ALL SUBS FOR USA??

with Russia invested in China (IC in Szechwan and raised territory value to 3) and getting the IPCs, pluss the turn order allowing to consolidate, made a KJF more viable. My friend tried it one game but made a couple mistakes with positioning

@the-spaceman Seems like a good start. A few thoughts to throw into the mix:

I would say UK’s naval priorities should be first the Baltic fleet, then any stray transports, then any stray subs. The subs don’t do any convoy damage or anything like that, so they’re really just targets of opportunity; it’s not like you can safely leave British transports unattended anyway because of the German bomber, so the subs aren’t doing that much more harm. The Baltic fleet is top priority because it allows Germans to cheaply conquer Norway/Finland/Karelia, and because it’s too expensive for Germany to sanely replace.

The Australian transport can flee across Argentina to the Atlantic, but I would leave the destroyer behind to block a J2 attack on Australia – I think it does more good slowing down Japan and keeping some of the UK income than it does to get a destroyer added to your Atlantic fleet, like, 3 turns later. For similar reasons, I usually won’t move the starting US Pacific fleet to the Atlantic. If the Allies took unusually heavy naval losses, then maybe it’s worthwhile, but the Pacific fleet is earning you nothing the whole time it’s in transit through the Panama Canal. Having a few starting boats in the Pacific – even just CV, ftr, DD, tran – means that if you ever do need to upgrade the Pacific fleet into a formidable force because Japan is grabbing Alaska and Hawaii or whatever, then you can do so with one turn of purchases. If you can’t quickly reinforce the US Pacific fleet to the point where it can drive away the Japanese navy, then you might be forced to buy 10 infantry for the Western US instead or something similarly expensive and wasteful.

It doesn’t always make sense to build a huge Atlantic fleet at all as the Allies – sometimes you can sink the Italian fleet using primarily air power and subs, and/or build a pair of factories in Egypt, South Africa, India, or Australia. Some games you won’t have enough good safe factory sites, and some games you’ll need a big fleet because, e.g., Germany is heavy on air power (so you need protection for your transports) but short on infantry (so invading France is really attractive). On the other hand, if Germany trades its entire air force to wipe out your boats on G1, builds a factory in France on G1, and then drops 6 infantry there on G2, maybe just let the Atlantic navy go for several turns and rely on factories instead, or have the British build factories and let the Americans reinforce with a fleet into Morocco after they build up.

@argothair It depends on which battles failed.

Typically, if any battle is going to go sideways, it’s the SZ12 one (DD/CR off of Gibraltar). I don’t mind losing/drawing this one too much, as all does is gives UK an opportunity to either go all-in against the Italian fleet or consolidate their Atlantic Fleet (which Germany really has no means of stopping even if you kill everything).

In the extremely unlikely event that SZ2 or SZ6 (where the actual transports are) go badly, you’re probably in really horrible shape. Only real recourse at that point is to turtle up, by tons of INF, and pray for better luck on Japan’s side of the board.

@taamvan Can you say a bit more about what Japan is doing in your games? It’s true that with a well-executed KGF Germany will be contained to the core territories of France, NW Europe, Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia, and Romania – but that’s still worth $30 a turn and it takes the Allies a very long time to build and load enough transports to crack it.

Meanwhile, a pure KGF usually leaves Japan free to take India, then the Caucasuses, then Moscow – the Allies can certainly rush a few fighters to Moscow, but sending even one ruins the only practical Russian national objective, and if you build too many then you never get enough Allied ground troops to crack the German turtle – fighters in Moscow can’t reach to support an attack on France.

In my experience, without a bid and with NOs on, the Japanese attack on Moscow is much faster than the American attack on Paris, let alone Berlin. How does the Pacific play out in your games?

They can be, goof2658, but Japan has the option of moving two of its carriers over to Tokyo Bay on J1, and up to four fighters can land there after the Pearl Harbor / San Diego J1 attacks. That’s plenty of protection against one bomber.

