… I am not trying to say that a German fleet is a bad move…
then let me do it for you ;)
show me just one solid tactic that involves and actual german navy from the start of the game which can also keep the russians out of the german backyard
I think your identifying the Russian sub as very important unit is an overstatement of this units value. Most of the time, the sub is useless, and has very little influence on the outcome of a game.
The russian sub is possible the most important unit on the table IMHO. You can name it “Red October”, pretend Sean Connery is the captain, and sail it around the globe, to harass Japanese shipping in the Pacific. Tell me what other unit is more vital than this ?
The USS Nimitz from the movie The Final Countdown (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080736/):
It is 1980 and the USS Nimitz puts to sea off of Pearl Harbor for routine exercises. After encountering a strange storm and losing all contact with the US Pacific Fleet, nuclear war with the Soviet Union is assumed and the USS Nimitz arms herself for battle. However, after encountering Japanese Zero scout planes and finding Pearl Harbor filled with pre-World War II battleships, it is realized that the storm the Nimitz went through caused the ship to travel back in time: to December 6th, 1941
I think your identifying the Russian sub as very important unit is an overstatement of this units value. Most of the time, the sub is useless, and has very little influence on the outcome of a game.
The russian sub is possible the most important unit on the table IMHO. You can name it “Red October”, pretend Sean Connery is the captain, and sail it around the globe, to harass Japanese shipping in the Pacific. Tell me what other unit is more vital than this ?
i don’t really agree with your assessment, as japan can see the sub comming 10.000 seamiles away and can easily build a destroyer or two if they dont have a bunch of them already. besides if the russians wanna do some damage with the sub on e.g. the italian navy they would need more firepower in shape of other ships and/or airplanes. I would say that the sub is annoying at best but not in any way the most important unit on the table…besides if if was that important I guess russian naval build would be more common ;)
I agree, the Russian sub is sometimes useless, but sometimes it can be useful.
Well, this is a theory and his has to be verified.
If that sub isn’t importnant, then Russia has no VIUs at all !
Remember, the VIUs are units that you have at the beginning and you can hardly replace them, so be careful not losing them - that’s the message of my post. If one decide to not play with a navy as Germany, that units lose the VIU status for him. But if one decide to build a carrier first round as Germany, he will glad to have that cruiser + transport - for sure.
as russia have more or less only infantery and because they are fairly close to each other i wouldn’t characterice any russian units according to the terms you talk about, and I guess that there is no problem in that anyway ;)
important units for russia are what you build and especially if you go with planes as they would often cost 25%+ of their ipcs
maybe I should make a little change in the definition of VIUs
there are two types of VIUs
a) potential VIUs
b) all time VIUs
all time VIUs are e.g. the German bomber or that US fleet in SZ 44 which can be helpful in the Atlantik as well as the Pacific. Italys fleet is also useful in every game, obviously. UKs fighter and tank in Egypt are always VIUs, Axis powers should destroy them if possible.
German naval units are potential VIUs, as in a non-naval-strategy they will be exposed for UK air attack an often destroyed in the first rounds.
UKs units in Australia, South Africa and India are potential VIUs as well, depending on UKs overall strategy and newly build ICs.
Thanks guys for that input, every theory has to be developped until it’s really scientific
I going to look at this in a couple of ways, units I hate to lose and/or units I love seeing my opponents lose or units that are targetted by your opponent.
Germany:
The Bomber. Bombers are deadly, not only for the 4 attack but for the range and threat level they provide. I tend to play it a bit safe with mine, but can’t tell you how much of a relief it is (as an Allied player) to see the Ger Bom go down to AA-fire in rds 1-3.
The Fleet. Sunk on UK 1, but if anything escapes to G2, consider it a bonus.
Russia:
No VIUs. Exception would be if they bought any air, but there is no specific unit that they start with. They mostly play with basic units of Inf/Rt/Arm.
Japan:
NO VIUs. They typically make enough where any unit can be replaced.
