• ground rules NO’s,notech, a bid of 6-8 one inf placed in egypt for the UK and the rest russia, Low Luck

    assume standard openings for the axis, U.K navy is dead (exception of dd and tranies off of Aus and Canada) U.S pacific dead except sz 44….Japan bought 2 trannies and a inf round 1, Germany is pressing heavy caucaus/africa (1st turn buy varies), and Italy sets itself up for a can opener.

    Is it better for america to go for a KGF or 100% Japan with a bury stack from russia?


  • well that’s always the difficult question for the allies, isn’t it?

    Which cry for help should be answered first?

    My personal take is too look at two or three key axis events:
    1)  Did Germany buy all/mostly tanks?  have they pushed as hard as possible on Russia G1.  Could russia do anything worthwhile to counter this advance?  A less expansive Germany buy gives Russia an additional round or two before the heat is really turned up.  Effect on USA:  Going after Japan can be a valid option if Germany is planning a slower advance.

    2).  Was Egypt attacked on G1?  If so, was it taken?  If no attack, or the UK ftr survived, one option may be to go with a UK turn 2 removal of the Italian navy by purchasing 3 bombers UK1.  Folly?  Perhaps, but removing the italian navy before it dumps more than only 2 units into africa may be worth it.  USA may need to support a UK navy a bit more in this scenario since UK invested in the RAF.  Do Not discount an allied boming campaign as a valid allied strategy, so USA may want to build a bomber a turn to help control Germany in conjunction with the RAF bombings that would begin UK 3 (italy) and then UK4 onward.

    3).  Japan’s 2 transport buy indicates more direct pressure on (north)East Asia.  Not sure a good move against this is to load up Manchuria as now Japan can bring 4 more units into that battle.  USA’s pacific plans would have to be solo in this case as the possible trading of Russian info for time doesn’t look like a good option.


  • assuming Dardanelles are closed, then a Russian force headed south into Persia with 3 tanks, 1 bomber in Caucasus.
    Following turn, 4 infantry 3 tanks supports India, while the Russian bomber takes the undefended transport in SZ38

    This means there are 7 infantry, 1 artillery, 3 tanks, 1 fighter and 1 bomber defending India. Japan has 1, maybe 2, transports in place to attack.
    There is no J2 capture of India.

    J3 attack is facing 7 inf, 1 art, 3 arm, 4 fig, 1 bom. Perhaps with 5 transports and their entire air force, they can break through, but by turn 3, if they’ve moved towards India, the Americans are coming.

    Turn 1, build 2 CV 1 fig(38 IPC)
    land 5 fig’s on carriers.
    base bombers in WUS.

    Turn 2, build 1 fig 5 subs, 1 transport
    You are now ready to push out on turn 3 with a fleet to rival the Japanese.

    A Russian Bry stack R1 (or R2/3, if Japan builds transports) is the final clincher against Japan.

    Japan cannot handle this kind of pressure. While it is true that Germany will be able to steamroll into Russia, a heavily defensive Russian force can halt the Germans quite handily. We’re talking 6 to 8 turns at least. Once Japanese pressure is released from India (think turn four, yes, Japan is pushed into defense by turn 4), The India IC can be used either to handle the Italians in conjunction with the London IC, or to take the money isles with a carrier fleet built to host the fighters previous on defense.


  • @cts17:

    assuming Dardanelles are closed…

    I think this is a huge difference in the rules.  I agree this helps the allies, especially early.
    Specifically (as CTS points out), it enables a Russia support of India.

    Unfortunately, alot of players do not use this optional rule.


  • Cts, i guess i should have been more specific dardanelles open, no fighter interceptors either.

    Axis_roll, in case #1 ur saying if germany turtles round 1 go for japs, i agree
    #3 i agree that all the russian shouldn’t move into manchuria probably would just be throwing one in then retreating the rest to Stanovoj.

