German moves



  • What would you play as Germany in the following situation?

    The German navy in the Baltic Sea is destroyed.
    The Russian moved the sub and the trans to England.

    Karellia: 12 Inf, 3 Arm, 2 Fight, 1 AA
    Caucassus: 8 Inf, 1 AA
    Russia: empty

    Russia captured Manchuria: 1 Arm, 1 Inf
    Yakut: 2 Inf

    UK will probably build an IC in India. USA will start to use aircforce and navy in the Pacific.
    What would be your further plans with the Axis?

    Me and my friends started playing A&A. Last week I played Russia and this was the result of my first move. This turned out well and, facing an not perfectly playing Germany, Russia could take Europe while UK, owning an IC in India, and USA concentrated on Asia. Next week I will play one of the Axis and it is most likely that the Allies will follow a similar strategy.



  • My gut is to attack Karelia and the UK Seazone.
    You’re hitting KAR with 9 inf (3 fin, 3 eeu, 2 ukr), 7arm (all available), 1 bmb, and 2-3 planes. The UK seazone you use your sub and the rest of your air. In the meantime i would make whatever maneuvers in Africa appealled to me, with plans to dump my 2 seu inf onto UKR to block a Cau offensive.

    the Karelia battle - let’s assume 9 inf, 7 arm, 1 bmb, 2 ftrs (no aa hits)
    first round G kills (roughly) 6-7 inf, RUS kills 5-6 inf
    Next round G - 3 inf 7 arm, 1 bmb, 2 ftrs, R - 5 inf, 3 arm, 2 ftrs - now i’d either retreat back to UKR, or keep going, depending on how badly i felt threatened by the russian air and armor.
    G2 G kills 5-6 inf, R kills maybe 4 units
    G - 6 arm, 1 bmb, 2 ftr, R - 3 arm, 2 ftrs - again, retreat or press
    G3 G kills 4-5, R kills 2ish
    Germany takes Karelia with maybe 4 arm plus air. It may well lose those arm if R kills Kar from Cau, but since during my NCmovement i moved a bunch of inf to UKR and EEU, as well as my remaining arm, and i still have a semblance of an airforce left, R may well retreat back to Russia. Hard to say.
    I know this isn’t a GREAT plan - best on short notice, and i’ll get hammered for losing Germany’s armor, but this seems to be a good reason to lose Germany armor. This is a classic hammer and anvil opening. Japan just has its way with Russian territories in the east while Germany pumps out inf the rest of the time.
    Take care - the UK seazone could cost you some air. The price you pay, i guess, for not playing Russia restricted.



  • although cystic and I disagree about politics, his strategy is tried and true. although conventional wisdom is to attack the UK sea zone (thus sacrificing fighters) you needn’t do this on t1, even if the allies capture it, it can be easily re-caputed. a higher priority is protecting your armor so that you can knock out russia in t2 or t3.
    since russia has no reserves in russia, your attacking karelia effectively destroys their counter attack ability.
    you can protect your armor in one of two ways, either by using just your airpower and infantry in t1 vs karelia (and 1-3 tanks) since the planes can retreat once karelia is captured, your armored force is spared. or if you attack karelia with overwhelming odds 9 inf 6 armor and 5 planes, this produces a much higher kill rate, meaning that you should still have all your armor, plus 3 inf. and your planes. and at this point your armor is vulnerable, but only to the 8 inf and one aa gun in the caucauses, decent odds for you. now the advantage shifts to you, and you can re-inforce while dealing with the allied landings/fleet.



