Thanks for the expert background information on this topic, Herr KaLeun.
Israeli Editorial: Kill Arafat; End the Double Standard
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@MC:
Is it really that generous to give back part of what you have occupied ?
It ain’t occupied or Occupied Territories.
It was land won in a war(excuse me) wars!
How many wars can you cite in which the victor gave land back to the loser. I can think of one. After WWI France gave land back to Germany AFAIR.If anyone is improperly in the territories it’s the Palestinians…
cuz no one will have them!There was no nation of Palestine before or during the time of Israel.
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@El:
@MC:
Is it really that generous to give back part of what you have occupied ?
It ain’t occupied or Occupied Territories.
It was land won in a war(excuse me) wars!
How many wars can you cite in which the victor gave land back to the loser. I can think of one. After WWI France gave land back to Germany AFAIR.If anyone is improperly in the territories it’s the Palestinians…
cuz no one will have them!There was no nation of Palestine before or during the time of Israel.
You know land that is occupied is usually won in a war……
After WW2 Japan and Germany got most of their land back.
I am sure I can come up with more examples later…You say that there is no occupation , let me qoute Sharon:
“You cannot like the word, but what is happening is an occupation – to
hold 3.5 million Palestinians under occupation. I believe that is a terrible
thing for Israel and for the Palestinians,”“It can’t continue endlessly,” Sharon said. “Do you want to stay forever in
Jenin, in Nablus, in Ramallah, in Bethlehem? I don’t think that’s right.”Even a man like Sharon recognizes that there is an occupation.
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There’s an occupation alright and it’s not the Isreali’s…
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True this is an occupation, but who went to the UN first for the establishment of nationhood?….
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@Deviant:Scripter:
There’s an occupation alright and it’s not the Isreali’s…
right.
It’s Iraq. . . . -
Well, some things:
in WWI, no allied Army made it onto german soil. That’s why the legend of the "stab in the back’ arose.
In most wars the winner gave back some of the conquered territory, and kept some other parts. But then, in those days there usuaully was a peace treaty sey up for these things.For the “giving back and stopping building new settlements”, you should really pay more attention.
“We keep establishing new settlements, but we must not cheer about them anymore” …something along these lines was said by Sharon after the road-map was “put into action”. -
1.) What do you think would happen (realistically) if Israel killed Arafat?
2.) If they sent him to another country?
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If they killed him, then Israel should prepare itself for something that makes the Intifadas look like kindergarten party.
If they sent him away, they would lose whatever little control they have over him, not making their situation better. -
Hmmm, what if he just disappeared one day? (IDF snatches him) And Isreal denies all involvement?
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Well, noone would believe them.
Israel is to fundamentalist muslims like Saddam was to GWB. Whatever the first says, the second would not believe a word. -
unfair comparison. saddam consistently lied whenever it suited him (in dealing with the US, it was generally all the time), he was not in any way, shape or form trustworthy
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Israel’s Government should be held to a much higher standard than Palestinian terrorists.
So are you saying the Govt. of Israel can’t bomb the terrorists, but the terrorists can bomb Israel?
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unfair comparison. saddam consistently lied whenever it suited him (in dealing with the US, it was generally all the time), he was not in any way, shape or form trustworthy
In the eyes of fundamentalists muslims, Israel might be even worse.
It’s not that i make the comparison for myself, but it’s what i would think that fundamentalist muslims think of Israel…@Grigoriy:
Israel’s Government should be held to a much higher standard than Palestinian terrorists.
So are you saying the Govt. of Israel can’t bomb the terrorists, but the terrorists can bomb Israel?
A gov’t that calls itself democratic must by definition have different standards than terrorists, and from my western and european point of view, the standards the gov’t should follow are what i call “higher”. So, i agree with Yanny.
A democratic gov’t can not go out and bomb or shoot whoever they like. A terrorist can. An attacked democracy must defend itself though, with the appropriate means in due proportions to the attack! -
I understand the fact that a “democratic” govt. would not and should not go around indiscriminately bombing its enemies, but I don’t see why if that government has enemies, and knows that the enemies are going to attack, they can’t prevent the attack and thereby save lives that would have been lost by allowing the attack in the first place.
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So something i have been mulling over . . . (disclaimer: although i have thought about it, this does not mean i consider it a palatable solution, and i find it more odious than appealling. Note also that this was something a classmate and i had discussed and much had come from his mind).
