What Do Do With French Units (F1) That Survive German Attack


  • We played an Alpha2 game in San Diego on Sunday, right?

    So on Sunday I’m playing as USSR/France and the German player, after consulting the Alpha2 opening moves charts failed to send even two planes at France, and split his ground troops between France and Normandy.  France survived with a tank left, and he was forced to retreat to Belgium from Normandy, leaving the French tank and UK fighter.  He only had a tank left in both France and Belgium.

    What should I have done with the French tank at that point?  I ended up just hitting Belgium with the tank and fighter from UK.  (see picture below)  Should I have gone for the liberation of Paris instead?  I didn’t want to give Germany another 14 IPCs of French money, but that would be countered by the 4 infantry I’d get for the NO, and the losses he’d endure retaking it.  Oh, and I’d have to sacrifice the fighter, since France is 3 spaces away from UK.

    What do you think?  Take the risk for Paris or the conservative road and take Belgium?


  • if germany had even 2 ground units for the g2 counter on paris AND the french tank survived, its a gamble at best

    if he had none or 1, maybe.  but the luftwaffe’s heavy presence in western europe after g1 discourages such maneuvers. that’s a lot of firepower and he doesn’t need many hit soakers.

    looking at the pic, you did the right thing (unless you lost the UK normandy fighter hitting belgium???)

    and play alpha3, its funner  :mrgreen:


  • As far as I can see, you could have as well hit Belgium with the British and retake france with the remaining french units, preserving the french fighter in normandy, because of to many targets for germany to attack, which would leave their attacks at high risk if they try all of them.

    my 2 cent


  • Guy, I didn’t lose the French fighter in the UK.  You can see it in the pic.  The point of the attack was taking out the German tank, taking the territory was just a bonus because he missed with his tank on defense.  Also, I’d rather play Alpha3, but it wasn’t my choice.

    Cenator, Germany goes right after France, so I wouldn’t have had a shot.  First because the UK planes were tied up destroying German subs, and 2nd because Italy goes after UK and could finish the French before they had thier turn.  I did not expect to have that tank left.  The pic was taken right before the German Turn 2.


  • i still love alpha 3…
    i think alpha 3.9 isn’t finished yet…
    and it means absolutely no sealion, which makes te game so much fun (barbarossa or sealion) or the british build-up at malta…


  • You have already won. Just don’t jump the gun now that Germany is weak as balls. Play it patiently and allow the US to build a large landing force of around 10-15 transports. You can afford to wait now that Germany is so far behind.

    It really doesn’t matter what you do with the French at this point.


  • KillO, I think you’re probably right.  I’m just clueless as to why people just HAVE to hit the UK navy turn 1 at the cost of sending those planes into France.  Then you wonder why you lose everything.
    I’d rather the British survive (minus their destroyers) and keep all my mech and tanks for Russia, but that would just make too much sense.

    And hurry up and post here before the topic gets sent to “House Rules”.


  • i agree I prefer to use the aircraft vs. france. to preserve those tanks and artillery for hitting Russia. The Royal Navy can be distracted or out right crushed on G2. By not crushing the navy on G1 the UK player will feel safe and not buy ships or ground troops to defend london. The G2 sinking of the Royal Navy will completely catch him off guard. You risk screwing Italy. But the final goal is Moscow not Africa.


  • personally i skip normandy g1 so i can send basically all land forces and NO air at france, if any maybe a tac

    you don’t have to hit 111, but you MUST hit 110 and preferably 91 if ur trying to save italy
    by NOT hitting 110 at least, you allow it and the UK med fleet to conglomerate just inside the med…
    byebye italy  😢

    so hitting 110 is important use air for that and all land for paris

    in this scenario, germany should have plenty left over after france, if not they got diced, but it shouldn’t happen too often

    especially with the presence of AA fire in alpha 3 (can’t remember if paris has AA in alpha2), sending german air is risky.  why let a plane that hasn’t done anything yet get shot down?  air superiority is key for the axis during the mid/late game, as it gives them options, opportunities, and versitility that they otherwise would not have.

    the key for paris is to make sure germany didn’t lose any tanks and has about 2-3 slow moving ground troops (or mechs) to mop up normandy on g2 in conjunction with the luftwaffe


  • I think that if you don’t hit the entire UK navy G1, it will comeback and bite you later. America won’t have to build as many warships, and England will have an easier time landing troops in Norway or some other inconvenient place.

    If the UK navy is dead, you are free to convoy disrupt and protect your shorelines.


  • so what would you hit then KillO?

    110, 111, and 106/9?

    i mean you can’t hit EVERYTHING, right?


  • I don’t know about you guys, but I like to just take out the UK destroyers so my subs can convoy disrupt without worry. Also, you seem, KillO, to be under the impression that the UK navy won’t be touched at all, which is incorrect, as Germany really doesnt have anything else to do G2.

