Would the Allies win without Russia in the real war?


  • Wow! I think i’ve posted the longest discussion ever! Im still not sure considering i haven’t been on this forum forever? But meaby you guys can tell me if I did or not? Well have fun, and play well.

    Peace Out :lol:

    P.S: Im Awesome.


  • Not even close. :D Check out the “Existance of God” forum.


  • There was one forum about the war in Iraq, I think 15 pages (correct me if I’m wrong).


  • One of the Iraqi threads or the one about the UN are the longest AFAIR.


  • Donkey Kong Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 11:52 am Post subject:

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    I think that a war that involved only Russia and Germany would be just the same as the war was originally. The Germans pushed almost every tank, man and artillery into russia in the first place. Only in 1944 the allies came to a sort of “rescue” and then Russia had full controll. The answer is clear


    you know its interesting, how much of a contribution did the West make?
    I remember reading that the Germans kept back about 300,000 soldiers to man AA batteries and attempt to cope with round-the-clock USAF/RAF bombing.
    Also, the Germans had 50 divisions committed to counter D-Day. Hitler believed that with D-Day taken care of those could be sent east to deal with the ‘greater threat.’
    Again the Ardennes offensive sapped the Germans of any chance of holding the USSR back.
    I think a point someone made some time back stands; a stalemate was likely if it was only USSR v Third Reich. But a victory against the latter needed more.
    (And to think someone once said this posting belonged in the General postings)


  • Also, the Germans had 50 divisions committed to counter D-Day

    Hmm…I guess thats would explain how less than 10,000 allied soldiers secured a beach head on France facing a 50 division strong army. :D Germany had more like 1-2 divisions facing the allies on D-Day.


  • @Zhukov_2003:

    Also, the Germans had 50 divisions committed to counter D-Day

    Hmm…I guess thats would explain how less than 10,000 allied soldiers secured a beach head on France facing a 50 division strong army. :D Germany had more like 1-2 divisions facing the allies on D-Day.

    you got me!
    (I meant 50 divisions in the west, The Heer)
    The Germans didn’t know where the Allies would land so they spread them right around the Atlantic wall. In Normandy the Allies faced (initially) 3 German divisions to their 8.
    Big problem of course faced by the Germans was getting their reserves into the fight.


  • The Soviet Order of Battle during WW2 had something like 500 divisions that were put to use against Hitler. The Germans had something near 450. The US’s target was near 100 Divisions and they ended up with something like 70. I don’t know much about the British OOB, but it was definitely less than Ameirca’s.


  • @Chindit:

    Big problem of course faced by the Germans was getting their reserves into the fight.

    I thought the big problem of the Germans on D-Day was that Hitler believed that it was a fake and kept his forces waiting for the mythical 1st Army under Patton. All right, it’s the same, but different. :roll:


  • A huge reason why they could not push the America/Canada/British back to the beaches was because the tanks they were a 1hour(the one 1 hour away wasn’t the problem) away from the main beachheads but they could not move unless told from Hitler himself :o !

    At the moment Hitler was asleep and nobody was allowed to wake him up. He only woke up hours after the invasion had started If Hitler was awake they could of strown back a couple of beaches for sure :wink: .

    Peace Out.


  • Thats bull sh*t. The tanks weren’t anywhere near Norrmandy. Maybe they already had 10 there but that still wouldn’t have made a difference. After Rommel was forced out of Africia he was on his way to the West Coast. If we had forced him out of Africia sooner or delayed D-Day, he would have made it. And if he was there with all his tanks, we would have lost D-Day. But no whoop. We would have just launched a bigger assult a half a year later.


  • actually, there were tnks nearby… were did you find the info that there werent?
    I heard there were on History channel!
    I guess that channel is full of crap too! :roll:


  • even if russia hadn’t been involved and hitler had all his men and material to throw at us, we still would have won. germany could’nt match the industrial might of the U.S.A. and coupled with pearl harbour, we were out for blood. and the moral of the war is, dont mess with america!


  • Guys, hitler dreamed of invading ussr before he even became fueher!
    He wrote about it in Mein kampf!