    #2 this one is what im most interested in. we’ll say because of the egypt bid the fighter is still alive and germany didn’t atempt egpyt because they only had a 49% chance of winning. so this allows for ur bombing campaign so we know with LL if i throw 5or6 bombers to sbr im losing one for sure. so thats 12 dollars every turn after u have 6, how do u get the money as U.k to have a navy? the turn two attack is only gonna work if TJ is open to land the bobmers but then they will probably get killed by the japs, if all the bombers are in TJ.
    IF the tj is open and the japs don’t kill ur RAF, is a bombing campaign gonna work with no brittish landing force? i am assuming the brittish bombing of italy is coming out of caucaus so as to threaten the jap navy too, but then the U.S is going KGF in this strat i am assuming… how will russia fair with no brittish support besides bobmers, the germans can turtle up italy making it hard for the U.S to break, and if the u.s doesnt hold italy the game is over because the japs march into caucaus, then moscow. can a bombing campaign actually work?


  • in low luck how are the results of the bombing raid figured out?  every 2 bombers that get through equal a roll of 7?  How much damage would 5 bomber do if they took no casualties?


  • @Violent.copper:

    #2 this one is what im most interested in. we’ll say because of the egypt bid the fighter is still alive and germany didn’t atempt egpyt because they only had a 49% chance of winning.
    ….
    the turn two attack is only gonna work if TJ is open to land the bobmers but then they will probably get killed by the japs, if all the bombers are in TJ.

    so if Germay doesn’t attack egypt G1, that would allow UK to have in TRJ 4 inf,art,tank + remaining RAF after sinking the Italian navy on UK2.  Not a real gimme for Japan J3.
    Don’t forget the Russian turn 1 inf buy in Cau and/or tank buy on R2 can be moved in to help UK protect TRJ against a J3 attack.Based on these thoughts, I think whatever RAF is left alive should be OK.

    @Violent.copper:

    so this allows for ur bombing campaign so we know with LL if i throw 5or6 bombers to sbr im losing one for sure. so thats 12 dollars every turn after u have 6, how do u get the money as U.k to have a navy?

    USA needs to help with some covering navy like an A/C (or two?) and DD’s.
    The navy needs to set up in SZ12 as to retake/move units through africa to help against a japanese push thru persia as well as threaten Italy.  think UK3 in sz12 with USA help and from that point, react to German pressure.

    @Violent.copper:

    IF the tj is open and the japs don’t kill ur RAF, is a bombing campaign gonna work with no brittish landing force?

    My thinking is first, remove Italian navy to help keep african cash, keep italian from their NO’s, keep that can opener small. (UK1, 2 and 3)  Next, start to bomb Germany to keep her  from going totally wild against Russia.  This is a effort that the remaining bombers will undertake, no more UK bombers should be bought.  USA should be also bombing Germany, starting in round 2 and going forward.  Perhaps a bomber buy on USA 2 and 3 would help germany germany honest enough to buy the allies the time to still be in the game come round 5.

    @Violent.copper:

    i am assuming the brittish bombing of italy is coming out of caucaus so as to threaten the jap navy too

    only bomb italy on UK3 and then look at a combined US/UK attack out of SZ12 on italy in round 4.  After that, too many variables to make a bullet proof plan.  I suggest some allied tech if you are playing with that optional rule.

    @Violent.copper:

    but then the U.S is going KGF in this strat i am assuming… how will russia fair with no brittish support besides bobmers, the germans can turtle up italy making it hard for the U.S to break, and if the u.s doesnt hold italy the game is over because the japs march into caucaus, then moscow. can a bombing campaign actually work?

    The allies certainly have an uphill battle.  Besides the initial US navy and a bomber a turn help to europe, maybe USA can build some pacific navy to keep japan honest in the pacific.

    USA is a delicate balance.

    You can always try to go 100% after Germany if Egypt is not attacked G1.


  • @JimmyHat:

    in low luck how are the results of the bombing raid figured out?  every 2 bombers that get through equal a roll of 7?  How much damage would 5 bomber do if they took no casualties?