    @guy:

    in this scenario, germany should have plenty left over after france, if not they got diced, but it shouldn’t happen too often

    Guy, obviously not, if I can save all the tanks and mechs. Anything else I can save is just a bonus, like artillery, to help defend France eventually.

    You’re all so stuck in your ways. Anything that doesn’t go perfect for you is all the dice and not bad strategy. Then you cry and complain and do it all over again.


  • And back to the original subject, I guess the question is how often does Paris get liberated?  I’ve never once seen the French get that 12 bucks to spend on units.  So I may as well have done it.
    They don’t start with an AA gun in Paris in Alpha2.
    I’m thinking I should have hit Paris to liberate it, and spent my 12 bucks on 1 AA gun, one infantry, and one mech to spend it all.  That gives me 2 infantry, one tank, and one AA gun, so if I shoot down even one plane then it was all worth it.  I land the French fighter in Normandy, so if he wants to kill it, he has to send at least a tank or a few planes, and I’ll probably get a hit.

    Then Germany flips out like that guy on youtube that went ape.  After I explain to him that it all could have been avoided by a better G1 strategy.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFrZXYi3lgI


  • Then Germany flips out like that guy on youtube that went ape.  After I explain to him that it all could have been avoided by a better G1 strategy.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFrZXYi3lgI

    not funny…had to prevent a guy from doing that once in a 42 game before…needless to say we never played with him ever again…not cool dude…not cool.


  • @guy:

    so what would you hit then KillO?

    110, 111, and 106/9?

    i mean you can’t hit EVERYTHING, right?

    I hit 110, 111, and 106.

    sz 110: 2 fight, 2 tac, 2 strat, 2 subs (100% victory if no scramble, 80% with scramble)
    sz 111: 2 fight, 2 tac, 2 subs (97-98% victory if no scramble, 81% with scramble)
    sz 106: 1 sub (toss up)

    And yes, I don’t use the battleship because I don’t want to leave it susceptible to counter attack.


  • @robbie358:

    Then Germany flips out like that guy on youtube that went ape.  After I explain to him that it all could have been avoided by a better G1 strategy.

    I stopped explaining to other people there mistakes along time ago for that very reason. Rarely I will offer advice in a face to face game (post game advice) and I even once offered an indepth teaching of the game but he was a friend for 7 years at the time. but as far as something like well you wouldn’t be fighting these fights if  you planned things out better. Never. My dad did that to me as a kid playing risk sucked the fun right out of it.


  • @robbie

    feel like i need to clarify some things…

    my point was that if germany concentrates its entire land force on france (hell, even in alpha2) then the situation you presented in the pic wouldn’t happen, barring better than average dice for the allies.  if germany hadn’t split resources to try and hit normandy AND france AND some combination of UK ships, then you as the allies wouldn’t have even had the option to counter france.

    its a fact then when you start splitting a few strong combined attacks into multiple splinter attacks, that your odds of each attack being successful goes down.

    the remaining allied forces in normandy pose no lasting threat, so why risk a situation like this unfolding when you can just blow paris to bits and lose only some inf and art?

    paris is an extremely crucial fight.  if the axis are already slipping up on G1 then things are only gonna get worse…

    but i suppose maybe you COULD have tried a counter, didn’t look like he had much to sack paris with (except air), tho i didn’t look at the italian position


  • this might be a lil off topic, but since german openings are vaguely relevant….

    @robbie, if you opt to use your air primarily for the destruction of france AND you attempt to disable all UK destroyers in the atlantic:

    1)how is the second part accomplished? (what do you send where?)
    and
    2)how could any self-respecting allied player allow you to hit the fleet on g2?

    if it were me, even if i had to run all the way to canada, that’s what i’d do.  the brits start with a healthy amount of core ships.  you let them go and you won’t see them til an allied landing party plops down in europe.  either that or italy gets slapped around like rihanna.

    i’m not opposed to the idea of freeing up those mechs/tanks for russia, but seems like the axis will miss a big opportunity to clear the atlantic a bit


  • @guy:

    1)how is the second part accomplished? (what do you send where?)

    if it were me, even if i had to run all the way to canada, that’s what i’d do.  the brits start with a healthy amount of core ships.  you let them go and you won’t see them til an allied landing party plops down in europe.  either that or italy gets slapped around like rihanna.

    i’m not opposed to the idea of freeing up those mechs/tanks for russia, but seems like the axis will miss a big opportunity to clear the atlantic a bit

    Simple, they give you enough subs at the start of the game.  It’s basically designed so that you can hit them all.  Two subs on the Canadian destroyer/transport[106], two subs (and maybe a bomber) on the UK destroyer/transport[109], leaves you one sub, with 4 fighters and a strategic bomber for the Battleship/cruiser/destroyer[111].  You can send 5 tacticals into France, paired with the 6 tanks.

