Round 1:
England, America, Russia to SZ 12/Algeria
Round 2:
America to Algeria
England, America, Russia to SZ 6/Norway
Round 3:
America to England
England, America, Russia to SZ 4/Karelia/Archangelsk
By this point, your fleets from Indian Ocean and Pacific Ocean should be near Brazil and North Africa, a move away from England in any case.
Round 1:
England, America, Russia to SZ 12/Algeria
If you do, your fleet is finished. 1 bb + 2 tran + 3 subs + 1 dest + 5 fighters + 1 bomber, or some lesser combination thereof, to kill 4 tran 1 bb 1 dest 1 sub 1 car 2 fig.
Round 2:
America to Algeria
England, America, Russia to SZ 6/Norway
With what fleet? If you didn’t get Algeria on turn one, then you go there on the second turn, which is extremely likely considering the massive force waiting for you if you try to land on turn one. If you go there on the second turn, I’ll simply picket a sub in SZ7 to stop the UK from taking Norway on the third turn, since you didn’t bother to pay any attention to the German fleet. Sure you can move noncombat to SZ6, but you can’t land anything there with UK since that has to be a combat move.
There must be some detail that you’re not explaining that allows you the confidence of trying to land so soon. It simply seems like you feel you can expose so many transports. I’m not even sure what your build is. Any car/dest? Or neither of each? Mind you what Im’ doing is running the Baltic and linking it with the one sub from SZ8…you’ve said you dont’ like strafing with planes, and you changed your mind about trying to “counter” with a car/dest build, so now what?
SZ5 cannot reach SZ12 on G2, without advance German fleet movements, which would tip off the UK and USA that something was up, to which they would respond appropriately…
What would be the appropriate response for you, Switch and Jen, if the Baltic does try to run away? I have my own idea which is to strafe the Baltic fleet if it’s trying to escape, but it seems like Jen at least would never consider it. Simply allowing the Baltic to run away can majorly impact things later, even if the only thing is to make the Americans overbuild fighters/navy. At the cost of 0 German naval IPCs! : )
If they run, I will probably hit them HARD with UK and wipe them out (all available naval and air forces of UK against the Baltic Fleet (plus SZ8 SUB as you advocated).
Battle is either:
2 TRN, 1 BB, 2 FIG, 1 BOM (if Germans are in SZ7)
1 TRN, 1 BB, 2 FIG, 1 BOM (if Termans are in SZ6)
Against 1 TRN, 3 SUB, 1 DST
The odds are that UK survives with:
SZ7: 2 FIG, 1 BOM, 1 BB
SZ8: 2 FIG, 1 BB (losing BOM before FIGs)
Then drop a build of an AC and TRN in the battle sea zone, land FIGs on the AC, move the Russian SUB to join the fleet and DARE the Germans to come after my fleet on G2 usign only Luftwaffe for the attack (the Med Fleet is getting no where near that battle…)
5 FIG, 1 BOM vs 1 TRN, 1 SUB, 1 AC, 2 FIG, 1 BB
Only 26% odds for Germany, at the cost of the entire Luftwaffe.
Then drop a build of an AC and TRN in the battle sea zone, land FIGs on the AC, move the Russian SUB to join the fleet and DARE the Germans to come after my fleet on G2 usign only Luftwaffe for the attack (the Med Fleet is getting no where near that battle…)
What’re you blocking the med fleet off with? A dest or tran?
TRN. And grabbing Algeria for the hell of it with 1 INF, 1 ARM.
Still sounds like the best Axis opener. For buying 0 naval IPCS, you cost the Allies 3 transports and made the UK buy the carrier. At the beginning of turn 2 the UK only has 1 tran to land somewhere, meaning Germany can get farther in Africa than normal. How’s that for an “impotent” Baltic fleet? :evil:
Still sounds like the best Axis opener. For buying 0 naval IPCS, you cost the Allies 3 transports and made the UK buy the carrier. At the beginning of turn 2 the UK only has 1 tran to land somewhere, meaning Germany can get farther in Africa than normal. How’s that for an “impotent” Baltic fleet? :evil:
Hey, what was that Baltic fleet move again?
I betchoo I can do somethin wid da Allies that will rock teh Axis . . . unless you have a really fat Axis bid someplace, so be sure to mention how much the Axis bid and where it went (also the Russian and German moves; I reserve the right to veto any Russian move that I judge to be “on crack”).
Exactly, if the SZ 5 fleet stays home, the combined allied fleet in SZ 12 is still killable, but it takes Geramny’s air force and it’s going to punch some serious holes in it. Not worth it usually.
If the SZ 5 fleet runs to SZ 3, 6, 7 or 8, I’ll sink em and sink em GOOD. Depending where they are and where I am, I may or may not bring the Battleship.
The idea of not using the Battleship is to save it for later, thus not needing a carrier. The idea of using the battleship is to absorb a free hit and add to a carrier to make the German’s royally pay for making a channel dash on the counter-attack and the attack.
As I said though, it kind of depends what the board looks like at this point.
I betchoo I can do somethin wid da Allies that will rock teh Axis . . . unless you have a really fat Axis bid someplace, so be sure to mention how much the Axis bid and where it went (also the Russian and German moves; I reserve the right to veto any Russian move that I judge to be “on crack”).
I didn’t say this Axis opener would win the game or even shift the bids much if at all. I said it was the best available option with 0 German naval IPCs, to which I have heard no contradiction. All I hear is YAY the German navy will be sunk so bad, but that’s not the point. It’s beyond obvious that Germany can’t be a naval power, but how do you maximize what you’ve got? Linking the Baltic + SZ8 sub is a great move that discomforts the Allies much more than any other move I have seen, especially considering that it costs 0 naval IPCs which allows a full land build. Sitting in the Baltic is pretty bad because it lets the Allies deal with the navy on their own time, but running away forces them to do something about it immediately. That’s a bomber that can’t be used to counterattack in Anglo Egypt, a couple of dead UK transports, and a sacrificed American transport if you use Switch’s counter.
