1942.2 total vic. w/ int: Zombie69 (Axis) vs Commando Brado (Allies + 12)

[Zombie69]

#1). Fighter interceptors fire at 2, instead of 1 during SBR missions? This is different from Global.

Normally that would be the case, but TripleA doesn’t implement this correctly and uses the same rule as Global.

#2). IC’s can be built on any territory with an IPC value of 1, including islands? They are limited to producing the number of units based on the IPC value of the territory? This is also different from Global.

Indeed.

We’ll play Total Victory conditions. Also, I’m assuming we’re closing SZ16 to naval movement, correct?

I’ve never played with it closed but I don’t mind; I don’t think it changes much actually. In fact, I don’t even see an option in TripleA to make it closed.

One more question, does Gibraltar block movement into and out of the Med?

No, it doesn’t.

Also:

• You must uncheck Honorable Surrender, otherwise I don’t think it will be a total victory game (should have been three radio buttons, not check boxes).

• You’re not allowed to place your bid in SZ 12, because you don’t have anything there. You can however put that destroyer in SZ 11 and that will be enough for me not to attack it.

[Commando Brado]

Let’s play w/SZ16 being closed. I think that’s the way most people play. In Global it’s closed unless you conquer Turkey or Turkey is allied w/your side. For fighter interceptors, let’s roll these battles on the Forum. Are you familiar with how to do that? I would really like to play w/Interceptors are 2, since this is how the rules work. We can make any edits via Edit Mode. I will change the US DD from SZ12 to SZ11. I know there are two different bid rules you can play with. In Global, most players allow you to put your bids in territories or SZ’s, where you don’t have units but no worries. I’ll change it. For me to uncheck Honorable Surrender, it appears I have to start a new game file. I don’t see a way to do it with the current game. I’ll keep the same dice and will make the edits in Edit Mode and complete my non-combat moves and upload the file.

[Commando Brado]

Test summary from TripleA, engine version: 1.8.0.3, time: 22:55:26

[Commando Brado]

The FTR from Karelia that participated in the battle in W. Russia will land in Ukraine.

[Commando Brado]

Sorry. Caucasus, not Ukraine.

[Commando Brado]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II v5 1942 Second Edition, version: 1.9

Game History

Round: 1

Purchase Units - Russians
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from Ukraine S.S.R.: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from Ukraine S.S.R.: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from Ukraine S.S.R.: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from Ukraine S.S.R.: 1 artillery
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from Ukraine S.S.R.: 1 armour
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from Ukraine S.S.R.: 1 fighter
            EDIT: Changing ownership of Ukraine S.S.R. from Germans to Russians
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Caucasus: 1 armour
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Caucasus: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Caucasus: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Caucasus: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Caucasus: 1 artillery
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Russians to Ukraine S.S.R.: 3 armour, 1 artillery and 1 infantry
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from West Russia: 1 armour
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from West Russia: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from West Russia: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from West Russia: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from West Russia: 1 artillery
            EDIT: Changing ownership of West Russia from Germans to Russians
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Karelia S.S.R.: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Karelia S.S.R.: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Karelia S.S.R.: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Karelia S.S.R.: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Karelia S.S.R.: 1 artillery
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Karelia S.S.R.: 1 fighter
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Archangel: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Archangel: 1 armour
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Russia: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Russia: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Russia: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Russia: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Russia: 1 artillery
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Russia: 1 armour
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Russia: 1 armour
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Russians to West Russia: 1 armour, 2 artilleries and 4 infantry
            EDIT: Changing PUs for Russians from 24 to 25
            EDIT: Adding units owned by British to Egypt: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Americans to 11 Sea Zone: 1 destroyer
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            Russians buy 1 artillery and 7 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Non Combat Move - Russians
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Russians to Caucasus: 1 bomber
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            1 aaGun moved from Caucasus to West Russia
            1 aaGun moved from Russia to West Russia
            1 fighter moved from Russia to Egypt
            1 submarine moved from 4 Sea Zone to 7 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Buryatia S.S.R. to Yakut S.S.R.
            1 infantry moved from Buryatia S.S.R. to Yakut S.S.R.
            1 infantry moved from Soviet Far East to Yakut S.S.R.
            1 infantry moved from Soviet Far East to Yakut S.S.R.
            1 infantry moved from Kazakh S.S.R. to Caucasus

