Can the US have naval superiority?

[Guest]

If Russia is focussing THAT heavilly on Japan to prevent Japan from making progress, then Germany will be in Moscow on G4 ish.

[Guest]

@ncscswitch:

If Russia is focussing THAT heavilly on Japan to prevent Japan from making progress, then Germany will be in Moscow on G4 ish.

Russia’s objective is not to fight Japan.  Rather their objective is to be Stallin (pun intended) the Japanese forces as they attempt to enter deep into the Soviet Union.  2 inf at a time to go keep Japan occupied is enough to buy time and to let the US and UK mess up Germany bad.

[Guest]

2 INF won’t do it, not against the 11-14 units that Japan is sending toward Moscow starting in J3…

[Guest]

@ncscswitch:

2 INF won’t do it, not against the 11-14 units that Japan is sending toward Moscow starting in J3…

Im not saying USSR can do it by itself.  It is after all Axis and Allies.  :wink: US and UK intervention in Asia is needed for Russia to survive.

[Guest]

But the US is buildign Navy in the Pacific, and the UK is screwing around with a South Africa IC… that means that Russia is FRACKED.

[Axis4life]

The UK and US would have to either heavily reinforce Moscow or push hard in Western Europe to keep the Germans at bay.  Russia cannot take the chance of sending the bulk of their force east when all the early pressure comes from the west.

[Guest]

But tha tis not what Jen posted… she has the USA 100% against Japan in the Pacific in a Naval Showdown…

[Guest]

@ncscswitch:

But tha tis not what Jen posted… she has the USA 100% against Japan in the Pacific in a Naval Showdown…

If US is 100% against Japan in a naval showdown, then Russia is F’ed in the A.  Theres no way UK can help out Russia if Germany can wield all their navy against them.  Thats why US has to be balanced.  They can anyways, with all that cash.

[Axis4life]

I have been in many games where the US goes 100% Pacific and it never works out so well for Russia.  The UK loses control of the Africa quickly and if the US doesn’t help they don’t get it back.  Russia just can’t compete with Germany in production so if the US goes 100% Pacific then the bad guys win.

[Guest]

In most cases, I would have to agree.

KJF is POSSIBLE, but the risks are extremely high, and there is no room for error… or bad dice.

In fact, were you to establish a set of KJF House Rules… rules that required say 2/3 or more of US production went to the Pacific, then you would probably also need to institute an ALLED bid to keep the game even.

[newpaintbrush]

I would never try a KJF in Revised.  Japan’s navy is just too big.

If KJF strategy is used, Japan can see it coming a mile away, and it switches to infantry/artillery/fighter production instead of infantry/tanks.

If the US attacks early, the US has to overcome 2 battleships, 2 carriers, 5 transports, 7 fighters, and 1 bomber (possibly a destroyer too).  The ONLY thing Japan has to worry about is the location of the US transport.  Until the transport starts threatening (which won’t be for a couple of turns at least), Japan can focus on Asia.

if the US attacks late, the US has to overcome 2 battleships, 2 carriers, 5-6 transports, 1-2 destroyers, 1-4 subs, 10-12 fighters, and 1 bomber.  And this assumes most of the US is directed at Japan.  If the US even tries to divert to Africa, Japan will be just about impossible to take down.

[Jennifer]

I think you arn’t considering the attrition effects hard enough.

Yes, Japan with all her islands can do some serious damage to Asia to get massive cash flows.  But you take those 13 IPCs from her, and maybe get some Russian and British troops over there to help out in Asia and Japan’s fit to be hogtied and spanked like a girl pledging in a sorority.

Round 1 the US and Brition should secure Africa and build up a fleet (US) and an IC + Ships (UK)

Round 2 you start taking islands.  Sure, you’ll loose your transports to Jap subs, but he’ll have to move away from Japan, split his navy up, or give up those islands to stop you.  Any of the above plays into the hands of the allies since they can either clean up land and build a better fleet, take the jap fleet peicemeal or invade Asia/Japan (depending on defense forces.)

