German strategy for building AC

[goldenbearflyer]

@newpaintbrush:

Actually, an AC lets the Germans use their AC-based fighters to threaten territories deeper in Russia. The AC also lets the Germans use their AC based fighters to threaten London. (But you know, fighters based at Western Europe could threaten London anyways).

What happened, I bet, was this: The Allies used their combined navy and air force on YOU. You don’t want that to happen. You want to use the German navy and air force on THEM. Barring that, you want to have big enough of an air force so that if the Allies DO commit their navy and air force, they have to commit pretty much all their navy and air force - and here’s the REAL trick - your navy has to be strong enough defensively so that the Allies cannot effectively hit and run after soaking up a few casualties. That is to say - if the Allies attack with navy and air force “to the death”, leaving Allied navy in the water, you should have enough of a Luftwaffe to destroy the entire rest of the unified Allied fleet with minimal Luftwaffe losses. If the Allies attack and retreat before the core of their force is destroyed, you should have enough fodder and air power to destroy the Allied fleet again with minimal Luftwaffe losses.

Too bad I can’t run TripleA at work. Then we could play a game or two.

Absolutely, I realize now I should have moved Kriegsmarine from SZ5 to SZ7 or so on G2, then attacked Allied navy with everything on G3.  Hindsight is 20/20.  Or maybe not, I remember Allied navy had no trouble T1 unifying with UK 1BB 1AC 3trn, R 1sub, US 1DD 2trn 2F.  Plus whatever they added T2.  That would have been one mother of a Jutland II, or whatever you want to call it.  I can’t shake the feeling that buying G navy is money wasted, but I’m willing to try it out again with “better” moves.

Oh sure, I would love to get pummeled by you, and your little dog, too! :lol:  What’s TripleA?  Can I have like 50 extra IPCs on the bid?

[newpaintbrush]

TripleA is a free program that runs Axis and Allies.  It has a lot of maps; Classic, Revised, BigWorld, Pact of Steel, thingy, other thingy.  It uses an online dice server for multiplayer email games so there isn’t cheating (the dice server emails the results of dice rolls to players).  You can also play live games.  You can also play against the TripleA AI, which is pretty horrible, but still a miracle considering it’s all free.

BTW, the program looks pretty good.

Do a web search for “TripleA”.  I think you have to sign on to the TripleA forums before you download TripleA, but it’s all free.

(There’s also a ladder for TripleA players.  Genghis Khan, who whupped me with Axis (one of few to do so), did NOT buy a G1 carrier in our game.  Lots of decent players on the TripleA ladder.)

Larry Harris Tournament Rules are not yet implemented for TripleA.  TripleA uses Out of the Box rules (and FAQ, I think).  You can preplace bid units too.

I can’t play TripleA now . . . no internet (except at work, yeyz0rz).  I’ve gotta get an internet connection set up at home (I moved Feb 1st, but I still don’t have internet!).
–

BTW, I think there may be solid lines of play without spending IPCs on the G navy.

[polywog]

To expand a bit on what Newpaintbrush said: the AC helps you use the navy ON THEM. Really, the G2 navy linkup in SZ 7 with a bunch of supporting fighters in france forces a cetain set of moves on the allies. If I were you I wouldn’t expect the German fleet to live forever, but just having it makes the UK/US respond defensively for a turn or two. If you get lucky, the Allies will react wrong and you can exploit something. However, the whole point (and I think the key to the Axis game) is to stay on the initiative, forcing the Allies to respond to YOUR moves. Once that table turns and you find yourself mostly in reaction mode to allied moves, your days are numbered. IMHHO.

The AC (or 3 TRN) purchase is one tactic to gain initiative.

Of course, free advice is worth what you pay for it. In recent games, I’m 3-1 with the axis, 0-4 with the allies…  :-(

[polywog]

Oh, by the way, I think the link to tripleA is http://triplea.sourceforge.net/mywiki . This is fantastic software and is now my preferred way of playing A&A.

[Guest]

All this talk about fleet unification…

The job of the Baltic Navy is to screen territory while they live, and to do as much damage as possible to the Brits as they die.
The job of the Med Navy is to get intial income gains in Africa while maintianing a threat against Caucuses for Russia to consider while Germany builds up its land forces.

On land, Germany can outbuild the Allies in Europe (counting TRN loads) for the first 3-5 turns at a minimum (depending on specific Allied moves and losses)
At sea and in the air, Germany is outbuilt by the Allies from UK1 forward.
Play to your STRENGTHS, not your weaknesses.

[squirecam]

@ncscswitch:

Play to your STRENGTHS, not your weaknesses.

By building a navy ,we ARE.

Squirecam

[Guest]

For 1 AC to reinforce the Baltic, yes you are.

For the attempted fleet unification, no you are not.

[goldenbearflyer]

@ncscswitch:

For 1 AC to reinforce the Baltic, yes you are.