So, if you want to maximize your attack on Asia, rather than your attack on the US Pacific navy, you can kind of stack up near Tokyo instead of stacking in the Caroline Islands. Depending on how many of your fighters survived, this is often a good idea anyway, because your stack may not be safe in the Carolines.

In my most recent tournament game against Zhukov I employed a Pacific/Atlantic spread with the Allies that was going pretty well in my estimation until I overlooked a couple Italian tanks that broke a hole through my Russian defenses for the German tanks to get to Moscow.  Had I not made that mistake I think I would have prevailed as the Allies as I never lost the economic advantage and was making headway on most fronts.

I had a bid of 9 and placed 2 infantry in Egypt and 1 in Belorussia.  The extra infantry in Egypt were certainly advantageous for me as it held off the Axis long enough for me to destroy the Italian navy and completely push the Axis out of Africa.  A couple things I did that I’m going to explore more were:
1. Built a South Africa IC - This might not be the best/most essential part, but I thought it was necessary with the US going mostly into the Pacific, so there would be no reinforcements to Africa
2. Built 2 bombers for the UK for use against the Italian fleet - Having the 3rd that most people going for the bomber heavy UK1 turn would have been helpful as the Axis took Gibraltar to keep me from using my fighters for support in taking out the Italian navy, but I got a little lucky and was able to take it out anyway with the 3 UK bombers alone
3. Built 1 American carrier for defensive support of the UK in the Atlantic and sent the US transport toward Norway - my thoughts were that I could get 5 extra IPCs for the US to help them there and have the opportunity to build an IC for the US to place some land units in Europe while their navy was in the Pacific

It may have been a fluke as it may have gone much differently if I hadn’t gotten relatively lucky in destroying the Italian navy with the UK bombers, but I was happy with the progression as I was able to complete Operation Torch to drive out the Germans and Italians in Africa, and began to weaken the Japanese and boost the UK in the Pacific with the US taking strategic islands.  If I had been able to hold on as Russia for another turn or two perhaps (as I thought I would be able to do), I think I could’ve begun to reinforce Russia and start whittling down Europe.  After all of the negative talk about KGF being the only viable strategy with AAAE being broken and needing a large bid for a Global/Pacific campaign to work, I was quite encouraged by this game (even if it looks like I’ll probably lose now in the end with my Russian catastrophe).  Considering it was a tournament game I probably “shoul’ve” :wink: gone with a more “efficient” KGF strategy, but I enjoyed it as it went even if it may not have been the most reliable strategy.

Unless a destroyer is present, a sub may always just choose to submerge in the opening fire round.

Imagine a round 3 situation:

Italy has its fleet in SZ 15, they maybe attacked Transjordan in round 2.
a clever move would be as UK - move your complete fleet to SZ 13, this fleet should be AC + 2 ftgrs, 2 Cruisers, 2 DDs and 1-2 subs. Yes, buy subs as UK if you want to kill that Italian fleet.

So that Italien fleet is trapped!
If they control Egypt and Trans Jordan, use your Inf from Persia and a Bomber to capture Transjordan, so the Italian fleet can’t escape via Suez canal.

So what can Italy do ?

Attack - that’s suicidal, especially with 2 UK subs and that Russian sub in SZ 13 (russian sub moved to SZ 13 first, UK followed)

leave - unfortunately they can’t ; SZ 16 is also 2 spaces away from SZ 13

block - the best option.

This is a 2 step move:
First take ground units from Italy and recapture Transjordan
Build a DD in SZ 14 hoping to block UK fleet and use Suez canal next round.

Next Round:

Now the Russian sub will have a use. :evil: Attack that newly build Italian DD with your sub and 1-2 fighters from Caucasus (you have to land all your Russian aircraft in Stalingrad or build new one there !!). SZ 14 is 2 spaces away from Caucasus, so that fighters can fly back in NCM safely.

It doesn’t matter if that sub survives, what matters is to destroy that DD - UK will move before  Italy and will destroy that fleet easily ! (use 2 subs and 1 DD plus aircraft, you will win with overwhelming odds - do not use your cruisers if not necessary, better attack France if possible but beware of German aircraft)