Happy Math v Terrorism



  • We often argue here about ratios, statistics and(my favourite)percentages. I found this article showing that terrrorists/terrorism is losing the numbers game, especially when we don’t let them frighten us.
    Source:
    http://www.arabnews.com/Article.asp?ID=26801

    Of course, terrorism is changing form as we speak, but those fighting it seem to be a little ahead of the curve now…trying to restrict access to WMD and components for rogue states and terrorist groups.

    What else might be done?



  • Nail the countries that support terrorism. :evil:


  • 2019 Moderator

    I am not afraid of terrorisam. I think the reason terrorisam causes so much fear is media outlets like Al-Jazeera cater to them and get their messege out. If no one advertised their message then the acts of terrorisam would do them no good.

    So, I think that any Media outlet that conveys information from a terrorist or terrorist organisation, should be held partialy responsable for the groups activities.



  • lol…the “i’m not afraid of terrorism” line just made me think of this thing. I would just give the link, but what it says would probably be changed soon.

    "OH MY GOD!! DID YOU HEAR?! THE TERROR ALERT HAS BEEN RAISED TO ORANGE!

    AGAIN!!

    DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOMES!

    STAY TUNED TO CNN FOR BREAKING NEWS!

    A TERRORIST ATTACK IS LIKELY TO OCCUR IN THE NEXT TWO DAYS!

    But don’t panic.

    Stay vigilant, but live your lives. Go about your day-to-day business but keep in mind, AN ATTACK IS ALL BUT CERTAIN!!

    Bull corn.

    Does anyone else see how totally ludicrous this whole Terror Alert nonsense is? Can anyone else see what a huge, steaming load of crap is being forced down your throat each and every day?

    It’s almost Memorial Day weekend; better raise the Terror Alert so maybe we can sell the rest of this flippin’ duct tape and plastic sheeting.

    Here are a few comments from the masses about the recent change in the Alert Status:

    “I watched the towers burn from my office building on September 11th. I will never let those cowards have control over my life again. My Memorial Day party will go on and we will view the Memorial Day parade from the safety of our car while wearing bulletproof jackets and helmets. God bless America. Semper fi.” - Jacki , Podunk Iowa

    Congratulations, Jacki. How courageous of you. It’s true; if you don’t attend your hometown’s Memorial Day picnic, the terrorists will have won.

    Don’t stop for a minute to think that no one would even notice if your town were blown off the map and, if for some reason, some terrorist was able to lace the potato salad with Anthrax, and everyone in your town died, no one would even find out until June because NO ONE EVEN KNOWS YOU’RE THERE.

    “I’m not going to attend any sporting events or participate in any other activity that would require me to be close to large groups of people this Memorial Day weekend. I’ll still enjoy myself but in this day and age, you just have to use common sense” -Betty, Someshittownin Kansas

    I agree, Betty. If I were you, I would take my family way the hell out into the desert, dig a hole and hide in it until this Terror Alert is lowered. Take a satellite phone and one of those radios with the hand-cranked battery so you can listen to the news 24-7. God bless America.

    This is all being broadcast, with a straight face, from a news agency that transitions from footage of Iraqi citizens looting their burned out country, to a 30 minute segment, complete with ‘experts’ to debate who will win American Idol.

    You people are JUST NOT GETTING IT. September 11, 2001 was over 20 months ago. Baseball stadiums are not exploding. Jumbo jets are not slamming down into family picnics all over the country. No one wants to kill you.

    Except maybe CNN.

    This Terror Alert is nothing more than a nice way for our government to cover it’s big white behind. If something were to happen, which it won’t, and they didn’t whip you into a panic before hand, people would scream and cry, “why didn’t you warn us?”

    So guess what. Every so often, for sometimes is no good reason at all, they are going to try to scare the shit out of you and apparently, you’re all so stupid that you’re going to keep falling for it, over and over and over again.

    I’m starting to think that Osama Bin Laden is just some day-laborer that they picked up, photographed in the Nevada desert and dropped back off at the 7-11 where they found him.

