Karelian Complex… dumb question

[EmuGod]

Japan is a very sad case of history. They had huge divisions among their navy and army over their expansion and their military and navy sizes. It’s probably one of the greatest ironies that the commander in chief of the Imperial Japanese Navy, Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, was against the war with America and against the attack on Pearl Harbor which he planned. He was assassinated by the Americans, under orders from Roosevelt himself. That is why some people say Japan has never formally apologized ot the United States, because they assassinated Yamamoto. YEt he wantedpeace between America and Japan. Very sad, in my opinion.

[cystic crypt]

@EmuGod:

Japan is a very sad case of history. They had huge divisions among their navy and army over their expansion and their military and navy sizes. It’s probably one of the greatest ironies that the commander in chief of the Imperial Japanese Navy, Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, was against the war with America and against the attack on Pearl Harbor which he planned. He was assassinated by the Americans, under orders from Roosevelt himself. That is why some people say Japan has never formally apologized ot the United States, because they assassinated Yamamoto. YEt he wantedpeace between America and Japan. Very sad, in my opinion.

interesting. I understand he was American trained - at Harvard.

[EmuGod]

Partly, yes he was. He loved Abraham Lincoln, maybe because they had a lot in common. They were both from poor families. Even their houses were similar. He told his superiors that he could keep the Americans running for 6 months to a year but after that their superior economic power would enable them to defeat Japan. When the attack was ordered, he said that he sees Tokyo burning three times over, Japan reduced to ashes and himself dying in battle. He’s a very interesting person. He developed the most powerful fighter in the world at the time, the Mistubishi Zero Fighter and he was one of the few military men who saw the carrier as more powerful than the battleship.

[TG Moses VI]

As far as “nationality” is concerned, it has only a very very minor role in my A & A games. By the same token, when I play Silent Hunter II, do I enjoy seeing “American” ships sink? HELL YEAH! But its not real and that makes all the difference. I can have a lot of fun in A & A playing Germany, Japan, or USSR–all countries that, in the early 1940s, were detestable places. If playing Japan makes me feel like a tough guy–sure, thats cool–but fortunately its just a game. If it were real–I’d have a lot more to think about. Even as an American I don’t know if I could, say, sink a Japanese sub and cause the horrible deaths of dozens of men. I just don’t know if I could do it. But since in the game its just plastic pieces–let’s sink 'em!

I like this. It says a lot. When in real life, I would regret having to fight against a fellow man, but if it’s plastic pieces - Get ready for War! :wink:

I agree w/ TG that the Pacific theater often is not showcased enough in standard A & A.

Not just in A&A, but in life in general. Compare the amount of coverage the Pacific gets compared to the Europe in terms of movies, media coverage, games, text, and the like. Interesting considering the war in the Pacific was much more intense.

He was assassinated by the Americans, under orders from Roosevelt himself.

I’m not exactly sure about this, as the “assassination” wasn’t as planned out.

That is why some people say Japan has never formally apologized ot the United States, because they assassinated Yamamoto.

Again, I’m not exactly sure about this. I don’t think Japan was ever able to find out the Americans knew who was aboard that plane.

[EmuGod]

Actually, the Americans knew EXACTLY who was on the plane. Pearl Harbor had intercepted and decoded a Jaapnese mssage that outlined Admiral Yamamoto’s exact itinerary for his trip. The attack was meant to have him assassinated. It served no other purpose because there was no need to send that many P58s to dogifght against numerically inferior Japanese fighters. He was the main target. Another Japanese officer, in the plane behnd, made a full description of the attack and how the American fighters fiercely concetrated on Yamamoto’s plane.

[Ansbach]

@EmuGod:

Actually, the Americans knew EXACTLY who was on the plane. Pearl Harbor had intercepted and decoded a Jaapnese mssage that outlined Admiral Yamamoto’s exact itinerary for his trip. The attack was meant to have him assassinated. It served no other purpose because there was no need to send that many P58s to dogifght against numerically inferior Japanese fighters. He was the main target. Another Japanese officer, in the plane behnd, made a full description of the attack and how the American fighters fiercely concetrated on Yamamoto’s plane.

I can confirm having read the same thing - they intercepted a message, knew where he would be, and went after him. Of course at the time the Americans didn’t know that he was almost considered “pro-American” - he was the Main Bad Guy. Just another irony of the war I guess.

[EmuGod]

He was also the only enemy commander to be assassinated in the entire war. The commander at Pearl Harbor who intercepted the message, Admiral Nimitz, didn’t feel it was quite right to go after an enemy commander and kill him, so he asked Admiral Halsey for a second opinion. Halsey said that Yamamoto should be ambushed, but Nimitz wasn’t convinced so he asked Admiral King for another opinion and got the same result as when he asked Halsey. So he finally passed it on to the Secretary of the Navy Frank Knox, who sent it to President Roosevelt, who ordered the ambush.

[bangalore]

Now, were there any other attempts on high level commanders during the war? I guess Yam. just pulled the short straw! Poor guy, from what I know about Pearl Harbor & such he was just doing what he was told, correct? Kind of like a Gen. Lee, very brilliant, just on the losing side. :(

[TG Moses VI]

Now, were there any other attempts on high level commanders during the war? I guess Yam. just pulled the short straw! Poor guy, from what I know about Pearl Harbor & such he was just doing what he was told, correct? Kind of like a Gen. Lee, very brilliant, just on the losing side.

Correct… Yamamato was merely fullfilling his obligation to his country and to his Emperor, which is sort of like Gen. Lee. Lincoln originally wanted Lee as his General of Grand Army on the Potomac, but Lee turned him down, knowing his destiny was with his homeland. Only thing was that Lee survived the war.