  • The thing that won D-Day for the Allies was that Hitler didn’t want to be woken before a certain time. When he finally woke up, he believed that the Normandy invasion was a overly-successful diversionary tactic, masking the real invasion which would be at Pas de Calais. He could have called in the Panzer reserves, which were nearby. However, he decided to wait for the real invasion. When he finally decided that Normandy was the real invasion, the beachheads had been for the secured. Furthermore, because of Allied bombing of transportation lines, and some resistance, it took some tanks days to get to Normandy. Had he sent the tanks earlier, it is probable that the invasion would still have succeeded, but it would have been much less successful. The only way for the Germans to have won the battle was to have beaten back the Allies into the sea before they had secured the beachheads. Otherwise, they were virtually undefeatable.


  • The thing that won D-Day for the Allies was that Hitler didn’t want to be woken before a certain time. When he finally woke up, he believed that the Normandy invasion was a overly-successful diversionary tactic, masking the real invasion which would be at Pas de Calais. He could have called in the Panzer reserves, which were nearby. However, he decided to wait for the real invasion. When he finally decided that Normandy was the real invasion, the beachheads had been for the secured. Furthermore, because of Allied bombing of transportation lines, and some resistance, it took some tanks days to get to Normandy. Had he sent the tanks earlier, it is probable that the invasion would still have succeeded, but it would have been much less successful. The only way for the Germans to have won the battle was to have beaten back the Allies into the sea before they had secured the beachheads. Otherwise, they were virtually undefeatable.


  • The thing that won D-Day for the Allies was that Hitler didn’t want to be woken before a certain time. When he finally woke up, he believed that the Normandy invasion was a overly-successful diversionary tactic, masking the real invasion which would be at Pas de Calais. He could have called in the Panzer reserves, which were nearby. However, he decided to wait for the real invasion. When he finally decided that Normandy was the real invasion, the beachheads had been for the secured. Furthermore, because of Allied bombing of transportation lines, and some resistance, it took some tanks days to get to Normandy. Had he sent the tanks earlier, it is probable that the invasion would still have succeeded, but it would have been much less successful. The only way for the Germans to have won the battle was to have beaten back the Allies into the sea before they had secured the beachheads. Otherwise, they were virtually undefeatable.

  • Moderator

    Yes it is true if the Panzers had been activated the invasion would have slowed? On day 2 of the Invasion one pilot described the amount of allied tactical attack aircraft so large that he thought he should “Put his blinker on!” The total amount was an astounding 2434 Fighters and 700 light and Medium Bombers. The D-Day landing zone was 55 miles long or approx 1 Fighter for every 90’ ! The Panzers would have perished other wise and if they were brought to the front htey could evac the beaches and bombard again. In my view they would have perished anyway either by Bombard or Tactical destruction. The Allies were Indestructible IMHO.

    GG


  • Yes, that is a possibility. But it would be fairly risky. The Germans had tons of AA guns, which could have easily shot down a sizeable part of the aircraft. Even then, they didn’t know where the tanks would have been, so they would have had to search for tanks that may or may not have left Pas de Calais, and face tons of AA fire. Hitler did finally send the tanks, when the Allies had consolidated their beachheads, and when there were more Allied aircraft around. Most of the tanks made it there, although late. The planes were used to bomb transportation lines mostly, not actual tanks. I doubt anyone would take the risk to send planes to scout for German tanks coming to Normandy from Pas de Calais because of the risky nature of the mission, because they thought that they had thoroughly decieved Hitler, and because they thought that transportation lines had been sufficiently damaged. It probably would have been quite possible to send some planes, but the Germans didn’t send the tanks. A lot of planes would have been lost for nothing. I would think that they should’ve sent more planes to the beaches to help the Allied invaders.


  • Yes, that is a possibility. But it would be fairly risky. The Germans had tons of AA guns, which could have easily shot down a sizeable part of the aircraft. Even then, they didn’t know where the tanks would have been, so they would have had to search for tanks that may or may not have left Pas de Calais, and face tons of AA fire. Hitler did finally send the tanks, when the Allies had consolidated their beachheads, and when there were more Allied aircraft around. Most of the tanks made it there, although late. The planes were used to bomb transportation lines mostly, not actual tanks. I doubt anyone would take the risk to send planes to scout for German tanks coming to Normandy from Pas de Calais because of the risky nature of the mission, because they thought that they had thoroughly decieved Hitler, and because they thought that transportation lines had been sufficiently damaged. It probably would have been quite possible to send some planes, but the Germans didn’t send the tanks. A lot of planes would have been lost for nothing. I would think that they should’ve sent more planes to the beaches to help the Allied invaders.

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