    The Indians in Mel Brooks’ Blazing Saddles looked more convincing than these “terrorists” they keep showing on TV.

    I think I understand what’s going on here and I think I know exactly how to handle this situation.

    Like all mindless sheep, you need something to believe in. Someone to follow. Something other than who will win American Idol to worry about, so here is what I am going to do for you.

    I am willing to bet. Seriously. I will take ALL bets. I wager that NOTHNG happens this Memorial Day weekend and I will give you ONE THOUSAND TO ONE odds on it. That means if you bet one dollar, and nothing happens, you lose a dollar BUT… if you send JUST ONE DOLLAR to Fugly.com and there is some sort of terrorist attack at your picnic; If a 747 is piloted into your baseball game this Memorial Day, you will win ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS from Fugly.com. In addition, you will also receive a personal apology about my comments on what a total police state full of paranoid, flag-waving, mindless morons I think this country is becoming. "

    lol…comments?


  • 2019 Moderator

    Couldn’t have said it better myself.

    I was in Dallas on sept. 11th. Everyone was positivly crappin gthem selves sure that Dallas, the symbol of American freedom would be next.

    One guy said to me “Well we got a lot of tall buildings downtown.”

    Give me a break!

    If I lived in New York City or D.C. I might pay a little attention. But even though I am reminded regularly that I live 50 miles from the biggest Nucular Power Plant in the world, they aren’t comming here.



  • hey ctm,
    although i appreciate many of your comments above, please keep the language less “offensive” - i.e. the “f-” word et al. Also “Ragheads” is, I believe, and inappropriate term to refer to many of my friends and colleagues.
    Please feel free to edit your message as you feel appropriate.
    cc



  • Done 🙂 ! my fav is the “bull corn” 😎 now that’s good editing

    lol sorry about that though…I got the comments from a “controversial” website, and hadnt thought of editing it. I apologize!



  • I am more afraid of a drunk driver running me over than of terrorism. A lot more afraid.



  • I agree w/Y_sman,

    And when I find myself afraid of the bad guys for any reason I just remember the Iraqi Information Minister, “there are no American forces in Iraqi, but if they are here we are are destroying them.” And the film footage of the Iraqi military straegy meeting where the map on the wall was shaking because of the bombs exploding outside the building. :lol:

    Or closer to home … anybody see the news about the “Kissing Bandit” @ the Cincinnati Reds game on Saturday? He was pictured kissing his date ON THE JUMBOTRON and his parole officer was @ the game. He was arrested @ the 7th inning stretch for violating parole(he didn’t show up @ his last hearing)and may go to jail for up to 20 years. :roll:



  • What else might be done…

    The prime thing would be to fight the source of terrorism. Fear, Misunderstanding etc., and instead teach tolerance and acceptance of other ways of life and cultures (to both sides!!).

    A famous word, of a victim of terror short after WWI:
    “Freedom alwys is the Freedom of those differently minded.”



  • I completely agree Falk. Terrorism is not something that can be beaten with bombs, although sometimes bombs are neccessary.



  • I find this struggle between nations and terrorists to be a sideshow(a terrible one, but still a sideshow. History will make note of it moreso than the true conflict.

    I understand F_alk’s point, but it is too simplistic. It’s not a “both sides” or ‘them v us’ concept. Terrorists exist in various cultures fighting for different things(a separate nation, a fundamentalist Islamic nation, or to keep the existing government weak are just a few examples.)

    The key terrorism we speak of these days seems to be Islamic fundamentalists fighting to destroy Israel/the Jews, create a fundamentalist Islamic nation, and/or drive the infidels from Islam’s holy lands(What is holy is an argument unto itself for these groups.)

    I do not believe that the key fight in this arena will be between Christians/Jews and Muslims, nor between the US/various democracies and Muslims, nor between Muslim countries such as Turkey and Iran. I perceive that the struggle will be between conservative and fundamentalist Muslims for the future of Islam.

