Tried Japan without early IC's - only transports

[Yanny]

Field Marshal, let me give you an analogy that has nothing to do with A&A to show why you lost.

Now, say your making a webpage. You can chose between Microsoft Frontpage or straight HTML. You are inexperienced with both. If you use Frontpage, you’ll turn out a worse webpage, but its easy to learn. In the long run, HTML will give you a better page.

Its the same thing with Japan in A&A.

[Field Marshal]

Bossk - you need to open the 2nd front by turn 2. Infantry alone aren’t aggressive enough to quickly take both areas. You need southern forces to deal offensively with a British threat from Africa. Infantry in the north are needed for a few turns (3 or 4) before turning to armor for speed and power. This is maximum NP gain in the shortest time.
Yanny - Thanks for the analogy??? I’ll let it go at that.
Guys - this method has proven itself. The infantry guidelines quoted to excess are duly noted. In most circumstances they are sound. Britian and Japan are the antagonists that need to put the war in motion…

[Yanny]

Personally, I never switch to tanks. I use fighters for offense.

[Field Marshal]

I find purchasing fighters are too much of a luxury in a contested war over Asia. If I had a choice of purchasing 3 fighters or 7 armor - I’d pick the armor. I try to retain all 6 original aircraft for as long as possible, but for the IPC’s ground forces are my choice…

[Guest]

As Japan, I usually buy 2 transports, and 3 infantry first turn. I then transport 2 inf. from the Phillipines to India, bring in the fighter and troops from Burma and also a fighter from Manchuria. This usually ends Britains role in India. Now Im left with the US and Russia. Second turn, I’ve got troops on the way from Japan and THEN i build an IC to pump out tanks on the mainland.

[Field Marshal]

This is a variant of what I usually do, depending sometimes on the enemy. The effect is fairly the same, 2 fronts on turn 2 with the Allies pushed back…

[Yanny]

Problem is, how are you going to get 7 tanks to the mainland? Thats 14 infantry worth of transport. Fighters just fly right over.

[Field Marshal]

By the time you have that much NP, you will already have your first turn IC purchase. If your enemies were kind enough to hand you one in the first 3 turns, there’s 5 or 6 armor. You’ve already got 2 original transports. There’s 7 or 8 armor (again depending on NP).
If you don’t capture an IC, work up to the 2nd IC purchase. Keep your flow of units steady and save your extra cash. Sometimes, a 3rd transport makes sense before the additional IC.
Remember, all of Allied Asia gives Japan 44 in NP. This means 8 or 9 armor per turn.
Purchased IC’s give the player a greater “position” for attack unit entry. To keep a constant flow of units, transports can’t move any further south than Kwangtung. This means it will take armor 3 turns to reach Persia. With an IC in French Indo-China, it takes 1 turn. You can invade Africa or at least tie down the British so your northern IC and transports can attack Russia. If the German player isn’t making unnecessary risks, the pressure on Russia will crack them…

[Yanny]

But think about it. Say you have your IC in manchura. The British build one in India, the Americans one in Sinkang. You can get 5 tanks a turn (assuming you using your transports for tanks like you just said). The allies can build a combined 5 tanks a turn. They have the money to do this easily. Now where do you get the 35 a turn for 7 tanks? The answer is you don’t. You get less a turn because the allied presence. You lose asia. America and British rush in for the kill on Japan while Russia holds germany off.

[Field Marshal]

The first turn IC goes in French Indo-China. The turn 1 attack is normally China but can be India if Britian places their IC in turn 1. At the end of turn 1, transport 4 infantry and land 2 or 3 fighters in French Indo-China to back up the IC and set up turn 2 attacks. In turn 3, you have 3 armor as well, and China-India-Sinkiang are in Japanese hands.
In the northern front, turn 2 sees the return of the transports to Manchuria and an attack on Soviet Far East and/or Yakut. Keep half your aircraft in the north and half in the south, or as needed.
The Allies will be more reluctant to place IC’s with this sort of threat. If they do, capture them.
At this point I usually hear about the dual offenses “stalling”. By the end of turn 3 using this plan, all original Allied units in Asia are destroyed or retreating. The armor units quickly pick up any “lag” which may appear next turn. The Allies get a good jolt. Russia must send proper defenses to this front immediately. Britian must have Africa secured to help, if not, Russia will suffer. The US hasn’t had the time to properly hit Germany yet, and will hopefully divert to Africa (anything helps Germany) in alarm for African security.
A good British move for Japan is Britian moving their initial African forces to India to protect a first turn UK IC. While it may stall Japan a turn or 2, Germany gets the same time in further delaying Allied conquest of Africa. If Germany can get Egypt AND Syria-Iraq in turn 2, Britian loses landing areas for their fighters on an attack on the German fleet coming from Gibralter. The German fleet gets at least 1 more turn life expectancy and more infantry transported to Africa from Europe…

[Yanny]

How to keep the British IC - Land Russian Fighter there, use Transport to block any potential Transports from Philipeans.

[Guest]

The Allies building ICs in Asia is a bad move. Japan should be able to overtake them with relative ease -and if not, it only means the Allies are dedicating WAY too many resources towards Japan.

Japan should build an IC in Manchuria and then another in the adjascent territory and should max them out with tanks each round. Transports are a weak substitute for ICs.

[Field Marshal]

Convincing the Russians to forsake a fighter for Karelian defense for a risky venture with an Indian IC is a hard sell. It also limits the fighter’s turn 2 attack capabilities. As for the British transport, I’ll spend one of 3 planes to take it out for 2 more infantry transported from the Phillipines. Even if Russia gives the fighter to the British and you don’t want to attack India, take China and build up forces for turn 2. Taking India may be delayed a turn or two, but the British lose resources better applied elsewhere. As long as US and UK Asia is in Japanese hands no later than turn 4 your in good shape…

[Yanny]

Xeno - I high disagree with both your Japaneese and Allied strategies. The whole point of the Industrial Complexes is to make Japan Focus on them and not attack russia for as long as possible.