For the attempted fleet unification, no you are not.

I felt that, in theory, fleet unification would help my fleet survive longer, but in practice (setting aside the fact that I failed to unify) I believe it hastened my defeat on land.  Either leaving the small fleet in the Baltic to slow down Allied reinforcements to Russia or aggressively attacking the Allied navy in the Atlantic/North Sea would seem to have been preferable, in hindsight.

In the game I was playing, I was wiped out by combined UK/US forces, don’t remember which turn, after a successful invasion of Normandy by the Allies, an unsuccessful counter-attack on my part, and an unsuccessful assault on WRus by my EEur big stack, which had been timed to occur on the same turn as Japan’s attack from Novo into Russia.  The latter also failed!  It may seem surprising, but Russia’s two big stacks were able to withstand the Axis attacks, and then my defeat was just a matter of time.  Japan resigned a couple of turns after Berlin fell, as the Allies held 8 VCs and there was no point in continuing.

Nevertheless, the game was fun and I learned a lot.  I’m not giving up on playing Germany, and hopefully next time I will have learned a thing or two.  I’ve been reading the Caspain Sub policy papers; some of those strategies would work well against a newbie friend I have, but I assume experienced players around the forum are quite familiar with effective Allied responses.

[Guest]

Golden’s expereince is pertty typical.

Without some strong dice, or without the Allied player ALLOWING it, a German fleet unification is risky at best, suicide for the fleet at worst.  And the gain is minimal in terms of bossint your Med Fleet, and it costs you all of your protection in the Baltic.

We’ve gone over these numbers in other threads, and the “Fleet” unifcation ends up being 2 or 3 ships when they finally meet in SZ7.  And then they need to flee back to the Med from SZ7.

And don;t you START with 2 ships in the Med?  And you had to BUILD one in the Baltic to start.  So why not just BUILD in the Med to get 3 ships guaranteed isntead of doing the whole fleet unifcation attempt if you want 3 ships in the med?  Let the baltic fleet do what damage it can to the UK fleet, use the Med Fleet as long as it lives, and build INF/ART/ARM which is where Germany’s MAIN STRENGTH is.

[goldenbearflyer]

OK, I started a new game with the idea that I would try the Land Bridge strategy and buy 3trn G1.  This game is bit different because I am playing the Axis against my son who is playing the Allies.  Even though I suck at Axis, he is not very experienced, so I am coaching him a bit plus I let him have 1 NA for each Allied nation, whereas I got nothing (no NA, no bid).

I think I immediately made a mistake, as I bought 3trn but no ground units G1.  Since Land Bridge would happen G3 if at all, I guess my oversight doesn’t really matter too much.

I thought given his newbie status (he had played the Hasbro PC v1.3 a few times) it would be unfair to humiliate him, so I shot myself in the foot a bit by giving him clues.

Son (UK1):  “I don’t know what to buy.”
Dad:  “What’s your overall strategy?”  (I had given him a general overview of KGF/KJF/)
Son:  “KGF.”
Dad:  (Cursing to myself)  “OK, well do you see any threats on the board?”
Son:  “Not really.  You don’t have any transports.  Oh, except for that one down here.” [Med]
Dad:  “I don’t?  What did I buy?”
Son:  “I don’t remember.  Um, oh yeah, destroyers.”
Dad:  (Sigh) “No, remember I told you they were…”
Son:  “Oh.  Transports? … (thinking, thinking) I guess I’ll buy 8 infantry and 1 tank.”
Dad:  (Dang!) “OK.” (Big sigh)

So, with a bit of prompting, even a 12-year old can see it coming.  What the heck, he didn’t buy naval units, so my fleet is much stronger than his!  I will sink the Royal Navy and wreak havoc.

Then on US1 he bought 1AC, 1ftr, 1sub, 2inf and moved DD SZ20 to SZ10 and BB,trn SZ55 to SZ20.  This will not be easy.

Here’s the funny part:  J1 I sent 4inf 2ftr 1bom against China and failed to take it.  I kid you not.  I completely whiffed on my first attacks, and he rolled 3 hits.  Unwilling to lose aircraft, I eventually lost 4 inf despite killing all his units.  My Japan got off to the worst start ever.

He’s only 12, I can still win this, right?! :lol: :roll: :-o :x

[OutsideLime]

I guess I’ll buy 8 infantry and 1 tank.

Unless he started with the Colonial Garrison NA, your son will not be able to place 9 units on UK1.  The United Kingdom complex can only produce up to 8 units per round.

~Josh

PS - Let him win, he’s only 12.  Plus, then he’ll want to play again!  :-D

[goldenbearflyer]

@OutsideLime:

I guess I’ll buy 8 infantry and 1 tank.

Unless he started with the Colonial Garrison NA, your son will not be able to place 9 units on UK1. The United Kingdom complex can only produce up to 8 units per round.