Linking the SZ 5 and SZ 8 fleets is not wise.
It’s much wiser to leave the SZ 5 fleet in SZ 5. This way, if England wants to kill it, they have to risk all their aircraft to get it. Otherwise, they risk losing 1 aircraft and a transport to sink the combined SZ 8 and SZ 5 fleet and prevent you from doing much of anything about it.
There is a cost though Wes… 1, maybe 2 German FIGs in SZ13 if you go air-only on the BB
A Med Fleet attack with AF and DST if the Med Fleet heads west.
I argued this whole Channel Dash thing over and over a bout a year ago with the guy that runs Caspian Sub. It is NOT a viable German option, only a fast way to lose your ENTIRE navy and most of your airforce, instead of just the Baltic Fleet.
There is a cost though Wes… 1, maybe 2 German FIGs in SZ13 if you go air-only on the BB
A Med Fleet attack with AF and DST if the Med Fleet heads west.
I argued this whole Channel Dash thing over and over a bout a year ago with the guy that runs Caspian Sub. It is NOT a viable German option, only a fast way to lose your ENTIRE navy and most of your airforce, instead of just the Baltic Fleet.
Wait, I don’t understand…what’re you talking about? Air only on what BB? Send the Med bb/tran and 2 fighters to kill the SZ13 BB. Take Gibraltar.
And why do you keep saying that Germany has to sacrifice their airforce? You don’t have to make attacks that cost you airforce. You don’t understand how the threat of an attack slows the Allies down, and that is the point. No one’s trying to say that you should be able to take out Allied shipping, or that you even should actually try to at the cost of airforce. It’s about slowing the Allies down, letting them sacrifice 3 transports at low to no cost to German airforce, and making the Uk buy the carrier.
It’s much wiser to leave the SZ 5 fleet in SZ 5. This way, if England wants to kill it, they have to risk all their aircraft to get it.
But you see, England has quite a few options. They don’t have to kill it immediately; they could build up an extra fighter or two. They can build anywhere they want to and make pretty much anything they want to if the Baltic is waiting there for UK action. However, moving out prompts the UK to immediately sacrifice 2 transports and the US to sacrifice another tranport and makes the UK build a carrier and also jettisons their tank from W. Canada, which I forgot to mention earlier. That is 24-29 IPCs of units that must be replaced. You don’t have to rebuild the fighters/bomber that you lose if you attack the Baltic, they don’t influence your ability to land or build up forces. But transports you have to replace. That’s about a rounds worth of truly delaying the Allies.
Sticking the German fleets out front too early is simply a way to remove any roadblocks that the Allies would have to face later. There is NO slow down. Allies either lose 1 turn early taking out the fleets, or 1 turn later taking out the fleets when the time comes to make their landings.
And losing the Kriegsmarine early means that Germany has to defend more of its coast from immediate amphib than they would if they could rely on their navy to give them 1 round of defense first.
There is NO slow down. Allies either lose 1 turn early taking out the fleets, or 1 turn later taking out the fleets when the time comes to make their landings.
The Allies lose no time taking out the Baltic fleet on UK 1 with airforce. Their transport system hasn’t been impacted in the slightest, there is no 1 turn delay sooner or later, and they can rely on less defense than usual since there’s already no more German naval fodder. 0 turns delay!
I don’t see how you can say NO slow down when the allies are down 3 transports, possibly the tank from Canada, UK building a carrier. That is a slow down right there, plus to Germany.
If the Baltic sits in SZ5, then the Allies knock it out immediately, not spending a single dime to replace their transport system. UK doesn’t have to spend a turn rebuilding its airforce, but it does have to spend a turn rebuilding its transport system.
I betchoo I can do somethin wid da Allies that will rock teh Axis . . . unless you have a really fat Axis bid someplace, so be sure to mention how much the Axis bid and where it went (also the Russian and German moves; I reserve the right to veto any Russian move that I judge to be “on crack”).
I didn’t say this Axis opener would win the game or even shift the bids much if at all. I said it was the best available option with 0 German naval IPCs, to which I have heard no contradiction. All I hear is YAY the German navy will be sunk so bad, but that’s not the point. It’s beyond obvious that Germany can’t be a naval power, but how do you maximize what you’ve got? Linking the Baltic + SZ8 sub is a great move that discomforts the Allies much more than any other move I have seen, especially considering that it costs 0 naval IPCs which allows a full land build. Sitting in the Baltic is pretty bad because it lets the Allies deal with the navy on their own time, but running away forces them to do something about it immediately. That’s a bomber that can’t be used to counterattack in Anglo Egypt, a couple of dead UK transports, and a sacrificed American transport if you use Switch’s counter.
Woops, didn’t mean to say u were sayin it was a game winner or anythin. damn i need a sandwich! not thinking or writing very clearly.
Linking the Baltic and the German sub off Sea Zone 8? o ya the muscle channel dash (oo that sounds secksy . . mm . .) Think I’ve seen that comboed with a two fighter buy for Germany. always meant to give that strat another look, i don’t see anything inherently wrong with the move.
comments?
Trihero:
The allies lose a lot on Round 1 if they go for the SZ 5 fleet. They potentially lose all their British fighters and bombers for a pair of submarines. Not a good trade.
I almost never hit SZ 5 with my air force. Sometimes I do. But almost never. 35 IPC in aircraft is more then England’s first pay check!
Thank you Jen.
UK with no AF is pretty much impotent.
If you don´t kill German Baltic fleet your in for headache.
That means theres more units to Hit your fleet with.