And, Transports are definatly the way to go. You cannot attack with more tanks than infantry, it just wont work. I barely have 2 tanks to 9 infantry when I play. I overwhelm Russia with Pure Numbers.

[greensleeves]

my last 4 games as allies turned out all the same. I defended Yakut with 5 infantry and Karelia with large numbers, Germany tries taking Africa, Japan goes into South Asia. Britain protects Africa and bombs Germany, US sends in forces to Europe. Turn 2: Russia attacks eastern Europe with Karelia and destroys german armor as well as most infantry, turn 3: Britain attacks Scandinavia, US attacks Western Europe, turn 4: Russia places all units in Russia to stop the Japanese. Britain attacks Germany and is defeated, US attacks Germany from Western Europe and might be defeated, Russia takes Germany on turn 5. Japan does kamikaze on Moscow and loses. End of game :smile:

Sooo i leave Japan alone and destroy Germany within 4 or 5 turns. Japan building an IC saves me about 5 infantry on defence in Russia in a positive way. Btw Yanny, wouldnt you need that transport to block German fleet from capturing SA?

[ This Message was edited by: greensleeves on 2001-12-26 07:02 ]

[Field Marshal]

Greensleeves - sounds like your German opponent wasn’t too experienced. He put too much effort into Africa at the expense of European security. An African venture beyond turn 2 takes a seasoned player. If the Allies took that much German European territory that early I wonder what he WAS doing.
In the Asian theater, the Japanese player needed to hit you in north and south Asia sooner. It must have been great to string him along. Sounds like he gave you plenty of time to do pretty much whatever you wanted. The early Japanese IC in itself didn’t doom him. They have to be placed and used properly to work out. Obviously, you can’t forget about your transports or your infantry needs. NP determines what you can and can’t purchase. Reaching the maximum NP in the shortest time needs available armor in the right place at the right time. Armor is needed to respond to a British threat from Africa. The Russians of course will respond to Japanese units so close to it’s capitol. This helps Germany expand. Once Japan takes all of Russian Asia, it starts build up for attacking the capitol. A good Japanese trick is a mock force build up near the Middle East intended for Africa but in range of Russia. This can capture the Russian capitol when attentions are directed elsewhere…

[greensleeves]

you can force players to take certain decisions (i dont think i played 4 terrible german players in a row):
1. By building an IC in South Africa Germany will send many troops into Africa or leave Africa for what it is. Either way is good for you. If he tries conquering africa, he has to weaken his european force, leaving Africa to the allies means lots of ipc’s less.
2. By defending Yakut with 5 or 6 infantry allmost all japanese players take southern asia early and dont concentrate on russia, meaning that russia can get up to 30 IPC income or even more.
It works against allmost all players.

Germany is weak itself, it doesnt really matter that much who plays with it. Its simply impossible to defend Eastern Europe with infantry only. Russia can crush Eastern Europe on turn 2 destroying all armor there, which usually is alot. And with the forces in Eastern Europe destroyed Germany cannot defend itself against invasions by all 3 allies. Germany will most likely fall on turn 4 or 5 then, by that time Japan has reached Moscow but Russia can afford buying enough infantry to defend it while the other allies finish off the last remains of Germany.

[Field Marshal]

If your German opponents are building IC’s in Africa it’s no wonder their losing! If their losing Eastern Europe in turn 2 means that their going on full defensive in that region from turn 1. That’s a big mistake. Russia can’t be allowed to have forces available to take EU that early! Germany really can’t afford to put more than 2 infantry into Africa per turn for no more than 3 or 4 turns. Western Europe needs to be fortified and the Eastern Front addressed. The US and UK cannot be allowed to take Western Europe ever!
If Japan isn’t hitting Yakut by turn 2 or 3 (the latest) they are not opening that Northern Front soon enough. If Japan is doing so without sufficient forces to capture it, again they’re doing something wrong.
Your opponents strategies are not aggressive enough to deal with the threats your hitting them with. Their not looking 2 or 3 turns ahead. If they wan’t to stand a chance against you, they better overhaul their Axis plans quick…

[greensleeves]

germany didnt build an ic in africa, i did (britain). even if they send 2 infantry into africa, they only have like 9 infantry left in Eastern Europe (even less if defending Western as well). With 19 infantry, 2 fighters and 4 tanks from karelia, russia can take up to 8 IPC’s worth of territory on turn 2. Which means 32 IPC :smile:

[Field Marshal]

I see, Russia isn’t attacking in turn 1. Still sounds like your German enemy isn’t attacking Russia at all and pulling back. That IS suicidal. Also sounds like he’s buying too much armor too soon. German forces need to keep the Ukraine at least 2 turns to keep the Russians out of Eastern Europe. Germany must sacrifice their armor to do so, but it forces Russia to take the Ukraine back. Doing so dwindles Russian forces to the point where German infantry can protect EU without it switching hands.
Sorry I misunderstood your African post. The only way an extended German African venture may work is rather risky. You need to build a carrier in Southern Europe, hold the Med, and take Karelia in turn 1. Taking Karelia in turn 1 is hard enough (using all available forces). Impossible if Russia has 20+ units in Karelia. Of course you have to ignore the British fleet (taboo). If it somehow works you buy time against Russia to do some work in Africa. I haven’t tried this yet, saving it for some future test…