I thought the best strategy to counter KJF was to KRF with Germany, since the Allies are ignoring you.
What is your first buy as UK (assuming baltic carrier)
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That depends on what the Allies are doing with the Eastern Soviet forces, what UK is doing with their Indian/Pacific ships and their Indian forces, and most importantly if the US is abandoning the Pacific, doing an IC in Sinkiang, or doing a “Big Gulp” (though I do not advocate a Big Gulp anymore)…
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a Big Gulp??? :-)
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Big Gulp is the name given by Jeff Bone (the guy who taught me Classic back in college) to a massive US naval build up in the Pacific to go after Japan.
It was a huge build up of capital ships, subs, and loaded TRNs that moved out from Western US about Turn 4, and just raided Japan’s Pacific islands, destroyed the Jap fleet, and laid siege to Japan (and prevent Japan from transporting forces to Asia).
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Is that still viable/workable/thing that can be done in Revised now? Sounds interesting.
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It may be, in certain games. But the chances for success have been dramatically reduced for several reasons:
1. The much larger Japan fleet (and Naval AF) to start
2. The 20% increase in Japan starting income
3. The extra SZ’s in the Pacific.
4. The ability to build new naval units in enemy occupied sea zonesIn Revised you can no longer park a US fleet in 1 sea zone that encompasses Japan and prevent any and all naval builds. In Classic it was 1 sea zone, and you could NOT place newly built naval units in an enemy occupied sea zone. In Revised, there are 2 SZ’s around Japan, and you can place naval units even if there are 10 BB’s in the sea zone. Thus a simple fleet part at Japan does not create the complete isolation that it did in Classic.
Lastly, Classic had no IC build limits, so the most common strat was for Japan to just TRN everything from Tokyo, so if you blockaded Japan, they were DONE. In Revised, Japan most likely has multiple IC’s on the mainland that can continue to build troops to fight in Asia… and build up a new navy to move in to attack the Yanks, or bypass them and land in Los Angeles…
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You are missing the point Shadow Hawk.
In Classic it took only 1 ship surviving the Naval Battle to blockade Japan, Reinforcements could be sent in in only a couple of moves, and probably a few were already staged half way there. Japan’s ONLY option to attack those ships was air force, and FIGs were more expensive in Classic, and Japan had less income to start with.
There simply was no way for Japan to build enough FIGs fast enough to ever get ahead of US ships sailing across the Pacific.
But in Revised, that simply will not work. First off, the US is weaker against Japan than they were in Classic, so it takes longer for the US to build up a fleet that can chalenge Japan. Second, Japan has more income to start, and so can keep pace with the US easier. Third, to break Japan’s economic might, the US fleet can;t go straight for Japan, they ahve to go for the Islands first, giving Japan a chance to counter with sea AND land based air units. Fourth, if the US kills the Japan fleet with 1 ship left, Japan does not ahve to build FIGs to break the siege. They can build SUBs, perhaps a DST, and drop them right in the middle of the US ships. Now the US has to fight or flee. THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE IN CLASSIC.
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Once US has gained naval superiority it is basically over for Japan … the islands are gone that is 17 IPCs gone (assuming Aus,NZ,Haw) and if Japan has to defend the mainland coast thats a lot of coastline drawing away from the drive to Moscow and if Japan has enough forces to take Moscow and defend the coast they didn’t put enough into navy and its their own fault because they coulda seen it coming.
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Getting Naval Superiority in Revised is what is difficult… actually almost impossible… unless Japan allows it to happen.
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Depends on the game situation again.
for me and Darth’s game for example, were 16 turns into the game. Bit easier giving that length of time obviously to gain naval superiority.
I do not have it as of yet but thats only because I had 8-10 naval pieces in the atlantic and i got unlucky in the battle for the JAP Seazone. (11 fgts, 1 bmb, 3 subs, a BB, some AC’s and Trns only managed to get 4 hits on attack in round 1… :cry:
But once more Japan currently has 3 BB’s, 3 subs, 1 trn I currenttly have 10 trns, 3 subs, 1 DD, 2 AC’s left in the pacific.
Japan does not have a choice of letting it happen or not. They can delay the invetitable but not stop itI agree with you Switch for earlier on in games lets say the first 6-10ish turns yeah its definetly pretty impossible to get naval superiority unless you spend every dime and nickle in the pacific which I’m sure the Axis would be grateful for. Japan would slap some AC"s down for the land based fgts add a sub or two and it starts getting annoying fast
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And if they continue that build up, with TRNs in the mix for defensive fleet, they can still be working Asia and building up ships. They SHOULD end up ahead of the US in tersm of finances in a few turns, and form there the US should NEVER get superiority.
Or is there a problem in Germany that is not being mentioned?
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The problem is, everyone assumes America will attack the Japanese fleet.
If you are going to hit Japan with America, before Germany falls, you have GOT to convince them to attack you. Now their fighters are downgraded from '4’s to '3’s, their carriers from '3’s to '1’s and their transports nothing but torpedo shields.
Unfortunately, the only way to do that is to put such a mass of people on their islands that they have to attack you instead of wating for you to leave and then walk in behind you to reclaim them. And that’s probably not going to happen.
Otherwise, you face a Japan turtling on their island waiting for you to get frustrated and attack, giving them a huge advantage.
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Or a Japan with a fleet off Solomons that you either attack, or get pinched by a joint strike from Japan and Solomons…
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Go ahead and pinch me. I want Japan to attack the American fleet. You’ll have 1 BB, 3 Carriers, 6 Fighters, 6 Transports, 2 Submarines and 2-3 Destroyers to deal with. If you’ve matched that, after about 4-5 rounds, then you’re not doing so hot in Asia.
3 Carriers - 48
3 Fighters - 30
4 Transports - 32
2 Submarines - 16
1 Destroyer - 12Total Cost: 138 IPCs or, roughly about 4 rounds of income.
To defeat that you’ll need much more attack ships. At least a ton of submarines and that’ll chew up your available income to fight in Asia. At the very least, Russia has a good chance of taking the eastern seaboard a few times while you try to keep up with American production.
But then again, you have no real attack force with America. You have to hope Japan attacks you so you have the advantage, not him.
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a lot of those are already initially on the board though
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well with what I stated Below.
The US is making 40-44 a turn. Japan is making 34-38 a turn and already outnumbered. I don’t need anymore trns… The trns were there because Fleet A was suppose to WIN… but under favorable odds to win instead got crushed…
in this scenario Japan cannot fight ship to ship with the States. Especially If i just build lets say 5 subs a turn… mix some fgts eventually of course.
And Yeah UK is matching Germany unit for unit in the battle on the western-front.
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