Japan-Soviet Non-Aggression-Pact

[ll Duce]

You can do it, but by the time you turn to China, you’ll have a bitch of a fight.  China may not look tough, but the simple fact they can drop Infantry ANYWHERE in china means you’ll be playing whack a mole for a while.  All the while… the US will be gearing up… so again… same problem applies.

[Koningstiger]

I think a previous poster made a great suggestion by saying that Japan and/or Russia should have had a national objective for not attacking one another. This should have been the case esp. for Japan. Then again, Of course all their actual NOs are in the Pacific. Directing too many forces to Russia will make it harder for them to achieve those. On the other hand, it’s almost impossible for Japan to simply ignore the 18 infantry on their doorstep. Especially once the Soviets get some air support to the region, it becomes a huge threat!

[SilverAngelSurfer]

It is a threat, especially if Russia flies some bombers over, but it is a threat with no backup.  With the rest of the Soviet army several turns away, once you take 18 hits you’re done.  So Russia has to be careful that while it is distracting Japan to win the Battle of the Pacific it doesn’t end up losing the war.

[Fighter212]

how about a penalty to one or both of them
eather the won that declares war or both of them could be penalized when they are at war
take away five ipc untill one of them losses thier capital

[maverick_76]

@SAS:

It is a threat, especially if Russia flies some bombers over, but it is a threat with no backup.  With the rest of the Soviet army several turns away, once you take 18 hits you’re done.  So Russia has to be careful that while it is distracting Japan to win the Battle of the Pacific it doesn’t end up losing the war.

Does the free 2 inf. per turn rule for Russia apply in the Global game? If so then you could get much more than just 18 hits……

[calvinhobbesliker]

@maverick_76:

@SAS:

It is a threat, especially if Russia flies some bombers over, but it is a threat with no backup.  With the rest of the Soviet army several turns away, once you take 18 hits you’re done.  So Russia has to be careful that while it is distracting Japan to win the Battle of the Pacific it doesn’t end up losing the war.

Does the free 2 inf. per turn rule for Russia apply in the Global game? If so then you could get much more than just 18 hits……

No, it doesn’t

[Dylan the Canadian]

@Fighter212:

how about a penalty to one or both of them
eather the won that declares war or both of them could be penalized when they are at war
take away five ipc untill one of them losses thier capital

Yes that’s true and your air force can be split up half to Pacific half to Asia, it can move in an unstoppable force.

[shohoku201]

As Japan I would attack Russia for a few reasons:

1. J1 attack on UK, ANZAC, and USA will hurt other Axis in Global so Japan shouldn’t attack on J1 or even J2 (depending on situation).  Other than China and French Indo China, Japan needs other sources of IPC and that would be Russia.

2. by going on the offensive against Russia, Japan can bring to bear the full force of their airforce and even navy.  even facing a stack of 18 infantry and maybe one fighter, japan can destroy this force with about 10 land units and most of their planes.

3. by eliminating this stack (or two smaller stacks), Russia will be empty in the east and Japan can then turn most of their forces south and reposition for a J3 attack.

[marechallannes]

Who guarantees you a victory over 18 russian infs without loosing vital airplanes?

[Commander JayVon]

As the Japanese player, if I saw the Soviet player begin to move its stacks into Amur during R1, a preemptive attack there on J1 would be assured. The airpower from Manchuria and Japan, coupled with land and amphibious assualt, would prove devasting for the Soviets. Granted, casualties will be high, but I can imagine the Japanese exhausting their land forces before touching the air support.                          The Russian player will need to seize the moment and be extremely resourceful in the Pacific.

[shohoku201]

from what I remember

Japan can send

4 bombers, 11 fighters, 8 tactical bombers, 3 artillery, 5 infantry and 1 mechanized infantry.  that’s if japan decides to send all that it can to an amur stack of 18 infantry and maybe 1 fighter.  add 1 battleship and 2 cruiser for bombardment, the first round hit at average would be 17.7 hits vs Russia’s 6.7 hits.