    The conservatives are found to be more numerous in the democracies of the world and vary from a minority to a majority in different parts of the Middle East, Africa and the Pacific Islands. The fundamentalist’s stronghold is the “cradle of Isam” and radiates from there to where it can gain ground the easiest. This would be Africa, the Pacific Islands, and those struggling in affluent societies(Note the mosques built with Saudi oil money throughout the US and the efforts to gain followers in the prisons[though Christians also put efforts toward the prison population, too.])

    We try to comprehend the conflict, but we “see through a glass darkly.” We who do not walk the path of Islam or one that seldom intersects it can understand little of the struggle. We do not know their culture nor do we read the Holy Quran in its perfect form(Arabic.)

    I have studied and spoken with students of a variety of Middle Eastern cultures. I tell you we do not know the trouble to come. Some of it will be violence, some spiritual, some cognitive.

    My hope is that those who think they lead the struggle will know when to be still so that the true battle may begin in earnest.



  • Just a note. In my Driver’s Education class, we had a member of the rescue squad to come in and speak. Here are some facts he mentioned:

    Drivers killed on highways alone every year: 43,000
    Of these drivers, number of drivers legally drunk: 25,000

    Terrorism? Outlaw Alchohol, we’ll actually be doing some good.



  • @Yanny:

    Just a note. In my Driver’s Education class, we had a member of the rescue squad to come in and speak. Here are some facts he mentioned:

    Drivers killed on highways alone every year: 43,000
    Of these drivers, number of drivers legally drunk: 25,000

    Terrorism? Outlaw Alchohol, we’ll actually be doing some good.

    The problem is that people are allowed to drive just after they are able to reproduce. We need these people to select themselves out of the gene pool somehow without taking innocent non-idiots with them.



  • Comparing the drunk driving death stats to deaths by terrorism, ey?
    Want to ponder an even more sobering statistic?
    11 million is about 1.8 percent of 6 billion.
    Know what I’m working back towards?
    A statistic I heard quoted a while ago.

    I wanted to check it out for myself, in round numbers, so I “did the math.”
    The statistical statement was along the lines of… 3,000 people were killed in the 9/11 terrorist attack – yet, every day around the world, 30,000 children die of disease, starvation, war, etc. Not one day out of the year. Every day.

    So I did the simple math, to gauge whether it seemed to make sense: 30,000 x 365 is approx. 11 million annually. And that’s a bit under 2 percent of the six billion world population, which seems roughly what it might be. Indeed, even if the number is way off, and it’s “only” 15,000 a day, or 5.5 million a year, it seems accurate. And while I have not looked up World Health Org or UN stats to check, I would venture to say that the number one killer is certainly mosquito-borne malaria, followed by several other major bacterial and viral strains. Think of that! The flimsy little mosquito, which rarely lives for more than a couple of days, is the most consistent, lethal assassin of youth on our planet.

    It’s the poverty, the ignorance, the greed, the fear… that keep us as a species from besting these challenges. Like you all said above, this macabre entertainment of overhyped terrorism and religion-warped strife will certainly take on “sideshow” status in the long, historical view of our presumed “progress.” Poor kids.



  • 😮 So every time I kill a mosquito, I’ll tell myself I just saved a life. They should write a book about me, I’d be like a saint by now



  • Sure, you just need an energetic literary agent – and an audience with the Pope!



  • @ZimZaxZeo:

    Comparing the drunk driving death stats to deaths by terrorism, ey?
    Want to ponder an even more sobering statistic?
    11 million is about 1.8 percent of 6 billion.
    Know what I’m working back towards?
    A statistic I heard quoted a while ago.

    I wanted to check it out for myself, in round numbers, so I “did the math.”
    The statistical statement was along the lines of… 3,000 people were killed in the 9/11 terrorist attack – yet, every day around the world, 30,000 children die of disease, starvation, war, etc. Not one day out of the year. Every day.

    So I did the simple math, to gauge whether it seemed to make sense: 30,000 x 365 is approx. 11 million annually. And that’s a bit under 2 percent of the six billion world population, which seems roughly what it might be. Indeed, even if the number is way off, and it’s “only” 15,000 a day, or 5.5 million a year, it seems accurate. And while I have not looked up World Health Org or UN stats to check, I would venture to say that the number one killer is certainly mosquito-borne malaria, followed by several other major bacterial and viral strains. Think of that! The flimsy little mosquito, which rarely lives for more than a couple of days, is the most consistent, lethal assassin of youth on our planet.