  • about karelia, in the games i play karelia is never taken on t1, b/c they stack 19 infantry, 2 fighters and maybe a tank or two there



  • @StrongBad1988:

    about karelia, in the games i play karelia is never taken on t1, b/c they stack 19 infantry, 2 fighters and maybe a tank or two there

    true - i’m kind of curious why the Russian’s would spread their forces so thin, thus creating 2 dead zones. Three, if you include Manchuria which will certainly be taken by any Japanese player. Once Manch goes down, with no troops in the east, the Japs have few reasons to go after India when a concentrated drive brings them home to Moscow (well, i’d hit India anyway - it looks like it wants to be Japanese anyway).
    Also one may hit KAR with 9 inf, 7 armor, 5 ftrs and 1 bmb.
    In this instance:
    round 1 G kills 8 inf, loses 6 inf
    round 2 G kills 6-7 units, losing 3 units.
    round 3 G has no infantry left - they finish the units, and lose 2-3 units leaving them with around 4 arm. This is assuming all of their ftrs make it under the radar. Given that they fly in 6 planes, there is a good chance that one of them is shot down - again, the price you pay . . . .



  • usually germnay has to use 2-3 fighters and maybe the bomber in the north sea battle though. you can’t just let the british navy just sit there, or you will be killed by t3 or t4.

    for the more experieced ones here, what do you usually do with the russians t1 w/ Russia restricted? my strategy that i’ve been using lately is to leave 1 man in caucasus and put everything else into karelia. and in the east recently i’ve been stacking my units in Yakut and just leaving 1 man in soviet far east, but is this wise?



  • That is wht I would do. In addition, move the sub and transport to Btitish waters. But I’m not very experienced so let’s hear from someone who is.



  • My way:

    1 inf in Soviet Far East
    2 inf in Yakut
    2 arm 4 inf in Novo
    1 inf in persia
    2 inf in cas
    tranny and sub to uk sea zone
    others all in Kar



  • This looks like a more defensive layered approach whih would slow down Japan a bit. Although concentrating in Yakut would force Japan to build up before attacking, or infiltrate through China. Both approaches seem viable to me.



  • 7 tanks, 9 infantry 5 planes vs 12 infantry 3 tanks and 2 fighters.
    you will hit 7-8, russia hits 6-7, assuming bad dice,
    7 tanks 2 infantry 5 planes, vs 5 infantry 3 tanks 2 fighters
    you will hit 6-7, russia hits 4
    5 tanks 4 planes vs 2 tanks 2 fighers
    you hit 4-5 russia hits 2
    you take it with 3 tanks, this is assuming bad dice.
    this is horrible, you have no tanks at all on turn 1, europe is weak, etc… and russia, while it has no air (really good), and no tanks (good too) it’s not always the best thing to do.
    what i would much rather do is, attack with everything, and after 1 or 2 rounds of combat, retreat to eastern. That way, you get to effectively use finland troops, and you don’t lose your offence, you actually help it alot by saving the tank. of course, if your dicing the other guy, you don’t need to retreat.



  • Personally, I’d hunker down and let Japan do the dirty work. Pull back to Eastern Europe, keep the pressure on Russia. Maybe take the chance and attack Karelia if Russia puts a lot of troops into a Finland attack. Make sure if you do attack Karelia (this is assuming he keeps 8 Inf in Ukraine) that you have enough troops built the turn before in Germany/Southern Europe to defend against an attack on Eastern Europe.



  • Of course, if you are playing will house rules allowing parachute troops, just drop an inf. on Moscow with the bomber and sack the capital! 😄

    The loss of Russia’s IPC, will allow you time to build up and destroy Karelia. Also, if you play with scorched earth, destroy the industry when Russia takes Moscow back, then put everything into taking Karelia (this will leave Russia with no industry with which to build for another turn and no Russian builds at all for two turns!) If this is how things turn out, I cannot see how Russia can survive, and it will make it very difficult, if not impossible for the allies to win.

    Just make sure that the other players are cool with those rules before you start the game 😉



  • playing with paratroopers is stupid, and if you were to play with them the russian player wouldn’t be stupid enough to leave moscow undefended



  • Thanks a lot.
    This seems to work. I simulated the battle several times and I allways took Karelia, although sometimes only with one tank. In a real game I would retreat before that. I will probably get a chance to try this next friday.



