Where to build a Jap IC

@Zhukov44:

I’m not convinced the factories would necessarily help Allies.  If Allies can’t afford to protect them, they become liabilities.

A huge difference in AA50 versus previous editions is how seperated/well-defined the two theatres of war are for USA.  Once in one of the theatres, it is very hard if almost impossible to move into the other theatre while still being useful.  An example of what I mean may help.  If USA can establish a presence in the south pacific, either via a navy (hard to do early) or via Australia, she can land fighters into India for support.  Put an IC in Australia to cover these fighters, providing defense on their way to India, where they would again provide defense to yet another IC, and then onto their way to even threaten the middle east with units that have began to filter in from combined UK/US Algeria landings

@Zhukov44:

If UK is pumping ipcs into South Asia it may provide Germany/Italy opportunities in Africa and Europe.

Yes, it would be somewhat of a fine Allied balance, but the US can help Africa landings easier than building a naval force strong enough the threaten the IJN.  Supporting Australia/India with fighters (see above), keeps $5 more in UK coffers (Australia/India) and the third NO out of japans hands.  That’s a $15 IPC swing that more than makes up for less pressence in Africa/Europe.

If Germany goes all armor, the Allies should be going for a very aggressive navy build in the Atlantic.  An Allies player that really pushes the pace can be making substantial threats on France and Germany by turn 3.  Even if Germany turtles on G3 and builds all defense, they will likely still lose France at the very least with such an aggressive build.  With Russia, you just need to play a little cautious.  I would recommend going defensive with your builds, and abandoning Karelia, pulling those units back to Archangel.  Even if you have to stack Moscow on R2 and leave Caucasus open, there’s no way that Germany can take Moscow on G3.  Once Germany starts having to play defense in France and Germany, Russia can start building tanks to push the unreinforced German line west.  It’s the beginning of the end for the Axis in Europe.

@Octopus:

Interesting topic (for it goes beyond the obvious).

I just finished a long game as the Axis and the potential to sink the Allied fleet was always on my mind. At one point I did pull it off and sink the British fleet after entering SZ 8. The kicker was the cost benefit of attacking the fleet that made it a no brainer. Fighters are worth 10 while cruisers are worth 12. Going 1 for 1 is a cost benefit. The Allied fleet’s cheapest unit defends the strongest (a fighter at a 4) meaning they will lose their cheapest units last and sacrafice their most expensive units early.

Keep in mind that bombers cost the same as a cruiser while having a higher attack value. The advantage goes to the airforce.

Having a fleet with 2 Cruisers, a battleship, and a carrier (with 2 fighters) is looking to get popped by an airforce that consists of fighters and bombers (assume comparable combat values). Economics demands it (especially if there are 4 juicy transports in tow).

To this end, I think the destroyer (cost of 8) is fantastic as a fighter/bomber eater as it will clearly take the fall for the more expensive ships that need to stay in the fight.

Good Luck!

Right.  Regardless of Capital ships the UK (or US) needs some DDs to shift the cost differential.  With 1 BB and maybe 2 DDs, you are only losing 16 ipcs for 3 hits while Germany would be losing 10 for each ftr.  I typically like to have just enough DDs + intial BB hits for the first wave of a potential G attack.  So 6 ftrs require 3 Allied DDs.  The good thing is you can split the cost of DDs between UK and US, meaning each could supply 1-2.  If you buy 1 AC, 1 CA, 1 DD on UK 1 and US follows with 1 AC, 1 DD on US 1, you probably won’t need another DD unless Germany makes a significant investment in more air.  In Rd 3 you can have a stacked Sz 6 fleet (additional UK3 buy if needed) and also enough to protect Sz 12 with the US ships.

It is beneficial to have a few US ships with firepower in Sz 6 (prior to moving to sz 5) if the Ita ftr is lingering around Fra.  A loaded US AC also gives the US some fighting power up north, even if you only get 1-2 trns up there it still helps and gives you some punch, but it is not enough of an investment to cripple you if you need to start spending in tha Pac or Afr.

@Lynxes:

I think DM is on the right track here, you need to have a core of your fleet in place early and then add DDs as fodder during the game. Getting caught having to buy expensive ships in mid-game when you should be pumping out land units that land in Europe is a bad idea. Also, you need a mix of high and low strength units. 1 CV+2 fig, 2 CA, 2-3 DDs is a nice fleet to have as UK and not too hard to reach. A CV is, as many have said, mandatory, having your fighters parked in UK is useless. And if you send fighters to Karelia, you should STILL buy a CV and put US or UK fighters on it.

Yes, it is a lot easier to find an extra 8 ipcs to buy a dd mid game then to worry about an AC buy.  Plus, if you have enough Capital ships early Germany usually won’t even bother contesting the Atlantic.

Of course everyone has their opinion on the best course of action to proceed with. The Brazilian IC is good but only works to help Africa which in my opinion should be UK’s job to defend. I have never had too much difficulty in stoping Axis advance into Africa with UK blocking just south of Egypt.
So in my opinion US has to tackle Japan as no one else really can, which means buying a fleet in the Pacific. Also they need to help against Germany which is buying a fleet in the Atlantic slowly increasing to prepare for D-Day on Germany.
These tactics have worked for me in previous games.

I think the transport that early is over kill.  The carrier, sure.  Carrier and Destroyer sure.  But you probably dont need the transport yet.  Germany 2 maybe.

Likewise the fighter.  If you go ground forces with the cash you are putting into Transport and Fighter, you’re talking 17 IPC or 4 Infantry, and an Armor…with which you can certainly use to fill holes that will appear in your front with Russia (or to liberate France if you let the Allies trade it for a round or two.)

I guess, 32 IPC in the water, might be better with Carrier, Cruiser, Submarine instead.  At least that is significant defensive punch (and you WILL have that submarine if England attacks round 1 (probably the SZ 5 starting one too) since England has nothing with which to attack SZ 5 that can hit submarines. )  And you’ll have significant offensive punch with 2 cruisers, 2 submarines, carrier, destroyer in whatever fighters you put on the carrier (thus allowing at least 4 fighters to hit SZ 2 on G2, probably a bomber as well.)

@Woodstock:

In Revised, the Indian IC pretty much always was a bad idea, as Japan could simply react on it on J1.

Unless playing minor victory (which is better balanced than major victory), wherein an Indian factory is essential.

@Woodstock:

And to get back on topic: I think the key difference here opposed to Revised is that in AA50, UK moves after Japan.
If Japan moves away from India, going for the China or Russian route, it might be very liable to buy an Indian IC at UK1.

In some ways, Japan going first hinders the Indian factory.  If UK went first, they might actually get to build in the IC before Japan can capture it.

@Nix:

Norway is very difficult to take back if lost.  The Allies could take it and keep it.

But 2 rtrn, and ac g1, then it will be hard for Brits to hold norway.

So you’d hold it (maybe - UK can build more planes in response), but this is becoming a very costly endeavor.  That’s 41 IPCs worth of income for the IC and ships.

You’re pitting Germany’s income more directly against the UK’s, a fight which Germany could potentially win, except that Russia is going to have a big edge in the Eastern Front.

I see it as this romania put it as a french complex more men can be made anyways taking karelia ipc will save time/money do the math 15 going a nother place i like that better