    It’s the poverty, the ignorance, the greed, the fear… that keep us as a species from besting these challenges. Like you all said above, this macabre entertainment of overhyped terrorism and religion-warped strife will certainly take on “sideshow” status in the long, historical view of our presumed “progress.” Poor kids.

    This is all a very good point.
    Your math is flawed, however - you are off by a magnitude of 10 - it is 0.18%.
    This doesn’t change the fact that millions of people are dying of preventable illnesses and diseases annually. At the same time, population control is increasingly necessary period. Are these nature’s way of keeping the earth in some kind of twisted balance?



  • @El:

    I find this struggle between nations and terrorists to be a sideshow(a terrible one, …

    It is more than a sideshow for a lot of people though, and i fear there it is very easy to plant hate and desire for revenge into anybodies heart.
    Remember what happened in Europe by the mutual hate between French and Germans after the 1870/71 war. Well, it happened 45 / 70 years later, but it seems as this is how long it takes to really make the people believe the hate and reach all of them.

    I understand F_alk’s point, but it is too simplistic.

    Sure it is, but it’s the only way to start as i see it. Everything else will turn into “us vs. them” for at least one of the involved parties.

    It’s not a “both sides” or ‘them v us’ concept. Terrorists exist in various cultures fighting for different things(a separate nation, a fundamentalist Islamic nation, or to keep the existing government weak are just a few examples.)

    Well, even then it is an “us vs. them”, the terrorists see themselves as freedom-fighters (as do their allies) while the other side calls them terrorists. Alone the name giving tells you which side you are on. Whatever scenario, you find at least two struggling parties, one of them -usually the “weaker” one- using methods of guerilla warfare, thus terrorism in modern words.

    The key terrorism we speak of these days seems to be Islamic fundamentalists fighting to destroy Israel/the Jews, create a fundamentalist Islamic nation, and/or drive the infidels from Islam’s holy lands(What is holy is an argument unto itself for these groups.)

    This is the picture that is shown to us. But are you so sure that you are describing the source or the symptoms? It more seems that you already picked a side ( like everyone who first hears of the conflict).

    I do not believe that the key fight in this arena will be between Christians/Jews and Muslims, nor between the US/various democracies and Muslims, nor between Muslim countries such as Turkey and Iran. I perceive that the struggle will be between conservative and fundamentalist Muslims for the future of Islam.

    smile and of course there are no liberal muslims. You are right in what you say though.

    We try to comprehend the conflict, but we “see through a glass darkly.” We who do not walk the path of Islam or one that seldom intersects it can understand little of the struggle. We do not know their culture nor do we read the Holy Quran in its perfect form(Arabic.)

    Some do though, and if you listen to what they have to say, then suddenly the whole struggle looks different and very much like the things you said above.
    And what you said is of course a reasons why so many misunderstandings happen. “We westerners” on the side of power and might no as much as nothing about “them muslims”, but still, we expect them to understand our ways, see that we are -of course- right, and that it would be better to them to follow us. With this, we deny them their right to live their own culture, and exactly this - the westernization or as muslim fundamentalists would say: corruption - of Islam is the source of their fundamentalism. Just like christianity had reformation and counter-reformation (of the catholic church) some thousand years after it was started, Islam now has a “reformation” and return to “the true values” (look at this and remember what all evangelistic protestantism was about in its early days).
    And we sit outside, watch, and support some of those in the struggle. And this support of course makes us the enemies of the other side.



  • @cystic:

    The problem is that people are allowed to drive just after they are able to reproduce. We need these people to select themselves out of the gene pool somehow without taking innocent non-idiots with them.

    Sounds like you enjoy the Darwin awards a lot 🙂



  • @F_alk:

    [
    Well, even then it is an “us vs. them”, the terrorists see themselves as freedom-fighters (as do their allies) while the other side calls them terrorists. Alone the name giving tells you which side you are on. Whatever scenario, you find at least two struggling parties, one of them -usually the “weaker” one- using methods of guerilla warfare, thus terrorism in modern words.