  • The most successful USSR Far East strategies I have seen usually involve hunkering down in Yakut with all nearby troops on T1 & leaving them there. Kind of boring, I know, but considering that USSR can stack 7 INF in Yakut on T1 (2 from SFE, 3 from Yakut, & 2 from Evenki) this is a pretty decent defense force without having to purchase a single additional man. Japan has to consider several different fronts & usually can’t concentrate enough troops against Yakut to take it for at least a couple of turns unless he/she leaves other areas vulnerable. Plus you free an ARM for use in the West–maybe you can replace it eventually with an INF–now you’ve got 8 INF!

    I don’t think it’s ever a good idea for USSR to leave Russia completely empty. You should be using whatever spare cash on hand to buy 1-2 ARM each turn in order to build & maintain a useable counterattacking force with an eye toward eventually going on the offensive against the Axis. In this case, concentrate the bulk of your INF in Karelia, the ARM in Russia with just a screening force of INF in Caucases or Ukraine SSR. That way you can always threaten a strike against Eastern Europe, while Germany will have to think twice before attacking Karelia–for even if they win, whatever force they take it with will come under the guns of your armor…

    Ozone27



  • @Ozone27:

    You should be using whatever spare cash on hand to buy 1-2 ARM each turn in order to build & maintain a useable counterattacking force with an eye toward eventually going on the offensive against the Axis.
    Ozone27

    I don’t think russia should build 1-2 armor a turn. If they do, that’s 10 ipc’s if russia is earning 21 a turn, they can only build 2 armor and 3 infantry, it’s much better to build all iinfantry. Tanks are offencive but very expensive. If the allies can hold their ground, they will win since they have a better production. Using this logic, russia should go all defence. This is true since for a conventional win, axis has to kill russia. There are numerous explinations of why russia should not build many tanks. If you can hold eastern, and you still have your 4 tanks, and you want to take germany, AND japan doesn’t control the 3 territories around russia, then you can build tanks. Otherwise, 1-2 once might be ok (it might not be either) but 1-2 every turn is a waste of money. germany can just kill your expensive infantry. You can read don’s essay on purchacing. It does the math.



  • Another problem with Germany going all-in in Karelia yielding maybe 4 ARM left in Karelia while leaving the Royal Navy alone, is that UK can amphib Karelia using e.g. 4INF, 2 FTR, 1 BMR, + shore bombardments by BB. FTRs land in Russia. Thus Germany stands without armor at all and Karelia is left to be taken by the otherwise meager 8 INF in Caucasus

    Peiter



  • U said USA would use fleet v Japan in Pacific. The US fleet at HAW should be sunk on J1. The remainder may be sunk on J2 unless US attacks with USAF and USN on US1. Any remaining IJN(Imperial Japanese Navy) may then move to defend Japan or support a TRN/2 INF move to IND/Mideast/Africa(your choice.)



  • I don’t think russia should build 1-2 armor a turn. If they do, that’s 10 ipc’s if russia is earning 21 a turn, they can only build 2 armor and 3 infantry, it’s much better to build all iinfantry. Tanks are offencive but very expensive. If the allies can hold their ground, they will win since they have a better production. Using this logic, russia should go all defence. This is true since for a conventional win, axis has to kill russia. There are numerous explinations of why russia should not build many tanks. If you can hold eastern, and you still have your 4 tanks, and you want to take germany, AND japan doesn’t control the 3 territories around russia, then you can build tanks. Otherwise, 1-2 once might be ok (it might not be either) but 1-2 every turn is a waste of money. germany can just kill your expensive infantry. You can read don’s essay on purchacing. It does the math.

    …OK maybe I should’ve said “…1-2 ARM per turn when possible…” if USSR is only making 21 IPCs a turn, then yeah, 1-2 ARM is gonna be a big burden. But with F/N under your belt & trading Ukraine each turn, 1-2 ARM each turn or so (allowing for occasional turns when all INF is necessary) is still a good idea. Without ARM you will have to rely entirely on your 2 FTRs for offensive firepower & will have to load up on a lot more INF to sustain attacks. Using only your original 4 ARM, you will have to preserve them and your ability to trade territory w/ Germany will be limited. I think its a good idea to buy a few ARM units along with your steady diet of INF…

    Ozone27


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