Place Units - Russians
            1 artillery and 3 infantry placed in Caucasus
            4 infantry placed in Russia

Turn Complete - Russians
            Russians collect 28 PUs; end with 28 PUs total

Territory Summary for Russians :

7 Sea Zone : 1 submarine
    Caucasus : 1 artillery, 1 bomber, 1 factory and 4 infantry
    Egypt : 1 fighter
    Evenki National Okrug : 2 infantry
    Karelia S.S.R. : 1 factory
    Novosibirsk : 1 infantry
    Russia : 1 factory and 4 infantry
    Ukraine S.S.R. : 1 flag, 3 armour, 1 artillery and 1 infantry
    West Russia : 1 flag, 2 aaGuns, 1 armour, 2 artilleries and 4 infantry
    Yakut S.S.R. : 5 infantry

Production/PUs Summary :

Russians : 28 / 28
    Germans : 37 / 41
    British : 31 / 31
    Japanese : 30 / 30
    Americans : 42 / 42

[Zombie69]

@Commando:

I would really like to play w/Interceptors are 2, since this is how the rules work. We can make any edits via Edit Mode.

It would be a little complicated because in 1942.2, losses taken by the defender don’t shoot back during the interception phase. We could play that way anyway if you want, using edit mode. No need to roll on the forums, just use the same rolls made in game, but on a 2, delete an attacking plane and if it was a bomber, delete its SBR damage (the last SBR die rolled).

For the SZ closed, can planes still move through? I assume they can.

[Zombie69]

And remember that carriers have only one hit!

[Zombie69]

TripleA Move Summary for game: World War II v5 1942 Second Edition, version: 1.9

Game History

Round: 1

Purchase Units - Germans
            Germans buy 1 artillery and 3 bombers; Remaining resources: 1 PUs;

Combat Move - Germans
            1 submarine moved from 9 Sea Zone to 10 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 9 Sea Zone to 14 Sea Zone
            1 battleship moved from 15 Sea Zone to 14 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Italy to 15 Sea Zone
            1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 15 Sea Zone to 14 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from 14 Sea Zone to Gibraltar
            1 infantry moved from Finland to Karelia S.S.R.
                  Germans take Karelia S.S.R. from Russians
            2 infantry moved from Poland to Ukraine S.S.R.
            2 infantry moved from Bulgaria Romania to Ukraine S.S.R.
            1 infantry moved from Belorussia to Ukraine S.S.R.
            1 fighter moved from Poland to Ukraine S.S.R.
            1 fighter moved from Bulgaria Romania to Ukraine S.S.R.
            1 fighter moved from Germany to Ukraine S.S.R.
            1 fighter moved from Norway to 7 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Northwestern Europe to 7 Sea Zone
            2 submarines moved from 5 Sea Zone to 7 Sea Zone
            1 cruiser moved from 5 Sea Zone to 7 Sea Zone
            1 bomber moved from Germany to Ukraine S.S.R.

[Zombie69]

In SZ 7, I don’t know if you want to submerge your sub right away, fight for one round and submerge, or what. So the easiest for me is to let you roll that battle yourself and then you can send me the new save file!

[Commando Brado]

@Zombie69:

And remember that carriers have only one hit!

Yes, got that.

[Commando Brado]

@Zombie69:

@Commando:

I would really like to play w/Interceptors are 2, since this is how the rules work. We can make any edits via Edit Mode.

It would be a little complicated because in 1942.2, losses taken by the defender don’t shoot back during the interception phase. We could play that way anyway if you want, using edit mode. No need to roll on the forums, just use the same rolls made in game, but on a 2, delete an attacking plane and if it was a bomber, delete its SBR damage (the last SBR die rolled).

For the SZ closed, can planes still move through? I assume they can.

Defending Interceptors don’t fire back if they’re hit during the Interception phase?