[maverick_76]

That might be a viable strategy to look into, the good ol’ Japan push into Russia. Who knows, if they can do that it would definitely help Germany, but you also would be sacrificing the Pacific to the US and losing your NO bonuses for the islands. Risky but sounding like a sensible angle to take.

[Dylan the Canadian]

@shohoku201:

As Japan I would attack Russia for a few reasons:

1. J1 attack on UK, ANZAC, and USA will hurt other Axis in Global so Japan shouldn’t attack on J1 or even J2 (depending on situation).  Other than China and French Indo China, Japan needs other sources of IPC and that would be Russia.

2. by going on the offensive against Russia, Japan can bring to bear the full force of their airforce and even navy.  even facing a stack of 18 infantry and maybe one fighter, japan can destroy this force with about 10 land units and most of their planes.

3. by eliminating this stack (or two smaller stacks), Russia will be empty in the east and Japan can then turn most of their forces south and reposition for a J3 attack.

I like that idea, bit do you need to do that, like what happens if you can’t get them out quick enough and everything else could be bad.

[purplebaron]

The Japanese can definitely squish the Russians if they’re foolish enough to stack all 18 troops on the border.  I think the key will be to hold them back one space.  That way, you’re immune to attack, but you still perform your primary task of holding Japanese troops and planes at the border.

It’s much like Sea Lion.  Barring a serious luck imbalance, the Germans can’t succeed at Sea Lion unless the Brits are foolish enough to let them, but threatening it allows you to force the Brits to react to it and constrain their options.  Similarly, Russia can’t successfully attack Japan if Japan chooses to defend its border, but holding back all of those units is a significant cost for Japan.

[Funcioneta]

The truh is that Japan and USSR start the game at war. Maybe the rules say other thing, but if USSR doesn’t want take Persia or aid China (USSR1 attack), they have two choices: retreat all to Buryatia or send some forces to Amur and try annoy Manchuria & Korea. First case, Japan will send one inf to Amur to start picking siberian IPCs; second case, Japan will toast any forces that USSR send to Amur with few losses … specially if soviets send the whole 18 infs, because then Japan cannot ignore them

Even if you don’t attack, you cannot know if the other side will do so and you have to plan this way … exactly like UK cannot know for sure if Italy is going to attack Egypt or not. Larry could claim that Italy and UK are not at war at start of game (without giving them any non-agression rule) and still they would attack round 1 (in fact, if the game starts at May 1940, Italy and UK should not be at war yet) :wink:

[calvinhobbesliker]

@Funcioneta:

The truh is that Japan and USSR start the game at war. Maybe the rules say other thing, but if USSR doesn’t want take Persia or aid China (USSR1 attack), they have two choices: retreat all to Buryatia or send some forces to Amur and try annoy Manchuria & Korea. First case, Japan will send one inf to Amur to start picking siberian IPCs; second case, Japan will toast any forces that USSR send to Amur with few losses … specially if soviets send the whole 18 infs, because then Japan cannot ignore them

Even if you don’t attack, you cannot know if the other side will do so and you have to plan this way … exactly like UK cannot know for sure if Italy is going to attack Egypt or not. Larry could claim that Italy and UK are not at war at start of game (without giving them any non-agression rule) and still they would attack round 1 (in fact, if the game starts at May 1940, Italy and UK should not be at war yet) :wink:

Don’t forget taking Iraq before Italy can.

[finnman]

Guys remember as soon as Russia takes manchuria China can build infantry there and Russia could move there infantry too Korea, and if Germany’s not planning a barborosa Build a minor IC

[McMan]

@finnman:

Guys remember as soon as Russia takes manchuria China can build infantry there and Russia could move there infantry too Korea, and if Germany’s not planning a barborosa Build a minor IC

What else would Germany be doing :?

[calvinhobbesliker]

@McMan:

@finnman:

Guys remember as soon as Russia takes manchuria China can build infantry there and Russia could move there infantry too Korea, and if Germany’s not planning a barborosa Build a minor IC

What else would Germany be doing :?

Sealion

[McMan]

From that other thread, it seems like Sealion is not a hugely promising prospect.