Actually, the Americans knew EXACTLY who was on the plane.

This is true, though the interception of radio communications happened more by chance. It wasn’t since Day 1, America was out to get Yamamato. It was more like the Americans had an opportunity to nab Yamamato and went for it.

 Now, were there any other attempts on high level commanders during the war?

Quite many in fact. If memory serves my right, almost every high ranking officer had a double: Eisenhower, Hitler, and many others. This was to help prevent any attacks on them, such as at public events. In fact, they even made a movie on Monty’s double!

[cystic crypt]

well, don’t forget about Heydrich (sorry if i got the name wrong) - assassinated by those 3 Czech freedom fighters. His resulted in the destruction of the town of Lidice: murder of several hundred Jews in concentration camps (oooo . . . good excuse!!) followed by another 3000 when Heydrich finally died, arbitrary shooting of Czech families accused of aiding in the assassination, 200 males (all of them) in Lidice lined up and shot, and the women and cildren sent to concentration camps - the village was bulldozed and crops planted on the site. The assassins were betrayed by a man haunted by the reprisals.

[Rommel34]

He’s a very interesting person. He developed the most powerful fighter in the world at the time, the Mistubishi Zero Fighter

Something interesting on that. I was at an air museam once and the guide told us that a man (unfortunatly i cant rember his name) from america came up with a basic plan for a fast fighter plane. He brought it to the pentagon and they regected it. The man then went to Japan and gave the plan to Yamoto. That plane became the Zero

[EmuGod]

Interesting, I know that Yamamoto developed the Zero and other state of the art planes such as the Nakajima, but I’ve never heard that sotyr beofre.

About him being n the losing side, well that’s mainly the Japanese army and government’s fault. Yamamoto wasn’t even allowed to select the officers for his missions. He had strongly objected to the admiral who had been put in charge of the Pearl Harbor raid, Admiral Nagumo. He knew from the beginning that Nagumo would screw up, and he even did. He left the carriers at Pearl Harbor and did not finish the job. Nagumo also screwed up at Midway and at Guadalcanal. After Midway, Yamamoto even told the government that the Americans had broken the Japanese code but the government refused to believe it. Had he been allowed to run the navy the way he wanted, he could have very easily been on the “winning” side. The Allies were very lucky in the Pacific. They were lucky that the Japanese army and navy had many quarrels and that the commander in chief of the navy, Admiral Yamamoto, was not liked for his view that war with America and Britain was impossible.

[Xi]

RUNENZORN,

If you ever come back or use Notify at the bottom of post,

I once heard from a German that you have a quaint custom. When someone sneezes twice you respond with a normal comment(same both times).Then on the third sneeze the reponse is “May you burst!” (“Zum voltzheim!” or something like that). I was a little kid, then so, he most likely was having some fun with the gullible American child.
If I’m wrong, how do you say “May you burst!”? :D
–-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks, the Stupid American :lol:

[Guest]

@Xi:

I once heard from a German that you have a quaint custom. When someone sneezes twice you respond with a normal comment(same both times).Then on the third sneeze the reponse is “May you burst!” (“Zum voltzheim!” or something like that). I was a little kid, then so, he most likely was having some fun with the gullible American child.
If I’m wrong, how do you say “May you burst!”?

Hmm……
I think someone tried to bs you :).
After the first sneeze we usually say something like “(To your) health”.
“May you burst” and “Zum whatsoever” is unknown to me, and it doesn#t sound like one is the translation of the other.
“Zum” is an abbreviated form of the 3rd case of “to the”.
“Voltzheim” does not make sense at all :)

So, i can’t help, but maybe Runenyorn or FinsterniS know about that one.

[Guest]

That was me, Falk

[Runenzorn]

Hi everybody or should I say
" Guten Tag " to teach a bit german habits ;).
I came to the forum almost everyday, but I was overwhelmed by a discussion about assassinations so that I couldn’t partake. Moreover, I’m very astonished about the evolution a topic called “Karelian complex” can have :o .
Finally I go right in the middle of talking about german customs.
I think you mean " Zum Wohlsein", it’s almost the same when anglosaxon people take glasses and say “cheers”.
We intend with “Wohlsein” that the sneezer has to recover from his sneeze, the same like cheers? I don’t know…. :cry:
Now I have a question for you. What the hell is the meaning of " You’re welcome…" Everytime I enterd and left a shop or asked someone something he replied those two words - actually three. Does it mean that I’m welcome to him to talk about my diseases, pain and all other problems. :wink:
In Germany we aren’t that encouraged and that friendly towards eachother, it is more a sober way of living together. Germans use those nice phrases more economically, for example if a German says “You’re welcome, Sie sind willkommen”, he means this exactly in regard of all the consequences that the addresse can make use of.

So far so good and have a great time :D

Runenzorn

[Guest]

A quick note. . . Howard Hughes was the man responsible for the design of the Zero. It is an intersting story. Air cooled engine instead of liquid cooled allowed for better fighting and diving.

[Zax]

“Not just in A&A, but in life in general. Compare the amount of coverage the Pacific gets compared to the Europe in terms of movies, media coverage, games, text, and the like. Interesting considering the war in the Pacific was much more intense.”

-TG Moses VI

Ah true. But you are thinking of it in the broad spectrum of the war in general. There are tons of movies out there about both theaters of war. The thing is, most movies about Europe cover the war there in general (not necessarily the entire war, but large chunks of it covering many battles). Movies about the Pacific usually focus on one or two, maybe three specific battles. Therefore, because Europe is given a wider span of battles, it always seems like the Pacific is left out, when in truth movies about the Pacific are a lot more specific to a certain battle or two.