    All destroyers gone, France falls in probably one turn.  You lose 5 or 6 infantry, keep all artillery, mechs, and tanks.  The UK fleet is inconsequential, as they can’t hurt your subs.  They’re down to two cruisers and a battleship.  Then your 3 bombers (build one G1) hit the UK with an SBR, along with the convoy disrupts, and 2 tacs, one each hitting the naval and air bases, neutralizes the UK for quite awile.


  • I’m supposing he’d send his 4 planes against the 2 subs and bomber, leaving the rest of the attack alone.  My purpose being to kill his destroyer.  If one of my subs survive to kill the transport, it’s just a bonus, and if he wants to take the bomber hit on a plane, it wouldn’t be so bad.  I’ll take the bomber in order to keep the sub.

    My build is 2 bombers and a sub, btw.  Just in case he’s an idiot and puts his remaining ships in 109 to try and defend them.
    Also, how does the UK affect Italy if the Italians take Gibraltar?  He doesn’t have any transports left…

    So there you go, my G1 moves.  Know you know my super-secret plan.  Commence the arguing!


  • Robbie,

    @robbie358:

    All destroyers gone, France falls in probably one turn.  You lose 5 or 6 infantry, keep all artillery, mechs, and tanks.  The UK fleet is inconsequential, as they can’t hurt your subs.  They’re down to two cruisers and a battleship.  Then your 3 bombers (build one G1) hit the UK with an SBR, along with the convoy disrupts, and 2 tacs, one each hitting the naval and air bases, neutralizes the UK for quite awile.

    I see you’re general idea but if UK comes out with 2 cruisers and a battleship, they are hardly “neutralized.” UK’s priority is to cripple Italy, and it can easily make it into the Med by UK2, especially if British put a block in sz 94, there’s now way Italy can  land a transport in Gibralter

    Secondly, if you attack sz 110 with just 1 sub, 4 fighters and bomber, why wouldn’t the UK player scramble there? He would have a 78.3% chance of victory, meaning your entire fighter force is gone.

    You’re whole idea seems like a mismanagement of resources. You would sacrifice 2 subs and a bomber to kill 1 DD and 1 TR, only to build MORE subs to cause convoy disruption, which all it takes is to neutralize that is 1 DD buy in sz 106 to kill of any subs in sz 109. You’re essentially doing UK’s job for you; draining precious resources away from the Eastern Front.


  • 111 is the sea zone I want, because it has a destroyer.  If I’m not mistaken, he can only sortie one plane into 111, the one from Scotland.
    And how does he buy a destroyer in SZ106 if I have two subs there to kill it?  And why would he do that anyways, if he’s at all worried about sealion he’ll build infantry in the UK.

    My problem is with the fact that people attack SZ110, but don’t listen to me.  Leave those UK destroyers alone, so they wipe out your subs, and don’t send any planes into France.  Good luck with that.

    I’ll stick with my Germany plan, it’s worked every time.


  • @robbie358:

    111 is the sea zone I want, because it has a destroyer.  If I’m not mistaken, he can only sortie one plane into 111, the one from Scotland.
    And how does he buy a destroyer in SZ106 if I have two subs there to kill it?  And why would he do that anyways, if he’s at all worried about sealion he’ll build infantry in the UK.

    My problem is with the fact that people attack SZ110, but don’t listen to me.  Leave those UK destroyers alone, so they wipe out your subs, and don’t send any planes into France.  Good luck with that.

    I’ll stick with my Germany plan, it’s worked every time.

    You’re right, forgive me about that sea zone mix up.

    I also don’t understand how attacking sz 110 is such a bad maneuver. I still take France with maybe a few hits on my artillery, but never with my tanks, and I only send 1 tac to France.

    And when it comes to subs, you’re not using them correctly, so it really doesn’t matter that you’ve protected them for 1 round. If you have 2 subs in sz 106,all the UK player has to do is attack your subs with his cruiser and battleship and you’ve lost another 2 subs. So by the end of the 2nd round, you have lost all 5 subs and the UK player still has some important ships surviving. Now you are forced to build even more subs to gain any value from destroying the destroyers.

    But at any rate, I have no doubt that you have had success with your plan, I just think that you have some significant flaws.


  • You realize that submarines submerge, right?  He can’t kill my subs if he doesn’t have a destroyer.  Period.


  • I understand, so the UK purchases a destroyer on the same turn that he moves his fleet in sz 106. Next turn he finishes you wherever you run, and his fleet is safe. So by round 3 you will have lost the second set of subs.

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