The Battle of Britain….
Spanish Civil War
ABWorsham4 last edited by
What’s your thoughts on the Spanish Civil War? Do you consider it part of World War Two?
I think it was more like a training day, pre -season for the upcomming events…sorry canÂ´t find better words…
Some people say that WWII finished when Berlin surrendered, because the remaining fighting in Japan would then be just a local conflict
Aequitas said it for me. Was not WW2, just a very good way to train Axis units and tactics.
Well, I disagree. A soccer match dont start with the first goal, it start when the guy in black shorts blow the whistle, man. I figure WW II startet in 1933. From that point everybody knew the game had startet, and everybody geared up the wartime production to get ready, and there was a kind of “Cold War” with lots of minor proxy wars like in Spain, China, Manchuria, Etiophia etc with the same players as in the real war, they just waited to get in position for the kill, man.
There were many wars in the 1930s, and various territorial annexations which were carried out with little or no actual shooting. I see most of them as events which helped set the stage for WWII but not as conflicts which ran continuously until they merged with WWII proper. The Spanish Civil War, for example, ended before WWII broke out in Europe, as did the Italian conquest of Ethiopia. Austria and the Sudetenland and the rest of Czechoslovakia were annexed without outright war. The Russo-Japanese border wars of 1938 and 1939 were brief affairs, and led to a non-aggression agreement between the two countries which remained unbroken until August 1945. Manchuria and Jehol were captured by Japan in shooting wars, but these ended before Japan’s full-blown invasion of China in 1937.
I do, however, regard the Sino-Japanese War which began in 1937 as a feeder conflict which merged directly into WWII, on the grounds that Japan and China were engaged in a continuous war from 1937 to 1945. From 1937 to 1941, it was a conflict in its own right. Japan’s attack against the US and the UK in December 1941 marked the start of WWII in the Pacific, but as more than just an isolated Anglo/American-Japanese war. It also connected the Pacific war to the European war which had started in 1939 because Britain (one of the countries Japan attacked) was also at war with Germany and Italy in Europe. It thereby also linked both the new Pacific war and the two-year-old European war to the four-year-old war in China (because Japan, which was now at war with the UK and the US, was already at war with China). Hitler’s declaration of war on the US a few days after Pearl Harbor further connected the Pacific and European wars. The only connection between these different wars which wasn’t made in December 1941 was the involvement of the USSR in the war against Japan; that linkage had to wait until August 1945.
ABWorsham4 last edited by
I voted yes, if we look at the European War of World War II in terms of a death match between Fascism/ National Socialism and Communism, the Spanish Civil War was World War Two.
The Soviet Union were the main suppliers of military aid to the Republican Army. This included 1,000 aircraft, 900 tanks, 1,500 artillery pieces, 300 armoured cars, 15,000 machine-guns, 30,000 automatic firearms, 30,000 mortars, 500,000 riles and 30,000 tons of ammunition.
The Soviets expected the Republicans to pay for these military supplies in gold. On the outbreak of the war Spain had the world’s fourth largest reserves of gold. During the war approximately $500 million, or two-thirds of Spain’s gold reserves, were shipped to the Soviet Union.
The Soviets also trained 14,000 international communist fighters for the Republicans cause.
Worsham, get out of my head!
I actually reading a history of the Spanish Civil war written by one of my favorite historical authors, Anthony Beevor. It is my second time reading it, and this time I look forward to not throwing the book across the room when it upsets me.
In my opinion, once the Military coup failed to capture the necessary areas and the Azana government failed to arm the necessary groups to stop them Spain was fighting it’s own, self contained Civil war. However, once Franco failed to take Madrid in the fall of 36 and the Republic failed to capitalize on it’s victories there, Spain’s Civil war became WW2 by proxy.
what has always really bothered my (and made me throw that lovely book across the room) was how the Republics single biggest enemy was, Itself! Between the CNT and UGT anarchists trying to promote themselves as the rules of Catalonia, rather then using themselves as a Makhnovist style guerrilla army (in the proudest Spanish tradition) and the tiny communist party trying to brow beat everyone else into following them, it’s not really that much of a surprise.
, Spain’s Civil war became WW2 by proxy.
I totally agree with you man. Oh, I too got the same book by Beevor. I think Stalin sabotaged the Republicans cause since he was afraid of disturbing UK, they sure did not want a commy state as neighbour. Imagine UK joining up with Germany against communism in Europe.
I think Stalin sabotaged the Republicans cause since he was afraid of disturbing UK, they sure did not want a commy state as neighbour. Imagine UK joining up with Germany against communism in Europe.
I think that over-zealous Comintern agents and an NKVD infiltrated PCE (the communist part of Spain) are what really caused the most damage to the Spanish Republic. The wasting of men and material on useless “prestige” offensives in places like Brunete and Teruel, the lack of initiative shown the Soviet advisors and their communist promoted officers, and the persecution of Republic supporting groups like the CNT, UGT (anarchists) and the POUMS (Spain’s Marxist/trotskiest party) did the most damage.
Also, the other single biggest enemy of the Republic and the country that did the most to help the Nationalists and hurt the Republic was the United Kingdom. Their policy of “non-intervention” and the stupid committee they set up that did absolutely nothing. Even when given proof that both Germany AND Italy were blatantly ignoring their roles in this non-intervention committee, and actively helping Franco with troops and equipment, the UK did nothing. Also Britain keep France from helping the Republic by suggesting that they would not back France against the Germans if they did. It was part of the UK’s stupid policy of appeasement that did the most damage to the Republic and thrust them into the arms of the Soviets, and all the damage that caused.