The repeating question : Who is advantaged in 41 with NO?

  • Finally, I’ll be able to play with my AA50 tomorrow with 5 friends!

    Since I am the owner of the game, I believe I will have the right to choose my nation 🙂

    So, what is the hardest nation to play?
    What side is advantaged? (I want to play on the disadvantaged side)

    I think a lot of people say that AXIS are advantaged in the 41 setup with NOs (Due to economical advantage). Is that true? If so, what nation is harder to play between UK-USA-Russia?
    Looking quickly at the map, I have a feeling that Russia and UK are probably the “hardest” to play. If not played properly, they will likely lead to an allied defeat (This is more or less true, since playing poorly with any nation can lead to a defeat).

    And if the AXIS are the hardest to play, should I assume that Italy is the most challenging?

    any thoughts?

    thank you!


  • i have no idea who has the advantage.  i lose with both equally 😢
    imo  russia and italy are similar in that they are a defensive power mostly.  japan is fun - lots to do.  usa is fun but it takes a round or two before they really get into it.  germany is a tough mix of offensive and defensive play.  UK is the most challenging to me.  where do you put an IC?  SAF, India, Aus?  hard to get a navy going with german fighters everywhere, and the japs can take most anything they want. and there have been games where the damn germans & italians almost invaded london.  have fun!!

  • Axis has advantage

    USA is the most difficult of play: it’s tricky know what to buy and where, having to fight 2 fronts is difficult

    The most boring is usually Japan: just stomp all at your reach. Well, Italy maybe is worst with so few income (unless they hold Africa) but you have more time to create mischief talking all the time and enticing you rivals (or your teammates)  😄 to suicide attacks  :mrgreen:, better not talk about poor old chineses

    All the others are funny: UK, soviets and germans. I used to like more UK, but now they cannot fight the Pacific or Asia, so now I prefer soviets. It’s a matter of tastes anyway

  • @Omega:

    I think a lot of people say that AXIS are advantaged in the 41 setup with NOs (Due to economical advantage). Is that true?

    any thoughts?

    Personally, I think the Axis should win 80% of the time.

    Take Russia, have your friends play the axis.  Germany and Italy buy all tanks for two rounds and rush Russia.  G1 sink as much UK shipping as possible.  Attack Anglo-Egypt (without bomber), it’s ok if Germany doesn’t win that battle, just want to soften up for Italy.  All that pressure on Russia causes no pressure on Japan.  Italy can be the can opener for the German tank stack to bust through and take Moscow / Caucasus.  This causes the allies to put several units int he way of the Axis tank strong hold of East Poland.  Don’t worry about france, just take it back from the allies.

    Japan can go wild with no allied pressure.  In 5-6 rounds, Japan will be all over Russia and the game will be over.

    You will have a heck of a time defending Russia.

    Good Luck!

  • I just simulated a game against myself.

    G1, take East Poland with force (all tanks, 1 infantry and 1 artillery against 2 infantry), take Baltics States with Fleet support, 1 infantry +1 artillery from transport (so a total of 2 artillery, 3-4 infantry and 1 fighter + shore bombardment)
    Ukraine was taken with 3 infantry and 1 fighter (the minimum)
    Egypt was taken with 2 tank, 2 infantry, 1 artillery and 1 bomber
    I sank 1 BB, 1 transport and 1 DD.
    I’ve build
    1 Aircraft carrier, 4 infantry and 1 tank for 31

    With R1, I may have made a mistake. I tried a tactical retreat. Leaving 1 infantry in Karelia. 4 Infantry were moved toward India. Stacked 7 infantry against the Japanese. I’ve built 4 tank and 1 aircraft (I believe Russia needs some fighter. Later on, they can go offensive without losing material)
    I think I shouldn’t give away Karelia like that! G2, I took it with (+2 infantry with the transport), with all the tanks and other infantry in Finland and Baltic states. That’s when I realized Russia couldn’t take it back :S (There were about (from memory) 5-7 infantry on it, with 1-2 Artillery and 6 tanks)

    J1 : The traditional crazyness.
    I’ve made a mistake J2. Russia had sent 4 infantry on India (Total 7 infantry and 1 artillery) . Ive sent about 5 infantry , 4 fighters and I’ve lost the fight(1 fighter shot down, and 4 kills with the infantry). The Japanese killed 3 infantry in the first round of fire. I was forced to retreat. On UK1, I was able to take Burm with 3 Infantry and 1 Artillery.