And yes, planes can use SZ16 as a valid space for movement purposes. It’s just naval units that can’t move in or out. But, naval units can be built in SZ16, if you have an IC in Bulgaria/Romania, Ukraine or Caucasus.

[Zombie69]

No, in 1942.2, they can’t hit back if they’re destroyed (just like hits made by subs). Of course, since TripleA only implements Global rules for interceptors, it doesn’t take that into account.

[Commando Brado]

Well, that’s a stupid rule. Let’s roll any SBR runs that have potential Interceptor battles via the Forum. We can post the combat movement for them via the Forum, before we roll the other battles. Then, roll the battles on the Forum before the other battles are rolled via TripleA. Then, make the edits using the Edit Mode. Sound good?

I’ll submerge the Russian Sub. I’ll let you roll the battles. I don’t want to take that pleasure away from you…  :-D

[Zombie69]

It’s not a stupid rule, it prevents defensive fighters from being too good. With Global rules, in order to have the same number of losses on average for the attacker and defender, you need to bring 1 plane for every defending plane. In 1942.2, with defenders hitting on a 2 but not hitting at all if destroyed, you need to bring 3 attackers for every 2 defenders. Without this, you’d need to bring 2 for 1, which would be overpowered for the defender in my opinion.

I don’t know why you insist on rolling them in the forum though. Like I said, it will be easier to let TripleA roll them and just adjust accordingly whenever an attacker made a hit or a defender rolled a 2. TripleA shows you the dice results, so it should be very easy to adjust whenever this happens. I’ll finish my turn and send you a save.

[Zombie69]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II v5 1942 Second Edition, version: 1.9

Game History

Round: 1

Purchase Units - Germans
            Germans buy 1 artillery and 3 bombers; Remaining resources: 1 PUs;

Combat Move - Germans
            1 submarine moved from 9 Sea Zone to 10 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 9 Sea Zone to 14 Sea Zone
            1 battleship moved from 15 Sea Zone to 14 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Italy to 15 Sea Zone
            1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 15 Sea Zone to 14 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from 14 Sea Zone to Gibraltar
            1 infantry moved from Finland to Karelia S.S.R.
                  Germans take Karelia S.S.R. from Russians
            2 infantry moved from Poland to Ukraine S.S.R.
            2 infantry moved from Bulgaria Romania to Ukraine S.S.R.
            1 infantry moved from Belorussia to Ukraine S.S.R.
            1 fighter moved from Poland to Ukraine S.S.R.
            1 fighter moved from Bulgaria Romania to Ukraine S.S.R.
            1 fighter moved from Germany to Ukraine S.S.R.
            1 fighter moved from Norway to 7 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Northwestern Europe to 7 Sea Zone
            2 submarines moved from 5 Sea Zone to 7 Sea Zone
            1 cruiser moved from 5 Sea Zone to 7 Sea Zone
            1 bomber moved from Germany to Ukraine S.S.R.

Combat - Germans
            Battle in 10 Sea Zone
                Germans attack with 1 submarine
                British defend with 1 destroyer and 1 transport
                Germans win with 1 submarine remaining. Battle score for attacker is 15
                Casualties for British: 1 destroyer and 1 transport
            Battle in 14 Sea Zone
                Germans attack with 1 battleship, 1 submarine and 1 transport
                British defend with 1 cruiser
                Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the Germans
                Germans win with 1 battleship, 1 submarine and 1 transport remaining. Battle score for attacker is 12
                Casualties for British: 1 cruiser
            Battle in Gibraltar
            Battle in 7 Sea Zone
                Germans attack with 1 cruiser, 2 fighters and 2 submarines
                Russians defend with 1 submarine; British defend with 1 battleship and 1 transport
                1 submarine owned by the Russians Submerged
                Germans win, taking Gibraltar from British with 2 fighters and 2 submarines remaining. Battle score for attacker is 15
                Casualties for Germans: 1 cruiser
                Casualties for British: 1 battleship and 1 transport
            Battle in Ukraine S.S.R.
                Germans attack with 1 bomber, 3 fighters and 5 infantry
                Russians defend with 3 armour, 1 artillery and 1 infantry
                Germans win, taking Ukraine S.S.R. from Russians with 1 bomber, 3 fighters and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 13
                Casualties for Germans: 4 infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 3 armour, 1 artillery and 1 infantry