~Josh

PS - Let him win, he’s only 12. Plus, then he’ll want to play again! :-D

Let him win so he’ll want to play again, my thinking exactly! But I wonder what he’ll do after I destroy the Royal Navy on G2; he may get discouraged.

Yes, he was smart enough to take Colonial Garrison and place the IC in India and reinforce it.  For Russia he took Non-Aggression Pact, which I think is a bit weak, but with 5inf in Bury (potentially 9 if J attacks it), J has only one path west, through China, which I somehow managed NOT to take J1.  Curses!  If not for those meddling kids…

[newpaintbrush]

@goldenbearflyer:

OK, I started a new game with the idea that I would try the Land Bridge strategy and buy 3trn G1.Â

I think I immediately made a mistake, as I bought 3trn but no ground units G1.  Since Land Bridge would happen G3 if at all, I guess my oversight doesn’t really matter too much.

1.  3 trn no ground is not Caspian Sub Land Bridge.  Ground is pretty essential.
2.  You killed the US fighter in China.  That’s the really important part.  Not taking China is not that important.
3.  You can potentially follow up with G2 5 x transports.
4.  Why didn’t he see the transports on the Baltic?  You did place them?

[goldenbearflyer]

@newpaintbrush:

@goldenbearflyer:

OK, I started a new game with the idea that I would try the Land Bridge strategy and buy 3trn G1.

I think I immediately made a mistake, as I bought 3trn but no ground units G1.  Since Land Bridge would happen G3 if at all, I guess my oversight doesn’t really matter too much.

1. 3 trn no ground is not Caspian Sub Land Bridge. Ground is pretty essential.
2. You killed the US fighter in China. That’s the really important part. Not taking China is not that important.
3. You can potentially follow up with G2 5 x transports.
4. Why didn’t he see the transports on the Baltic? You did place them?

1.  Uh, heh heh, yeah, I screwed up.
2.  I hope you’re right; every IPC counts for the Axis.
3.  I’m not going that route now; UK totally fortified its island.
4.  I used a marshalling card and I made a point of explaining what I was doing.  I think his mind was elsewhere. :roll:  I made sure he knew they were there before his UK1 purchase.

Our mistakes may cancel each other out, and we have a decent game going.

OK, here is one problem I have with the Land Bridge policy paper:  it advocates attacking Egypt with 1inf 1arm 1-2ftr 1bom.  I used 1inf 1arm 2ftr 1bom, but please, it is fairly likely UK will score 2 hits, so not taking Egypt is a very real possibility.  I happened to roll poorly, so not only did I fail to take Egypt, I kiiled only 1inf.  Now his arm, ftr and even DD can escape.  I’m NOT complaining about bad rolls, I’m saying one has to EXPECT some bad results and plan accordingly.  Remind me again how that “attack” is helping Germany?!

[newpaintbrush]

@goldenbearflyer:

OK, here is one problem I have with the Land Bridge policy paper:  it advocates attacking Egypt with 1inf 1arm 1-2ftr 1bom.  I used 1inf 1arm 2ftr 1bom, but please, it is fairly likely UK will score 2 hits, so not taking Egypt is a very real possibility.  I happened to roll poorly, so not only did I fail to take Egypt, I kiiled only 1inf.  Now his arm, ftr and even DD can escape.  I’m NOT complaining about bad rolls, I’m saying one has to EXPECT some bad results and plan accordingly.  Remind me again how that “attack” is helping Germany?!

Caspian Sub Paper #11:

“2. I love the idea of uniting the fleet, but won’t I need the Med fleet in Anglo Egypt on round one?
It’s all about the bid, Baby!  Put at least one unit in Libya (and a tank in Algeria if the bid is at least 8).  At a minimum you should have 2inf 1tnk 1ftr 1bmr.  That’s a 93% win for taking the land at all costs (to close the Suez).  And heck, you may not even care if you close the Suez.  If the Indian fleet comes through the canal, you can still unite the fleets in Z07 and kill the fleet when it comes west.  Japan will then have an easier game.”

–

lol

[goldenbearflyer]

@newpaintbrush:

@goldenbearflyer:

OK, here is one problem I have with the Land Bridge policy paper:  it advocates attacking Egypt with 1inf 1arm 1-2ftr 1bom.  I used 1inf 1arm 2ftr 1bom, but please, it is fairly likely UK will score 2 hits, so not taking Egypt is a very real possibility.  I happened to roll poorly, so not only did I fail to take Egypt, I kiiled only 1inf.  Now his arm, ftr and even DD can escape.  I’m NOT complaining about bad rolls, I’m saying one has to EXPECT some bad results and plan accordingly.  Remind me again how that “attack” is helping Germany?!