    With UK, I tried something. 2 IC first turn. One in India and one in South Africa. With the remaining 13, I made a bomber (mistake??)
    Did some strategic bombing against Germany. (I wanted to land in Gibraltar. But that’s when I realized I made a mistake. I should have sent some troops with transport on Gibraltar to protect my Air force)
    UK2 : 2 infantry 1 tank in India, 2 Tank in South Africa. Already 21 of my money gone. No more money left to build a fleet to compete against Germans (I’ve built a first turn Aircraft carrier)

    With US1 : Assuming a first turn 20 IPC in the pacific (1 submarine and 1 aircraft carrier), you have a fleet of 2 destroyer, 1 transport, 2 aicraft carrier (4 aircraft) and 1 submarine. In my simulation with J1 (1 DD + 4 fighter) against the lonely BB. The fight was won with 1 DD as casualty. I think this is correct, you don’t want to give America 1 BB (otherwise, their fleet will be impressive after 1 turn).
    with the remaining 20, I’ve built 1 transport, 1 transport 1 bomber (save 1)
    The bomber was useless, I thought after. But I don’t know. My 2 bombers were sent to England. I wanted to Strategic bomb Germany (since I wasn’t going to help directly Russia)

    I played two rounds but I stopped. Germany was all over Russia (He was making in the 40-50 IPC/turn).
    Although I made a mistake against India with Japan, the first turn IC in Manchuria was producing tank. The Chinese Fighter was destroyed in J1. China wasn’t a treat anymore.
    The American fleet in the Pacific indeed forced me to dedicate some resources in my navy

    I think my mistake with the Allies was :
    -To not have sent troops to Gibraltar with UK (Sacrifice 1 transport) and with US (sacrifice 1 transport). Why? Because I could have landed my Fighter and UK (UK). Then use them in African theater.
    -2 Industrial Complexe with England. I wanted to slow down Japan or keep him busy and I wanted to protect Africa. I think the way I’ve played Japan (certainly not optimal because of that mistake), there were no more treats to India for at least 1-2-3 turns. Most of the forces were in China and against Russia. Not sure if 2 IC is a smart move. I didn’t have money to rebuild a fleet with England (thus not being able to take down German’s fleet). It’s a slower move, but maybe its a good idea. Thoughts?
    -Spending 20 IPc per turn with USA to build a fleet hurts a lot. Japan can quickly outmatch you. Plus, my first turn Buy was probably not optimal. 1 Bomber and 1 Transport in Eastern USA. There were nothing left to transport! And the STRB. I think 2 bomber were enough to just harass Germany. A third one was unnecessary. (Plus, UK had 2 too)
    Do you recommend moving the fleet close to Japan? (In US2, I had 2 AC +4 fighters, 2 dd, 1 SS). Japan had only 1 BB, 2 AC (4 fighters). Its just to scare him. If he starts building a bigger fleet, I can move back. If he doesn’t I think I can take it down (if he doesn’t build more).

    I think I will try UK tomorrow. I’ll try that 2 IC first turn to see if it works :). It will be against people that don’t think like me (5 people have experience with Revised, none has played AA50. The 1 girl will be a newbie, so I guess she will be Axis :)).
    If they don’t attack Egypt or my BB, I will have a considerable advantage.
    If I don’t play UK, I’ll definitely play Russia. A single mistake with them and Allies are doomed.

    It’s going to be epic 🙂

  • In general, I have found Russia to be a challenging nation to play.  I believe Russia has the smallest margin for error out of all the others countries in order to be victorious.  Unit purchases, and territory trading must be done very efficiently.

  • With NO’s it seems the Axis have somewhat of an advantage to me.  Though, my jury is still out.  The UK seems to be the biggest key to the puzzle for me.

  • Do you think that giving the Allies a house rule : Joint Strike (from revised) can balance things up?

    At least, my suggestion has the advantage of trying to be historically correct 🙂

  • AA50 balance, and this is subject to change  :roll:

    Now there are 4 optional rules, I’m assuming you play w/o SBR interceptors and w/o Dardanelles closed.

    I have not played AA50 with the two optional rules which was added after the game was released, and there is not much empirical data on games played with those two optional rules.

    If you play with LL, which is very unusual in f2f games, axis are favored. In regular dice games, I think axis are slightly favored, but there are several players who thinks otherwise. In the triplea community, most dice games are played w/o bids, probably. Also, most players who play PBF do not use bids yet. (?)

    Imo, we will not see a strong demand for bids before players start playing “conservative” with efficient strats, b/c we don’t know for sure yet what is the easiest way for which side to win, at least not in ADS.

  • @Omega:

    Do you think that giving the Allies a house rule : Joint Strike (from revised) can balance things up?

    At least, my suggestion has the advantage of trying to be historically correct 🙂

    Not sure, but I think the easier and simpler is giving China a real chance of surviving J1 and doing something after that round. Deleting page 10 of rulebook and fixing the chinese setup would be a good begining

  • Moderator

    I still view the Allies with a slight adv b/c of the number of Round 1 attacks the Axis must do, particularly Egy.

    As for bids, we didn’t use them in our tourney and the Allies are holding their own quite well.  I think they are up a few games thru 23 games.  It might be like 13-10 Allies right now.

    In the League we do use bids, but that is also used to determine sides.  A lot of times both players may bid 0 and just let sides be chosen at random.

    I did just post a few stats in the League Forum (thru the first 12 completed) in the discussion thread and the Allies hold a 7 - 5 Adv in wins.  Avg bid was 1.3, but 7 games were played with a 0 bid and 2 were played with a 1 bid.

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