from there to W Africa.  Had to split my buys of all navies between coasts.  It slowed me down but still killed JAPAN and took southern islands.  GER attacked and sunk Atlantic fleet (I rolled horribly on defense) and did not weaken him enough for UK to take him out.  Lost the games but made headway on winning strategy.  It invloves heavy UK navy and air purchase, combined with USA devoting some resources to Atlantic navy, but I need to link up w/UK fleet early around SZ8 and taking it from there

    BTW Brazil move was a pretty good move, got units in position to either invade Africa and/or protect Brazil, just have to work on the unit moving timing



  • @pequod:

    BTW Brazil move was a pretty good move, got units in position to either invade Africa and/or protect Brazil, just have to work on the unit moving timing

    US 1 can build an IC in brazil and support an Africa campaign that way.  Some will say Brazil IC is a waste.  However if Germany invests in Med fleet, Brazil complex can be a good safe counter.



  • @axis_roll:

    US 1 can build an IC in brazil and support an Africa campaign that way.  Some will say Brazil IC is a waste.  However if Germany invests in Med fleet, Brazil complex can be a good safe counter.

    Amon has used a Brazil IC effectively against me in recent games



  • @pequod:

    Hi all,

    quick update, got in two games this weekend against the hated foe….

    Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.

    and went 0 for 2, ugggh.  Foe went with same basic strgy.

    Always in motion is the future.  Hmm?

    One time I was playing USSR and allies were not ready for it and I could not get them to grasp the sit before it was too late.

    R2-D2, you know better than to trust a strange computer.

    Second time had some success playing USA.  US1 moved Trans/DEST w/troope from E-USA to Brazil and from there to W Africa.  Had to split my buys of all navies between coasts.

    You just watch yourself. We’re wanted men. I have the death sentence on twelve systems.

    It slowed me down but still killed JAPAN and took southern islands.

    Death is a natural part of life. Rejoice for those around you who transform into the Force.

    GER attacked and sunk Atlantic fleet (I rolled horribly on defense) and did not weaken him enough for UK to take him out.  Lost the games but made headway on winning strategy.  It invloves heavy UK navy and air purchase, combined with USA devoting some resources to Atlantic navy, but I need to link up w/UK fleet early around SZ8 and taking it from there

    Only a Sith Lord deals in absolutes.

    BTW Brazil move was a pretty good move, got units in position to either invade Africa and/or protect Brazil, just have to work on the unit moving timing

    The fear of loss is a path to the Dark Side.

    Judge me by my SIZE, do you?



  • [US1]
    Bra IC = 15 ipc
    –-
    EUS 2trn/inf/arm = 32 ipc

    [US2]
    Bra 1trn/inf/arm = 16 ipc
    –-
    EUS 1inf/arm = 8 ipc
    EUS > Bra 2trn/inf/arm

    [US3]
    Bra 1inf/arm = 8
    -If Brazil just wants to shuck over 1inf/arm to WAf/FEq/Con each turn, it can just build 1inf/arm each turn now. Setup took until US3, cost 31 IPCs, established a one-turn troop flow to Africa (units are built in Bra and shucked over – if you stop building them, you run out on the next turn).

    EUS 1inf/arm = 8
    Bra > WAf/FEq/Con 1inf/arm (same as Brazil option)
    EUS > Pan 1inf/arm
    sz18 > sz19 trn
    The EUS option has now also established a 1inf/arm shuck to western African territories, taking until US3, costing 40 IPCs, but establishing a three-turn flow to Africa. If the US stopped building units for Africa, 1inf/arm pairs would go away – Bra, then Pan, then the last EUS pair built.

    For 9 more IPCs you get 2inf/arm (16 IPCs), but it’s a larger upfront investment and bigger investment overall. It’s a close call. For consistent landings in SAf, I’d think the Brazil option is better, but I haven’t gamed it out. The Brazil option doesn’t require you to park a trn in sz18 after it drops Pan troops in Bra, thus being in range of a German bomber in WEu or fighters in Alg.



  • @Bunnies:

    @pequod:

    Hi all,

    quick update, got in two games this weekend against the hated foe….

    Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.

    and went 0 for 2, ugggh.  Foe went with same basic strgy.

    Always in motion is the future.  Hmm?

    One time I was playing USSR and allies were not ready for it and I could not get them to grasp the sit before it was too late.

    R2-D2, you know better than to trust a strange computer.

    Second time had some success playing USA.  US1 moved Trans/DEST w/troope from E-USA to Brazil and from there to W Africa.  Had to split my buys of all navies between coasts.

    You just watch yourself. We’re wanted men. I have the death sentence on twelve systems.

    It slowed me down but still killed JAPAN and took southern islands.

    Death is a natural part of life. Rejoice for those around you who transform into the Force.

    GER attacked and sunk Atlantic fleet (I rolled horribly on defense) and did not weaken him enough for UK to take him out.  Lost the games but made headway on winning strategy.  It invloves heavy UK navy and air purchase, combined with USA devoting some resources to Atlantic navy, but I need to link up w/UK fleet early around SZ8 and taking it from there

    Only a Sith Lord deals in absolutes.

    BTW Brazil move was a pretty good move, got units in position to either invade Africa and/or protect Brazil, just have to work on the unit moving timing

    The fear of loss is a path to the Dark Side.

    Judge me by my SIZE, do you?

    The defeat this weekend: “Good, let the hate flow through you”

    Thanks, i needed the laugh


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