    @Violent.copper:

    #2 this one is what im most interested in. we’ll say because of the egypt bid the fighter is still alive and germany didn’t atempt egpyt because they only had a 49% chance of winning. so this allows for ur bombing campaign so we know with LL if i throw 5or6 bombers to sbr im losing one for sure. so thats 12 dollars every turn after u have 6, how do u get the money as U.k to have a navy? the turn two attack is only gonna work if TJ is open to land the bobmers but then they will probably get killed by the japs, if all the bombers are in TJ.

    I was just saying u know ur gonna lose one bomber a turn and to replace it u need to buy 1 bomber a turn which is 12ipcs i didn’t say anything about knowing what damage u will dish out in sbr…the only result known is that if u throw 6 bombers in the sbr u lose 1.
    @axis_roll:

    @Violent.copper:

    #2 this one is what im most interested in. we’ll say because of the egypt bid the fighter is still alive and germany didn’t atempt egpyt because they only had a 49% chance of winning.
    ….
    the turn two attack is only gonna work if TJ is open to land the bobmers but then they will probably get killed by the japs, if all the bombers are in TJ.

    so if Germay doesn’t attack egypt G1, that would allow UK to have in TRJ 4 inf,art,tank + remaining RAF after sinking the Italian navy on UK2.  Not a real gimme for Japan J3.
    Don’t forget the Russian turn 1 inf buy in Cau and/or tank buy on R2 can be moved in to help UK protit wont be in africaect TRJ against a J3 attack.Based on these thoughts, I think whatever RAF is left alive should be OK.

    A I1 attack on Tj usually followed by a G2 attack will take TJ turn 2 so then the Russian take TJ back with a few tanks because it cant spare the inf on round 1 then the Japs take Tj on their turn 2 because i have noticed on triple A players actually will skip over Philippines turn 1 and take the Burma turn one so on turn 2 the can hit TJ with more something like 5inf 1 art and two fighters thus stopping the turn 2 take down. If there is no skip u could pull it off as long as U can afford to throw Russian tanks away from the German front.
    I just don’t see a SBR campaign working if U.K needs U.S boats and U.S needs to maintain 6bombers at all times well the Japs have total freedom, do u know of any games that it has worked that I could review?


  • I like to send U.S on a KGF personaly but i was playing some triple A and the argument arose from one of the more experienced guys that going Pacific with the U.S is actually better so I was curious as to what everyone thought.


  • @Violent.copper:

    I just don’t see a SBR campaign working if U.K needs U.S boats and U.S needs to maintain 6bombers at all times well the Japs have total freedom, do u know of any games that it has worked that I could review?

    Not sure where/how you decided the US (allies) need 6 bombers to conduct a SBR campaign.  My initial thoughts were the bombers were utilized in rounds 2 thru 4/5 to buy the allies some time to implement a mid-game strategy.

    I confess, I don’t know exactly how the LL aspect effects the dice outcomes for SBRs (if that’s a factor in the 6 bombers requirement).


    UK get’s their navy on UK2.  They would have $44 to spend, adding to the one tpt and DD usually left for UK after G1.  US adds at least a carrier on US1 for the atlantic to cover UK’s navy buy round 2.

    The only game example of a full-on allied SBR campaign has been in a FTF game, so I have nothing to ‘show’ you, sorry.


  • I think the USA should always help with Germany first. Going across North Africa can help seal the Med and support the Brits in India. Use some bombers for Germany, but losing them is always a danger. I have seen snake eyes a lot of times. Support the Allied invasion with fighters, tanks and destroyers and wear the Germans down.

    In the Pacific the USA can distract the IJN with building a battleship, AC and some support vessels. And start cruising the Pacific, threathening Japanese strongholds. That might buy some time to take on the Germans. Remember, when Moscow falls to Germany, the Allies are in big trouble.


  • Going pacific with US is better, slow the giant before picking strategy for germany. This must be combined with a IC in india (support it with 2 russian inf).
    The key is to overload Japan with the stack of russians, the combined migth of all the allied resources in pacific is enough to slow Japan and then help russia. But beware this is a very though strategy to pull off since you have to think two rounds ahead with what US buys.

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