    UG!!!
    The guy who goes out into a mall in order to intentionally kill as many women and children as possible is not a guerilla warrior, i do not care whose perspective you are using. This “person” is an evil butcher. Terrorist is a most appropriate label in this instance.
    Bravo to the warrior who is facing a known enemy warrior, who uses stealth, cunning and strategy to best him on whatever turf by use of guerrila warfare.



  • That actually is a quite new phenomenon in conflicts of states vs. people.
    Up to some time, terrorists/guerilla were happy in attacking enemy warriors, with the enemy attacking the supposed terrorists supporters. See Vietnam, Yugoslavia, France, Russia in WW2.
    Now, in Israel/Palestine, the situation is different: here the guerilla/terrorists can actually reach the enemies civilians in their attacks, something that was impossible formerly.
    I believe that is one reason why the above has changed.

    I did not take into account another kinds of terrorism/guerilla: civil uprising against the own government. Here the situation is different, but surely we can agree that it is not the situation we find in Israel/Palestine.
    Much more it is the case of what we knew to be terrorism in the 70s to mid 80s: some people (most often very few) take violent acts to “fight against the establishment”, most often in hope for a “better” society.

    Those people who “just” run amok and kill as many people as possible, i would not like to define as terrorists, but plain mad criminals.



  • @F_alk:

    That actually is a quite new phenomenon in conflicts of states vs. people.
    Up to some time, terrorists/guerilla were happy in attacking enemy warriors, with the enemy attacking the supposed terrorists supporters. See Vietnam, Yugoslavia, France, Russia in WW2.
    Now, in Israel/Palestine, the situation is different: here the guerilla/terrorists can actually reach the enemies civilians in their attacks, something that was impossible formerly.
    I believe that is one reason why the above has changed.

    I did not take into account another kinds of terrorism/guerilla: civil uprising against the own government. Here the situation is different, but surely we can agree that it is not the situation we find in Israel/Palestine.
    Much more it is the case of what we knew to be terrorism in the 70s to mid 80s: some people (most often very few) take violent acts to “fight against the establishment”, most often in hope for a “better” society.

    Those people who “just” run amok and kill as many people as possible, i would not like to define as terrorists, but plain mad criminals.

    i see we are more or less on the same page. So with respect to your last paragraph - would you include abortion doctors in that category? 😄



  • @cystic:

    @F_alk:

    Those people who “just” run amok and kill as many people as possible, i would not like to define as terrorists, but plain mad criminals.

    i see we are more or less on the same page. So with respect to your last paragraph - would you include abortion doctors in that category? 😄

    😉 …. well, if it is an abortion doctor who runs around and does abortions without consent of the possible mother, then yes.



  • ZZZ, your 11m due to starvation annually doen’t work to well for me. I am familiar enough with famine/starvation in Africa, where much(NOT MOST)of the starvation/famine occurs. Families have many children because so many die due to diseases. This adds too much pressure to the environment, with national war/civil war/religious war, that cannot easily support a small family. Thus you have just part of the problem.
    @F_alk:

    And we sit outside, watch, and support some of those in the struggle. And this support of course makes us the enemies of the other side.

    And WHAT do you suggest…we let them kill one another?

    Yes, I know Israel has done some things wrong. It was on yesterday’s news.

    Yet I do not see the UN addressing Syria’s occupation of southern Lebanon permitting rocket and mortarattacks on northern Israel. Nor do I see the UN confronting Jordan on it’s occcupation of Palestinian territories.

    I have Arab and Muslim(yes, I separate them because not all have kept the faith they/their parents believed) friends. Most tell me they left their countries because of the religious and/or government persecution. They are Egyptian, Saudi, Jordanian, Syrian, Iraqi and Iranian(LOTS of Iranians.)

    I have spoken with them at length about the problems in the US and their own countries.

    I speak from my limited world as do we all.

    Alekum salaam!


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