Preview 2: The Russian Revolution

I’m liking the rules Flashman. Perhaps, since Petrograd isn’t its own territory, make Livonia disputed, rolling to see which units become Reds or Whites (provided Russian units are still in Livonia at the time)?

Mmm, Livonia really has to be part of the annexed CP tts. I’m reviewing this at the moment, as I’m not at all sure I’ve got this area of the map correct. It’s possible that “Karelia” has two naval bases, one of which is in effect Petrograd.

But my instinct is that this is not so.

So the effect of Revolution on Livonia would be:

1. CP controlled: no change. Any Russian fleet in SZ 12 becomes Red.

2. Allied (Russian) controlled: remains White tt (place white marker); fleet remains White. Units of all Allies may remain.

3. Contested: no change, remains contested between CPs and White Russians and/or Allies.

For neighbouring Karelia (which is in the “Great Russia” area) the effects would be:

1. CP controlled: replace CP marker with Red Russian version, adjust incomes.

2. Russian controlled: replace all White Russian units with equivalent Reds.

Replace White Russian marker with Red version. Adjust incomes.
Unless there are units of other Allies present, in which case the tt becomes contested between them and the Reds.

Note that CP units are free to enter Red tt and attack Allies and Whites there, but they cannot take control.

3. Contested: Russians all become Reds. If there are no remaining Allied units, place a Red control marker and adjust incomes. CP units remain, but do not contest the tt.
If there are Western Allies present, they now contest the tt with the CPs and Reds, who may defend together if attacked.

Note that the Western Allies will be keen to keep some presence of their own units in Russia to prevent a Red victory (there may be few or no White units, and what there are may quickly disappear without Allied support).
The most obvious (but not only) route is the Arctic sea from UK SZ 9.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_Intervention_in_Russia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Russia_Campaign

My latest customized map has a red border delineating Great Russia and the outer tts.

I like it. I think it’s a good idea to make Livonia (or wherever Petrograd is) a roll to see who it belongs to, and there’s historical basis for it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junker_mutiny)

My only suggestion is to maybe add something to represent the arrival of White troops from Siberia in the east, maybe add a few White troops into Greater Russia every couple of turns or something like that.

Two issues here,

First of all it looks like Petrograd may be in Karelia after all (according to DJensen) so this is no longer a problem: Karelia is in Red tt.

Secondly, the timing of revolution. Inevitably, as long as the revolution can only occur at the end of the Russian turn, the Allies will gerrymander it to their own advantage. This seem wrong, as it should always be a defeat for the Allies.

For example under my rules they would simply move all Russian units out of Great Russia, having previously moved other Allied units in to keep control of those tts. Effectively the Red revolution would be stangled at birth.

So

Revolution can take place at the end of ANY player turn. Furthermore, there are two kinds of revolution.

If one takes place at the end of an Allied turn (including Russias) then it is a Republican revolution establishing a pro-Allied Provisional government. I’ll have to think about the effects of this, but one might be to bring America closer to war, as Wilson was reluctant to ally himself with the autocratic Tzarist regime.

If Revolution takes place at the end of a CP turn, it is a Red Revolution and is enacted as I’ve described above.

A republican takeover does not prevent a Red revolt on a later turn, but a Communist government does preclude any further revolutions; thereafter control of Russia is determined by civil war.

Eh, usually I’m all for complexity when it makes sense, but maybe just make it so the allies must remove all units from Greater Russia. I have a feeling there will be a lot less movement of non-Russian units to the Eastern Front than you might think…the ‘contested tt’s’ rule means you have to keep a constant flow of troops to your border to keep from being overrun. But if for some reason the Western Allies do try to mount an amphibious expedition to Karelia, this caveat will handle it.

Russia should just become a giant neutral. If you want to attack it you can, allies or CP can if they have a reason. Why are we making this so god damn hard?

You want whites and reds and rolls etc.
I just want the country to not become IMPASSABLE.

You want all of Russia neutral? Why would the CPs bother going anywhere near it if they can’t conquer the majority of Russian tt?

The Revolution must be in essence a CP victory, counting towards their victory conditions AND giving them a big income boost. It is hardly likely that the Allies will just stand by and allow this to happen, especially since they can ship units to Karelia directly from the UK.

I expect a sizable number of western units to be shipped to Karelia most games. It is not good enough to just say “they have to leave Russia”. Why? Who is going to make them?

Reds and Whites is not hard. Follow the history and the process is quite logical. All you need is some WWII Soviet units and control markers.

Russia didn’t just disappear into a parallel universe. The war went on there in a different form, and both sides in the greater war were heavily involved in it.

Another factor I forgot to throw in the mix: POWs. A large umber of prisoners were released by each side after the armistice between the Soviets and CPs.

So, a number of infantry units, perhaps calculated on the number of turns played, are placed in bordering tts by each side. Its simplest to divide up the CP units on a 1/1/1 basis, though in reality there were more Austrians than Turks. The number of Russians would be smaller than the PC total as the war is supposed to be over for Russia, but a number would be placed to bulk up the Red army.

This would party compensate the CPs for having a large number of units stranded in the east unable to be be moved to the western front in time because of the lack of damned trains.

Well presently Russia turns into IMPASSABLE after the revolution so just making it neutral is a small step toward reality. The CP can keep going to Moscow if it wants, but that reactivaes Russia as an allied power, conversely, if Russia is almost empty the allies can invade to get to Moscow and turn back the revolution (by fighting their way to the Kremlin)

Otherwise, both van ignore Russia as it sorts out its own internal affairs.
I would go as far as having a die cart you roll each turn to see if/how the revolution ends. Some result rejoining the Allies, some remaining neutral, some trading with the CP, and an option to Join the CPs.

Would probably be 2d6. 6,7, and 8 being “stays neutral roll again next turn”