[Guest]

I REALLY wish I was not so backlogged on game comitments and that I did not have the Fall Tournament coming up… I’d LOVE to teach you a less Jen!

Join the Tournament!  Maybe I can do it there!  :mrgreen:

[trihero]

I think that there are some surprising KJF maneuvers that will trick even experienced players, but that ultimately once those little smokescreens have been seen once, they are rendered ineffective.

To let Germany go unhindered against Russia is much scarier than letting Japan going unhindered against Russia. Germany starts with more tanks on the board than all nations combined and has a 40 IPC income and is quite close to Russia, and can go into Africa easily. Normally Germany is on the defensive, but once it’s unleashed as in a KJF then things go downhill quickly.

The problems are these:

1. You cannot both pressure Japan adequately and stall Germany from Russia at the same time. It’s an either or situation. You can liberate Africa with US help, but doing so requires resources pulled away from Japan or requires the UK to do it on its own which is troublesome.
2. There’s absolutely nothing you can do to prevent Japan from dropping 3 full rounds of production along Russia’s northern border. Combined with the German squeeze from the left, Russia is quickly starved and hopeless while Japan is huddling safely on its island.
3. Grabbing Japanese islands hardly leads to a reasonably swift victory. What do you do with those IPCs? You still have to secure a way to produce land troops where it matters (shitloads of transports), and assaulting the Japanaese capital takes a very long time because it’s hard to attack an island that produces 8 units per turn.

A KJF leads to some surprising conclusions when the Japanese player hasn’t seen it all, but in every case Germany is still monstrous.

[Jennifer]

Ah, but you don’t really NEED to take Japan.  You can jsut surround it with a dominant fleet, take those pesky ICs on the mainland for America and build American units there.  With a secure Eastern Front in Russia the Allies are undeafetable, IMHO.

[trihero]

Ah, but you don’t really NEED to take Japan.  You can jsut surround it with a dominant fleet, take those pesky ICs on the mainland for America and build American units there.  With a secure Eastern Front in Russia the Allies are undeafetable, IMHO.

How long does this take to happen? 8-9 turns? The Eastern Front is already crashed with at least 3 full rounds of units being dumped into North Russia with nothing the US can do about it, and with Germany coming in hard from the West…

[Jennifer]

Tri:

With the right effort, it should take 3, maybe 4 turns to neutralize the Japanese fleet. (Neutralize means bottle them up where they can’t attack you and/or destroy them.)

Yea, 5 ACs with 10 fighters and 21 transports in two sea zones is gunna be a huge mess to clean up.  But offensively speaking, it’s nothing more than man made reefs waiting to be placed at the bottom of the ocean.

You take those islands, but a decent fleet around Japan to block them from retaking them.

Send in the Marines and some British infantry to attack SE Asia with some minor reinforcements from Russia and you can keep Japan down to 8-11 IPCs a turn.  That’s 1 or 2 infantry and a tank a round, not exactly a threat to an American IC stolen from Japan in Kwangtung and a British IC in India.

[Guest]

I really want to teach you a lesson on US naval fleets Jen.  Sign up for the Tournament!  :mrgreen:

And you REALLY should look at the game Ezto and I played.  Ezto when full-bore in the Pacific.  And Japan countered easilly.

[Axis4life]

I don’t see what purchases the US could make in 3 or 4 turns that couldn’t be countered by Japan.  Not only that but any US naval attack is telegraphed so Japan can also use their airforce.  What are your propsed purchases?

[newpaintbrush]

@ncscswitch:

I really want to teach you a lesson on US naval fleets Jen.  Sign up for the Tournament!  :mrgreen:

And you REALLY should look at the game Ezto and I played.  Ezto when full-bore in the Pacific.  And Japan countered easilly.

Them’s fightin’ words!

OOOOOOOOOOOO!!

Why not get TripleA, both you guys . . . it’s freeware . . .