Caspian Sub Paper #11:

“2. I love the idea of uniting the fleet, but won’t I need the Med fleet in Anglo Egypt on round one?
It’s all about the bid, Baby! Put at least one unit in Libya (and a tank in Algeria if the bid is at least 8). At a minimum you should have 2inf 1tnk 1ftr 1bmr. That’s a 93% win for taking the land at all costs (to close the Suez). And heck, you may not even care if you close the Suez. If the Indian fleet comes through the canal, you can still unite the fleets in Z07 and kill the fleet when it comes west. Japan will then have an easier game.”

–

lol

Aarrgghh, I do not like those assumptions about the bid, especially for “newbies” like my son and I (although I don’t consider myself a true newbie).  So, Land Bridge should not even be considered if you have no bid?  I know that’s not what was said, but without the extra troops from a bid, the attack on Egypt makes little sense.

[newpaintbrush]

@goldenbearflyer:

Aarrgghh, I do not like those assumptions about the bid, especially for “newbies” like my son and I (although I don’t consider myself a true newbie).  So, Land Bridge should not even be considered if you have no bid?  I know that’s not what was said, but without the extra troops from a bid, the attack on Egypt makes little sense.

A bid is pretty standard for MOST experienced players, whether casual or tournament.  This is because a well-coordinated Allied plan is very very difficult for the Axis to beat.  (Personally, I think it’s impossible for the Axis to win without a bid, unless the Axis have a good bit of luck somewhere - or unless they really flog the V2 plan, which is not really fun for either player).

Also, you must read the instructions!  Didn’t you hear about what happened to the evil genius that started assembling his Supreme Weapon of Doom without first checking the manual?  After seventy hours of work, he found that he had assembled Barbie’s Super Deluxe Mansion (which made his daughter very happy, but she never DID find the lid to that pot in the Barbie kitchen . . .)

If you have no bid, you almost have to run the Med fleet to Anglo-Egypt.  I think I just did a writeup on this, actually.  how convenientz0rz.

[frood]

You know, as newbies, I’d say just start playing the game. Make mistakes, and you’ll learn what’s useful, what’s vulnerable, etc. Just have fun with it and get into deeper analysis once you have the “feel” of the game.

[goldenbearflyer]

newpaintbrush:  If you have no bid, you almost have to run the Med fleet to Anglo-Egypt.  I think I just did a writeup on this, actually.  how convenientz0rz.

Right.  But I really liked the effects of the G1 attack on SZ13 and Gibraltar.  Yep, a bid in Libya would have been nice.  Yes, I am of course following your other thread; please see my latest question there.

What is “convenientz0rz”?  I seem to recall seeing that “z0rz” text in other posts of yours.  Is it part of an emoticon gone bad?

frrodster:  You know, as newbies, I’d say just start playing the game. Make mistakes, and you’ll learn what’s useful, what’s vulnerable, etc. Just have fun with it and get into deeper analysis once you have the “feel” of the game.

Yep, that’s the approach I’m taking - just having fun.

I think my son will want to try the Axis next, because he was complaining that I started with so many units on the map; then I would definitely offer him a bid plus NA, because otherwise no way would he have a chance.

At any rate, tonight I look forward to destroying the puny Royal Navy and crushing Karelia; then Japan will take Hawaii, and I’ll see how he reacts! :evil:

[newpaintbrush]

@goldenbearflyer:

newpaintbrush:  If you have no bid, you almost have to run the Med fleet to Anglo-Egypt.  I think I just did a writeup on this, actually.  how convenientz0rz.

Right.  But I really liked the effects of the G1 attack on SZ13 and Gibraltar.  Yep, a bid in Libya would have been nice.  Yes, I am of course following your other thread; please see my latest question there.

Yeah, that Gibraltar attack is pretty sweet.  But it does run into a flexibility problem; namely, it is THEORETICALLY possible to unite the German fleet on G2, but PRACTICALLY, it is pretty difficult depending on the Allied air/navy.

What is “convenientz0rz”?  I seem to recall seeing that “z0rz” text in other posts of yours.  Is it part of an emoticon gone bad?

It’s like Pig Latin for l33tspeak.  (Leetspeak is writing with numbers instead of letters, and making obscure references that are “kewl”.  Basically, you pop “z0rz” on to something, and make it l33tspeak.  L0lz0rz.

frrodster:  You know, as newbies, I’d say just start playing the game. Make mistakes, and you’ll learn what’s useful, what’s vulnerable, etc. Just have fun with it and get into deeper analysis once you have the “feel” of the game.

Yep, that’s the approach I’m taking - just having fun.

I think my son will want to try the Axis next, because he was complaining that I started with so many units on the map; then I would definitely offer him a bid plus NA, because otherwise no way would he have a chance.

At any rate, tonight I look forward to destroying the puny Royal Navy and crushing Karelia; then Japan will take Hawaii, and I’ll see how he reacts! :evil: