Various Transport Questions



  • Da Rules say: If moved in the combat movement part of your turn, transports are usually involved in an amphibious assault….In this type of attack, the transport’s mission is to drop off land units to the embattles territory. If the territory’s adjacent sea zone is patrolled by enemy ships, the transport cannot move there to drop off troops and tanks. Friendly naval and air units must attack this sea zone first and clear the way before the transport can enter it to drop off cargo.

    I find this passage confusing. It seems like it’s saying that Combat Movement may take place after Combat has been staged. Does this rule really mean that the transport must wait until the next round to complete the amphibious assault, or does it proceed immediately after the sea zone is cleared?

    On a related note, can Russia place its initial transport in the Baltic Sea zone, since that would technically put it in combat with Germany’s ships? Can the sub go to the Baltic if Russia is restricted?

    What about these scenarios - Japan wishes to retake Manchuria from some Ally.

    1. Japan moves its empty transport from the Phillipine Islands sea zone into the Japan sea zone, then bounces a tank off it into Manchuria. The Allies complain the transport wasn’t making a combat move, and insist both pieces be restored. Is this legal?

    2. Japan moves its transport with infantry the same way. Then Japan bounces the tank off Japan into Manchuria with the same transport. Japan claims that, since ships are not considered to be in motion inside a sea zone, he can transport whatever he wants from Japan to Manchuria, and it’s not even one move for the transport. Legal?

    I’d appreciate any help. I only got the game Wednesday. It’s copyright 1984, if that’s any help.

    Sincerely, don Jaime.



  • @don:

    Da Rules say: If moved in the combat movement part of your turn, transports are usually involved in an amphibious assault….In this type of attack, the transport’s mission is to drop off land units to the embattles territory. If the territory’s adjacent sea zone is patrolled by enemy ships, the transport cannot move there to drop off troops and tanks. Friendly naval and air units must attack this sea zone first and clear the way before the transport can enter it to drop off cargo.

    I find this passage confusing. It seems like it’s saying that Combat Movement may take place after Combat has been staged. Does this rule really mean that the transport must wait until the next round to complete the amphibious assault, or does it proceed immediately after the sea zone is cleared?

    try not to get too confused. Basically say you are Germany and you want to land troops in Algeria to combat the evil British but “alas there is a Brit warship camped out by the Azores (west of Algeria)”. Basically you have to declare your combat, clear the warships out of the way with your subs/battleships/planes, and immediately after your troops pile out of the transport onto the battlefield. Your transport may absorb hits in the naval battle, sinking it killing your infantry. tough luck.

    On a related note, can Russia place its initial transport in the Baltic Sea zone, since that would technically put it in combat with Germany’s ships? Can the sub go to the Baltic if Russia is restricted?

    First - well, technically no - it goes into the sea north of Karelia, however according to 3rd edition rules it may drop units into the Baltic to war with German warships. The sub may NOT go into a situation where it may encounter an enemy vessel if Russia is restricted.

    What about these scenarios - Japan wishes to retake Manchuria from some Ally.

    1. Japan moves its empty transport from the Phillipine Islands sea zone into the Japan sea zone, then bounces a tank off it into Manchuria. The Allies complain the transport wasn’t making a combat move, and insist both pieces be restored. Is this legal?

    If the land to which the transport is dropping off troops is within range of the transport and there are no enemy vessels in the sea adjacent to the disputed territory then the allies are being silly. The transport movement is part of the combat move as it is sending troops into hostile territory. (even if this move was performed in a non-conflict situation early/during combat - who cares as long as these pieces are not used in a different combat situation? I do this sometimes so i dont’ forget later . . . )

    1. Japan moves its transport with infantry the same way. Then Japan bounces the tank off Japan into Manchuria with the same transport. Japan claims that, since ships are not considered to be in motion inside a sea zone, he can transport whatever he wants from Japan to Manchuria, and it’s not even one move for the transport. Legal?

    I’d appreciate any help. I only got the game Wednesday. It’s copyright 1984, if that’s any help.

    Sincerely, don Jaime.

    No. Illegal.
    You may only disembark 1 unit (i.e. 1 tank or 2 infantry) per transport per turn. Any amount of infantry and an armour exceeds the balance regardless of the little semantics games your friends play. Otherwise Japan would only purchase 1 transport and boot dozens of infantry a turn to the mainland. Nice idea, but not a working one. Imagine the German trn in the Baltic booting infanite troops into Karelia . . . .



    • Naval combat is resolved before land combat, so no, you’re not moving the transport after combat. You’re resolving naval combat before ground combat. So long as you moved the transport to the sea zone before rolling any die, you’re fine. Note: any units that participated in naval combat, cannot participate on the land phase of the battle. So, if your battleship(s) did naval combat, they don’t get supporting shot(s). Same goes for planes. If they did combat over the water, they cannot participate on the amphibious assault, as they’d need to “combat move” onto land, and they already did combat.

    • On the manual, under placing units, there is a whole section with notes on placement. There, it specifies that the russian navy goes on the sea zone north of Karelia. It says more than just that. Find the section, and read it. It clears out a lot of confusion.

    • Any movement that results in combat, like an amphibious assault, is a legal combat move. The transport doesn’t have to do combat, so long as its cargo does. Note, taking an undefended enemy territory IS a combat movement.

    • Regardless of legalese about moves, transports end their move once they unload. So, no, you cannot bridge and get more cargo because you didn’t “expend” a move. The transport is done as soon as it unloads. This also means, that you cannot unload at different territories, even if you have the range. Once you unload anything, you’re done.



  • Thanks for the help. Please note, there is no section in the rulebook on initial placement per se. It merely states that

    Leningrad…sits right on the Baltic Sea. U.S.S.R. has the option of launching naval units in this territory from either the Baltic Sea or on the north coast of Karelia.

    It then refers players to the set-up charts without specifying anything about the Soviet navy.

    Which edition is the 1984 rules - first, second, or third?



  • Read a bit further. Page 9, right column, second bullet:

    “the USSR player places the Karelia SSR naval units in the sea zone north of Karelia, not in the baltic sea zone”

    edit this is for initial placement only. You can place any purchased russian naval unist in the baltic sea.

    Cheers!



    1. Apparently this depends on what edition rules you are playing. 2nd edition rules p.16: "If you are launching an attack and the sea zone adjacent to the target coastal area is enemy-occupied, then your naval force including your cargo- laden transports must engage in combat before the amphibious assault can occur.

    2)Initial placement of the Russian tr. is in the sea zone north of Karelia. Subsequent tr may be placed in the Baltic sea zone if it has been cleared og German naval units - again according to 2nd edition rules.

    1. This is a FAQ. Some argue that since the tr is bridging it cannot do it after moving two squares since its move is over. Agree to a rule before starting the game.

    4)Illegal. Once a tr unloads, its move is over. It may not reload (and then subsequently unload). The question is, however, may a tr unload two inf in different areas if both areas border on the same sea zone.



  • Looks like I’ve got first edition rules, that bullet Bolter mentions is not on page 9. The right column just says that tank=armor, and then runs over the players’ order again. I’ll add a note.

    Thanks for the help, all.



  • No need to make notes. Print these up!

    2nd edition rules

    They’re in pdf format, so you need acrobat reader.

    Free acrobat reader download

    Cheers!



  • Bolter,

    just a personal question…

    Are you a heavy drinker?
    With that nick and close
    it justs looks that way. 😄



  • Thanks Bolter!
    Very handy, you are.



  • @El:

    Bolter,

    just a personal question…

    Are you a heavy drinker?
    With that nick and close
    it justs looks that way. 😄

    ROFL! that’s a good one!

    Cheers! is not an exhortation to drink, it’s so people in the boards cheer-up.

    I play online WW2 flight sims like Aces High and WW2OL. People really need to cheer-up on those boards 😉

    Incidently, I got my nickname while doing carrier trials for an Aces High naval squadron. I couldn’t catch the wire when landing, and that’s what the Navy calls a bolter…it stuck.

    With that said…Cheers! 😄


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