We have a problem. It is important to deter Suicide Bombing (SB). There are a few ways - including the destruction of all Israelites and most Americans. This seems unviable currently. So the question - how would one accomplish the appropriate deterrance and punishment given that the SB is willing to become (and eventually ends up)in billions of little pieces? Is any punishment that is currently in existance of any benefit or use? Evidently not. So what do we do?
The Israeli gov’t - or better an NGO operating at arms length - advertises that it will exact the most brutal of all punishments on suicide bombers (SBs). Once the SB is identified, this NGO employs a paramilitary group. This group destroys the family of the SB. In the first year it begins with the immediate family - wife and children. If this is not sufficient, then the second year they lose their brothers and sisters and parents. Again the following year if this has not been sufficient the cousins, uncles and aunts are destroyed. Eventually the nieces and nephews. Finally in the final year you simply destroy the SB’s social group.
I’ll be the first to admit - its an evil plan. This would be demonstrated against by the most Zionistic Jew. The question is - would it work?? -
A terrorist can. An attacked democracy must defend itself though, with the appropriate means in due proportions to the attack!
What are appropriate means? :)
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@cystic:
So something i have been mulling over . . . (disclaimer: although i have thought about it, this does not mean i consider it a palatable solution, and i find it more odious than appealling. Note also that this was something a classmate and i had discussed and much had come from his mind).
We have a problem. It is important to deter Suicide Bombing (SB). There are a few ways - including the destruction of all Israelites and most Americans. This seems unviable currently. So the question - how would one accomplish the appropriate deterrance and punishment given that the SB is willing to become (and eventually ends up)in billions of little pieces? Is any punishment that is currently in existance of any benefit or use? Evidently not. So what do we do?
The Israeli gov’t - or better an NGO operating at arms length - advertises that it will exact the most brutal of all punishments on suicide bombers (SBs). Once the SB is identified, this NGO employs a
paramilitary group. This group destroys the family of the SB. In the first year it begins with the immediate family - wife and children. If this is not sufficient, then the second year they lose their brothers and sisters and parents. Again the following year if this has not been sufficient the cousins, uncles and aunts are destroyed. Eventually the nieces and nephews. Finally in the final year you simply destroy the SB’s social group.
I’ll be the first to admit - its an evil plan. This would be demonstrated against by the most Zionistic Jew. The question is - would it work??no I don’t think it would work… you kill a family and 20 more join the SBombing cause… the fued starts over again and so on…
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You think so? The name of the game being prevention - although these jerks would sacrifice their lives, would they be so quick to sacrifice the lives of their families?
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@cystic:
So something i have been mulling over . . . (disclaimer: although i have thought about it, this does not mean i consider it a palatable solution, and i find it more odious than appealling. Note also that this was something a classmate and i had discussed and much had come from his mind).
We have a problem. It is important to deter Suicide Bombing (SB). There are a few ways - including the destruction of all Israelites and most Americans. This seems unviable currently. So the question - how would one accomplish the appropriate deterrance and punishment given that the SB is willing to become (and eventually ends up)in billions of little pieces? Is any punishment that is currently in existance of any benefit or use? Evidently not. So what do we do?
The Israeli gov’t - or better an NGO operating at arms length - advertises that it will exact the most brutal of all punishments on suicide bombers (SBs). Once the SB is identified, this NGO employs a paramilitary group. This group destroys the family of the SB. In the first year it begins with the immediate family - wife and children. If this is not sufficient, then the second year they lose their brothers and sisters and parents. Again the following year if this has not been sufficient the cousins, uncles and aunts are destroyed. Eventually the nieces and nephews. Finally in the final year you simply destroy the SB’s social group.
I’ll be the first to admit - its an evil plan. This would be demonstrated against by the most Zionistic Jew. The question is - would it work??I think it would work, but it’s not feasible. No country in their right mind would support such a thing. Look at it now, the UN is practically shitting a brick at the thought of killing a known terrorist (Arafat). What do you think they’d have to say about killing innocent people on purpose?
I’d rather just leave it at kill them before they kill us. In terms of Israelis, I think they have every right to go attack the terrorists (disproportionally or not F_alk), in order to defend themselves. If they happen to harm a few civilians in the process of defending themselves, so be it.
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as though the UN has any power. (totally unrelated to topic) i think it would be interesting if there were just 5 men in a room somewhere, smoking cigars, controlling the world, as so many conspiracy theorists say. because if you think about it, thats pretty damn skilled.
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