UK:
The Bomber. Same rationale as the Ger bom, the range and threats it can provide is unmatched, but unlike Germany after rd 1 or 2 it becomes hard to replace. The exception to not risking the bomber would be if you can use it to help take out the Italian Fleet in rds 1-2.
Sz 2 BB. If it survived G1 added with an AC and a couple fodder ships you pretty much have an unsinkable fleet at the end of UK1 and can concentrate on trns and getting troops to Europe. It just helps with the Atlantic logistics if you have a heavy hitter already on the board.
Egy units. If you have any of these at the start of UK 1 your job just got a bit easier.
2 Aus units + trn. You can create some interesting moves/counters with the threat of landing these 2 units in multiple places early in the game.
Italy:
Their Fleet. Should be obvious, but without it Afr is a lost cause. It should also be the #1 target of the Allies in rds 1-3. If it is sunk early the Axis can be in a world of hurt.
China:
The Ftr. You should never get to use it.
US:
Bombers. (see Ger/UK).
Pearl BB and DD/trn in Sz 56. You should never get to use them. If any survive to US 1 its a huge bonus.
Sz 44 fleet. Only b/c of the AC, either it starts the the core of your Pac defense or it gives you a massive projection of power in the Atlantic in helping you secure Sz 12 in rd 3 while the UK can shift to Sz 6.
The siberian units (all east of Evenki) are VIU for USSR. They are the only defense soviets have against Japan (don’t count with China and India japanese puppets) until Pacific fleet does something
The siberian units (all east of Evenki) are VIU for USSR. They are the only defense soviets have against Japan (don’t count with China and India japanese puppets) until Pacific fleet does something
Do they really provide much of a defense against Japanese advances? If japan brings any airpower at all, they are vulnerable.
To the contrary, if you are using DM’s definition, I would put them in the category of VIUs for the opposite reason. As japan I love the opportunity to kill them early before they can gain force multiplication by joining the central Russian defenses. I have found them much less costly to kill out on their own early on if japanese air can be leveraged.
The German tank that starts in France. It’s quite often the lone ground unit that survives Egypt round 1, and you can run it all over Africa, total hit and run, and often the US/UK will send multiple transports down to try to contain it.
The siberian units (all east of Evenki) are VIU for USSR. They are the only defense soviets have against Japan (don’t count with China and India japanese puppets) until Pacific fleet does something
Do they really provide much of a defense against Japanese advances? If japan brings any airpower at all, they are vulnerable.
To the contrary, if you are using DM’s definition, I would put them in the category of VIUs for the opposite reason. As japan I love the opportunity to kill them early before they can gain force multiplication by joining the central Russian defenses. I have found them much less costly to kill out on their own early on if japanese air can be leveraged.
If used correctly I find them amzaing to “force” Japanese moves on T1 or T2, even if they sometimes inevitably sacrifice themselves. To know that the Japanes player has to move on them can be extrodinarily valuable sometimes, particularly when you know it slows down their supply line/ factory build.
Another thing about starting UK forces, it can be very hard to tell what will live or die the first round somtimes, this can be very dramatically change not just the UK strat but the overal basic allied strat. Many times for me, the Allies action kind of hinges on what the UK looks like after J1.
- Another thing about starting UK forces, it can be very hard to tell what will live or die the first round somtimes, this can be very dramatically change not just the UK strat but the overal basic allied strat. Many times for me, the Allies action kind of hinges on what the UK looks like after J1.
Bingo. What UK has left/can do on turn 1 is extremely important to how the allies should optimally react to the axis opening moves. I think this is what makes the allies a little more difficult to play in AA50, because it is not until the 4th player’s turn on round one (UK) before an allied game plan can be finalized, IMHO.
Surely, you can run a standard allied game plan that is solid regardless of how the board looks (for the most part), but to slow the axis advances as early as possible, UK turn one is the key. Optimize what UK navy is left, or egyptian units or how Japan has positioned herself…… all key decisions that must be made UK1