Non Combat Move - Germans
            2 infantry moved from Finland to Karelia S.S.R.
            1 infantry moved from Baltic States to Karelia S.S.R.
            1 infantry moved from Belorussia to Karelia S.S.R.
            1 armour moved from Baltic States to Karelia S.S.R.
            1 armour moved from Poland to Karelia S.S.R.
            2 armour moved from Germany to Karelia S.S.R.
            1 infantry moved from Northwestern Europe to 5 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Norway to 5 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from 5 Sea Zone to Karelia S.S.R.
            1 infantry moved from Norway to Finland
            3 infantry moved from Germany to Baltic States
            1 armour moved from Bulgaria Romania to Baltic States
            1 armour moved from Italy to Baltic States
            2 armour moved from France to Baltic States
            1 armour moved from Northwestern Europe to Baltic States
            1 infantry moved from Southern Europe to Bulgaria Romania
            1 artillery moved from Southern Europe to Bulgaria Romania
            1 infantry moved from France to Germany
            1 armour moved from Libya to Algeria
            1 infantry moved from Libya to Algeria
            1 infantry moved from Morocco to Algeria
            2 fighters moved from 7 Sea Zone to Northwestern Europe
            1 aaGun moved from France to Northwestern Europe
            1 fighter moved from Ukraine S.S.R. to Northwestern Europe
            1 fighter moved from Ukraine S.S.R. to Northwestern Europe
            1 fighter moved from Ukraine S.S.R. to Germany
            1 bomber moved from Ukraine S.S.R. to Northwestern Europe
            1 aaGun moved from Italy to Germany
            1 aaGun moved from Germany to Baltic States

Place Units - Germans
            1 artillery placed in Italy
            3 bombers placed in Germany

Turn Complete - Germans
            Germans collect 41 PUs; end with 42 PUs total
            1 unit repaired.

[Zombie69]

Normally I buy 11 INF and 2 ART with Germany round 1, but considering all the stuff you brought to Ukraine plus all the losses you took in West Russia, I decided it was time to go on the offensive and buy 3 bombers!

[Commando Brado]

@Zombie69:

It’s not a stupid rule, it prevents defensive fighters from being too good. With Global rules, in order to have the same number of losses on average for the attacker and defender, you need to bring 1 plane for every defending plane. In 1942.2, with defenders hitting on a 2 but not hitting at all if destroyed, you need to bring 3 attackers for every 2 defenders. Without this, you’d need to bring 2 for 1, which would be overpowered for the defender in my opinion.

I don’t know why you insist on rolling them in the forum though. Like I said, it will be easier to let TripleA roll them and just adjust accordingly whenever an attacker made a hit or a defender rolled a 2. TripleA shows you the dice results, so it should be very easy to adjust whenever this happens. I’ll finish my turn and send you a save.

I think it should be harder for SBR runs. Historically and realistically, it is harder to defend bombers against attacking fighters. SBR’s shouldn’t get to attack at one, as historically they shot down very few fighters. It was the defending fighters that shot down most attacking fighters when they were defending the bombers. I get what you’re saying from a game play stand point. However, I think SBR runs should be harder if there are defending fighters involved.

Just seems like rolling via the Forum would be safer and easier. Sorry. I’m a long time Forum player.  :-P

[Commando Brado]

@Zombie69:

Normally I buy 11 INF and 2 ART with Germany round 1, but considering all the stuff you brought to Ukraine plus all the losses you took in West Russia, I decided it was time to go on the offensive and buy 3 bombers!

I’m sure your strategy will seal my doom very soon!  :evil:

[Zombie69]

Well, if you don’t like the rules, take your issue with the developers! I don’t know why they decided to make it so lost fighters don’t fire back. Maybe it’s to simulate fighters caught off guard and shot down on the airstrip before they could take to the air. Who knows…

All I know is that I like the rule as it allows for just the right amount of defense against SBR, without making it downright impossible to SBR at all. I think it gets the balance just right.